NarejED runs Linvala in his list along with Elesh. However, he is currently playtesting Jin-Retainer combo and took out Living Plane and Sakashima the Impostor. Should Living plane be put back in?

And I'm going to have to agree with the guy named after my favorite fruit, p0megranates, y'all crazy.

Lilbrudder: Hey! That card is 50 cents. Why are you telling people about it?

I've been saying this is great card for years. Nobody's listened to me, and I'd rather keep it that way. ;)

thegigibeast: Hope of Ghirapur is definitely going in Edric. (That really should have been the first thing I thought of, actually.) The fact that you don't need to tie up blue mana to cast it makes it strictly better than your average flying men, even if you don't plan on using the ability often.

After browsing the interwebs, it seems it's also great in Alesha, Feldon, and Ayli.

In other news, our cycle of mono-colored legends is complete with Kari Zev, Skyship Raider:

Who will be relegated straight to T5. Her expertise card is pretty lackluster as well. Sad, I always try to be optimistic about new mono-red commanders, and Pia was such a disappointment as a card...

At 2 mana she might make it into the 99 of Purphoros, but I really don't see a reason to play her over Goblin Rabblemaster or Hanweir Garrison.

There hasn't been that much else worthwhile in the spoilers, but what do people this of Lifecrafter's Bestiary as a green draw engine? Seems super good to move through your deck in builds like Seton, Krosan Protector, Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro (How have we STILL not moved this up to T3?!?!?!), and Rishkar, Peema Renegade, and it might have potential in creature based competitive decks like Momir Vig and Animar.

NarejED, I'd vote against demoting Darevi just based on other T1 commanders out-playing her. T1 commanders are supposed to be able to play around each other, they're the best of the best. There's always going to be a low and a high within the tier. If we can find evidence of a significant portion of the T2 commanders being able to outperform her consistently, then it's probably time to demote her, but until then it wont really make or break anything if she stays in T1.

Also, check out what I found: Youtube Link, Deck Link.

I think Nin might be my new favorite home for Paradox Engine.

Previously, Nin's path to victory involved tutoring up the two card Rings of Brighthearth + Basalt Monolith combo, then using the infinite mana with Nin to draw your deck. With the addition of Paradox Engine however, all you need to do is tutor up the engine and have enough mana rocks to storm through your deck, significantly lowering the combo complexity.

The deck I linked isn't quite optimized, but it's good as proof of concept, and I'm going to make my own version over the next couple of days.

I think living plane is a must. Academy rector+eldritch evolution assembles living plane+linvala keeper of silence and eternal scourge+food chain. Evolution also serves as a food chain outlet as it can sac derevi to grab azami, which draws your deck. The primary sacrifice of a combo finisher is that its not practical to use cards like stasis and sphere of resistance since they require alot of build around to consistently break parity. The advantage is you can consistently end the game turns 4-7 while also slowing down the table considerably. I honestly dont know which build is better, but depending just on stax+beats without at least MLD+null rod seems questionable as a tier 1 strategy despite her speed and consistency.

I thought there were rules on that people couldn't apply for upvotes or downvotes in the tier list if they "own" and "play" the general, pointing at you narej with those countless of heavily price tagged decks you "have"...

but i can understand that it doesn't apply to the creators of the opinion list ... nonetheless Her status as being banned in french is quite the fact that she is tier 1 for most of what she does over there.... there is no point in arguing on that here, not that it matters, w/e happens with her on this list will not affect how she can invalidate every single commander on the list if she has her explosive early game right and proper piloting... as stax is also kind of meta dependant , anyway for most part narej's build is based on someone elses 1v1 and nowhere near perfected by its pilot, although those partial rules did hurt her as it hurted all others as well , equally as bad without a doubt...

for all that matters i'de love to see her drop to tier 2 on this list due to her higher 1v1 capabilities and reliance on meta. but do i even have a say in this ? xD

Man Paradox Engine simply seems really, really powerful. I am so happy I have been able to grab one in presale ;)

I mean, it goes into so many decks and make them better it is crazy. Almost every deck with a commander that can tap for an effect will want to run it, every deck that relies on mana rocks or mana dorks to produce most of its mana will want it too.

For example, I am definitely trying (and keeping it in) my pet deck, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth. It simply makes the deck that much better, even if it is entirely colorless. It will allow me to empty my hands quite often, for example cast Kozilek, draw 4 and untap my rocks, cast all the spells in my hands... infinite with Strionic Resonator, simply throw in Sensei's Divining Top to draw your entire deck with infinite mana available... Untaps your mama rocks that need to be untapped... It even makes me want to try some new cards, such as Batterskull, as it would produce infinite mana with it...

also for the time being is it allowed to post a decklist of someone elses tier 3 commander just for the sake of having them on your list if they are missing , as it can still change if someone has a better version ... and i like the idea of having actually a list of all of the commanders purely out of interest what people do with it ... candidates enough on this site for spots because i wouldn't like to see the same name a trilion times like now...

not so kind regards Kiyomei xxx

What's the deal with this Kiyomeii person? Is this serious or is he trolling us?

Noctem i'm sorry what is your problem ? if you want to start "troll" please go elsewhere ... no need for any childish behaviour here...

Do you think Inspiring Statuary could function as a rock in Kozilek as well?

Also, just incase you didn't realize, Ashnod's Altar will give you infinite draw in that scenario as well. As would Staff of Domination.

And even with out that you can use SR to copy Koz's draw trigger on the last copy of Paradox Engine's ability, then untap with the original PE trigger and copy Koz's trigger again, netting you infinite mana and 12 cards.

Well Kiyomeii, you sign your post with "Not so kind regards". You talk down to other people in this group. Your general attitude seems pretty poor. All of this is making me wonder what your problem is? Anyway I'll ignore you. GL HF.

Not so kind regard is merely a joke if you take that srs xp

np I'll block the likes of people like you xD no point in a trollerGF x.

Yeah, I bet you're joking now that you've been called out on it :) "it's just a prank bro!".

Anyway Paradox Engine is pretty sick I have to agree. I'm really curious how it will shape the meta if it gets picked up by as many decks as we think here. Anything with dorks, rocks, etc.. covers a pretty wide wedge. Maybe I should buy a few now :p

n0bunga is pirate tribal a thing yet?

called out Xd Kid get a grip please :)

love the new spoiler though Paradox Engine is quite beast if you keep chaining it somehow .

Hmm.. so a grixis commander to make it happen then.

Gonna be testing Engine in Azami and Yisan. Yisan seems spicy especially with the Regal Force draw engine or even elvish Visionary with Sabertooth

@Ohthenoises: Previously my list ran Living Plane. However, I found it to dead in hand far too often. Without Norn/Linvala or a way to immediately get them into play, LP is a dead card, not to mention it has bad synergy with a lot of other cards we play like Gaddock Teeg and Thorn of Amethyst. Even when a way to assemble the combo was available, it often wasn't the best line of play. With Derevi, you'll often find yourself in a situation where one or more player is threatening to combