4 Color CoCo-Vial Allies (69-68-4 match record)

Modern Salad_Thunder

SCORE: 56 | 62 COMMENTS | 11943 VIEWS | IN 28 FOLDERS


shadow63 says... #1

Looks solid +1 I'd add in some more removal maybe o ring

January 19, 2016 11:54 a.m.

Salad_Thunder says... #2

Thanks for the upvote and suggestion shadow63. I've been wondering about more removal/control. In my Bogles deck I would also run two Suppression Fields main-deck because it only stopped my fetches. (I also sometimes ran 2 Skites main-deck if lots of people were running infect.) However, putting Suppression Field in this deck in messes up both my fetches and Vial. It would also increase my chance of a CoCo-whiff unless I replace the Scales. The engineered explosives I faced the other day still makes me think about it though.

I also experimented with Pithing Needle at one point with Bogles (naming exarch, lili, plating, skite,or inkmoth depending on the match-up). I like needle in that it's only 1 mana, and that I can cast it proactively in game 2 or 3. O-ring is nice, but the three mana makes me a bit leery of it. I'll pick a card the next time I play and imagine I've put that in for it though.

I think I'm also going to update the Nature's Claim in my board to Natural State now that Twin is gone.

January 22, 2016 2:10 p.m.

JLenzen says... #3

My only suggestion would be to replace Hardened Scales with 2 land, or 1 land and something else. I don't think having 2, especially when they're best in your opening hand, is worth it.

As to your comment, your deck is definitely varied and documented well enough that I would include it in the primer. I'll keep in mind for the next time I update it (The code for the deck is huge, so even small changes require a fair amount of time).

January 22, 2016 4 p.m.

ehuez says... #4

great deck! I would just replace Nature's Claim for Natural State and I think you should consider mainboarding Captain's Claws.

January 22, 2016 7:47 p.m.

shadow63 says... #5

Yeah I know oring is a bit high at 3 cmc but it can hit anything but maybe Journey to Nowhere would fit better

January 22, 2016 9:08 p.m.

Salad_Thunder says... #6

Thank you all for the comments!

ehuez - Just got all of my oath cards in and made both those changes. With twin gone, are there any 4 CMC enchantments or artifacts this deck needs to worry about (for the Natural State)? And the more I think about Captain's Claws and Hardened Scales, the more I prefer the former. Only put two right now (no room!), so we'll see if I get them up this week or not.

JLenzen - I'll be trying the Captain's Claws in place of the Hardened Scales this week. Additional land isn't out of the question, but I'm still weighing how much I dislike mulliganing (28% for 19 vs. 22% for 21) against how much I dislike hitting a land pocket later in the game.

shadow63 - Not sure I want more creature removal, but I do sometimes wish I had Natural State in there mainboard. Just not enough to go beyond the 3 control cards so far.

January 25, 2016 10:49 p.m.

Steinbaum says... #7

I havent seen this take on the allies deck before. I like it alot!!

I just bought my very first modern decks in a budget version. Naya allies. Your list looks super tuned and your discription is very well written. So you got alot of experience with the deck.

May i ask some questions?

If im gonna upgrade my budget deck, should i first buy the 4x AEther Vial or 4x Cavern of Souls ?

Is Captain's Claws not too slow for this deck? Or does it only work if you combine it with the vial, so you dont lose too much tempo?

What are the most important SB cards? How could i replace Spellskite

By going 4 Colors, do you never run in to any mana problems?

If you got no time to answer my questions, no problem :) looking forwart to play a similar deck! Sorry for my english.

+1 for sure and good luck at upcoming tournaments

February 22, 2016 12:07 p.m.

Salad_Thunder says... #8

Steinbaum, thanks!

It looks like there are three flavors of Akoum Battlesinger+Collected Company Ally decks floating around: Aether Vial, Hardened Scales, and neither. The first and last have several results in mtgtop8, and the middle one did well at a GP and has many fans on tappedout. Almost all of them use 4 Cavern of Souls. I've tried the other two and they just never quite did it for me -- but you can certainly get a feel for how allies can synergize without using vial.

I find that having the Caverns, Ally Encampment, and Windswept Heath in the lands (and Harabaz Druid and AEther Vial in the spells) even lets me usually get away with 19 lands without regretting too much (at least no more than I regret running more lands and having the CoCos fail or hitting land pockets). But the only non-GW I need is the single one for the Akoum Battlesinger and the Jwari Shapeshifter. If I wanted non-creature R or U spells, or creatures that needed RR or UU, then I think I would run into more trouble. Without vial I think you would want to run a land or two more. I might just have been lucky against Blood Moon so far and either gotten a basic land naturally, had the Vial or Harabaz out, or remembered to immediately fetch for a basic land. If I ran into it more often, I might want a few more basics.

I think AEther Vial and Hardened Scales are designed to give you explosiveness if you get them in play early. You rarely want Vial late, and I was almost never happy getting a late Scales. So I think you need enough of them in your deck to make the chance of getting the big boost from the early one outweigh the displeasure of the late draw. Captain's Claws seems to fill an entirely different spot -- it's for when you have three mana on the board and an ETB benefiting attacker out. It can be huge if you didn't get your turn 3 or turn 4 kill. I was skeptical about it before I started playing, but now I like it enough that I used it to replace the two Scales I used to run (and I'm not anti-scales in general, I have several EDH decks that love the card).

The big reason I have the Spellskite is because of infect. The match-up is not in our favor without them in game one (although you can definitely still get a win if your draw is better than theirs), but I think it turns in our favor with the skites in. If Bogles were around that would be another reason to definitely want them, and there are a few other times I've found myself putting them in. If you can't afford Skites and there are regular infect players in your meta, then maybe play Vines of Vastwood (you need to figure out the timing of when to do it) or something that gives a fog effect?

Ondu Cleric is huge against other aggro decks and some burn decks (Merfolk players don't have a good answer, and you can get ridiculous amounts of life with them + Jwari Shapeshifter and either Coco or Vial).

You need something against Affinity. If you aren't running Vial, then Stony Silence might be best. With Vial, I've been running Kataki. I haven't had enough matches against it to figure out if my record against it (fairly even) is a fluke or not.

Natural State is needed against Torpor Orb and the like (and used to get boarded in against Twin). If you think someone will be playing Worship though, then you need to go back to using Nature's Claim so that you can still get it.

Hope that helps! My win percentage isn't high enough that I'm totally happy with the deck, so I'd love to hear what you find works for you. (And your English seemed fine to me.)

February 22, 2016 8:50 p.m. Edited.

Steinbaum says... #9

Thanks alot! Youre helping alot! :)

For now i cant afford caverns and vials.

So i think im gonna stick to creatures.. More with 3cmc, like you told.

What do you think, could i play 4 colors without 4 caverns? I would love to play Jwari Shapeshifter I dont wana play him turn 2 anyways. Most of the time i guess.

Or is it better to stay on naya colors for the budget version?

February 23, 2016 3:40 a.m.

Salad_Thunder says... #10

Steinbaum, I don't think I would try a fourth color without at least two Caverns and four Encampments. If you had two Caverns, I think you could try running a fourth color, with maybe something like Mana Confluence or City of Brass in place of the third and fourth. Nef regularly tries out lots of things in his Allies deck Unity, and is currently using WURG right now with two Caverns and no Vials. So I might be being too pessimistic.

February 23, 2016 10:36 a.m. Edited.

Steinbaum says... #11

Im gonna try to go 4 Colors without the caverns. Gonna see if it was a mistake.I have two cards, that im thinking about adding to my version of the deck.What are your thoughts about those two:

Ojutai's Command

Unified Front

About the second: i just would love to get 4 trigger and having Akoum Battlesinger on the field..

The command is in the deck of Nef (dont know how to link the users name) If you can get back the battlesinger at instant speed and any of the other actions from the command, could be awesome.

Im also gonna try to put more Firemantle Mage in my Sideboard, to get evasion against eldrazi decks. Do you have any plans how to beat those eldrazi decks?

February 24, 2016 10:44 a.m.

Salad_Thunder says... #12

I only run 1 blue making land now + Harabaz Druid, so Ojutai's Command would be hard for me to cast. If you're running more, it seems worth trying. And four would tie it and Unified Front with CoCo as my most expensive cards.

I think our only affinity player switched to Eldrazi, so I might take out the two Kataki tonight and put two Firemantle Mage in. Right now my only plan is to hope I get good draws and they don't :-\

February 25, 2016 4:51 p.m.

Steinbaum says... #13

Hey there

So i had my first matches and it was a blast. No one was expecting my allies to beat those eldrazi decks!

I just want to talk with you about the changes i made.

First i tried a naya list. Simple and pretty strong. But some games i just was to slow. I played with Harabaz Druid and Mirror Entity I had no AEther Vial and i tried Captain's Claws

I feel the claws, the druid and the entity are to slow for the deck and for the meta at my local store.I went 3-3 with the naya version at a big prize pool tournament. 22 of 42 people. I never played 1 modern game before that day!

Next i tried a very similar list to yours. Just added Unified Front and Ojutai's Command I went to a smaller tournament and it went pretty well again. 2-2 I won alot of games against eldrazi and Firemantle Mage helps alot in that match up.Pretty much every game i won, was very fast. So i looked at the key cards that make it so fast. I was stoked at the power of Unified Front as a finisher. 3-4 triggers in t4 can be insane.

Ojutai's Command was underwhelming.

Now i orderd my playset of AEther Vial.I test a list with 2 Unified Front and 2 Reckless Bushwhacker

The bushwhacker can also win games in t4 or t5 It can give a two drop haste, witch can be insane!

Greetings stein

March 6, 2016 11:47 a.m.

Steinbaum says... #14

Ahh and i maybe gonna test Riders of Gavony in the sideboard against eldrazi. I have alot humans!

March 6, 2016 11:50 a.m.

Salad_Thunder says... #15

Steinbaum Awesome! I will have to take a look at Unified Front and Reckless Bushwhacker (and I'd never seen the Riders before... although not being Coco-able is sad).

What lands are you using right now? (How many colors do you usually have for the Unified Front?)

I think the strength of the Harabaz Druid is the Coco on turn 3, or on turn 4 in addition to casting something else (so I almost always make it what I cast on turn 2).

The thing that's causing me more problems than the Eldrazi, are all of the decks and sideboards that have come out of the woodwork to fight them (a turbo fog decks, ensnaring bridges everywhere...). I took a break this last week to run elves since the Shaman of the Pack gets by those. I'm thinking of playing that until the bans come out in April (I've gotten Craterhoof Behemoth out on turn four or five with it a few times, which was kind of nice).

March 7, 2016 1:01 a.m.

Ulturas says... #16

I like how the meta is just shifting into aggro decks to beat Eldrazi kinda makes me laugh. Glad I got in just in time with G/W Hatebears, so good in this meta!

Just wanted to comment and +1 saying this is really well put together man I've never really seen any good Ally Competitive decklists. Kinda makes me wanna make allies haha.

March 7, 2016 9:59 p.m.

Saljen says... #17

What about Hardened Scales? Seems very beneficial for Allies. I'd suggest replacing Captain's Claws for Hardened Scales.

April 6, 2016 7:44 p.m.

Salad_Thunder says... #18

Saljen - thanks for looking over my list!

I originally had hardened scales in there and it wasn't bad. I list it as something worth considering instead of the Claw's, Mirror Entity, or Path (which are kind of flex spots).

I find I don't want to cast scales on turn 1 if I have an Aether Vial, and I don't want to cast it on turn 2 if I have Harabaz Druid. When I do get it out though, it certainy does make my +1/+1 counter guys get obnoxious, and can be helpful against burn. But it only helps around 12 of my 28 creatures. (Possibly more if I copy one with Jwari, less if I've sideboarded out an Oran-Rief or two).

Captain's Claws on the other hand doesn't have as large an upside for +1 counter making (only one extra on each per turn), but it also triggers Battlesinger and Evangel. And those are the cards that really seem to make the deck sing. It also makes another body, and helps rebuild the board faster after a creature-wipe.

It looks in like a lot of decks from tourney results that run Hardened Scales do it instead of running Aether Vial -- and I'm a big fan of the Vial. I wonder if I was going the scale route if I'd want to consider ditching blue for black, to get Drana and the Brigand. I'm also tempted to see how Humans would work as a scales base given some of the cards in the new set.

April 6, 2016 10:43 p.m.

loxo says... #19

I love allies, nice build! What do you think about one or two of Reckless Bushwhacker?

Do you think that new allies will be printed in the new set?

April 23, 2016 4:28 a.m.

Salad_Thunder says... #20

loxo, thanks!

Anything like looks vaguely like Akoum Battlesinger definitely deserves a look.The problem with Reckless Bushwhacker for this build is that it doesn't get its bonus when it Coco's or vials in, or when another ally enters after it. Being a 2/1 with haste is fine but I'm having trouble seeing what I would sub out for it.

Maybe there is a RW version (using bloodmoon and bolts?) that could be fun?

Unfortunately, so far allies look pretty much limited to Zendikar. So I'm worried that they'll get a lot fewer potentially helpful cards over the years than some of the other tribes (like Elves).

April 23, 2016 8:08 p.m.

loxo says... #21

That's definitely true, unfortunately it doesn't work well with the vials and coco's. I tried two off them and when I was able to cast them with surge it was crazy effective, but often I did not have a one drop spell and it was stuck in my hand..

What do you think of a Boros Charm instead of 1 Captain's Claws? It protects you from board wipes and can give the unblocked ally double strike, or just to do the final 4 damage to finish. And I think you should have a Return to the Ranks in your sideboard, to put in second game when opponents tend to put in more removal and boardwipes. This card has done wonders for me!

Lastly, Drana, Liberator of Malakir what you think of her? It's too bad that wizards of the coast most likely won't create many allies, because I feel that this deck needs just 1 or 2 good ally cards to make it tier 1?

April 24, 2016 7:46 a.m.

Salad_Thunder says... #22

loxo, I think Boros Charm is great for Naya Allies. The problem with it here is that I only run one red source, so that I make sure I can always get the green (for CoCo) and white (for the sideboard cards). In a build with more red, I think they would at least make the sideboard, if not the mainboard.

I almost put Return to the Ranks in my sideboard for today (went with Eerie Interlude, Mark of Asylum, and Worship -- drew the later two at some poitns), and I really need to try it out in some of our weekly tournaments.

I have the urge to try an Abzan allies with Drana, Liberator of Malakir, I just need to convince myself that there is life beyond Akoum Battlesinger.

April 24, 2016 9:05 p.m.

Might I suggest running Cloudshift? It isn't a bad card with abilities like rally and so forth, and if an opponent targets it with a 'destroy effect, you can exile the target, then un-exile it, making it an illegal target. lol

June 2, 2016 6:11 a.m.

Salad_Thunder says... #24

euananddalesaccount - I've tried Cloudshift with a previous version of the deck, and it never seemed as good as having some straight side-board type cards in. So back when twin was in, I ran three paths. With the eldrazi and all of the ensnaring bridges I wanted enchantment removal. Now that the meta is all over the place, I don't know if I'd want that in my main-board necessarily, but I'll definitely think about giving it a try in my sideboard along with Eerie Interlude. (Interlude helps against global board wipes too, but sitting on three mana is harder). Thanks for the suggestion!

June 17, 2016 11:21 a.m.

What is the cover art for this deck, what card I mean.

December 12, 2016 1:04 a.m.

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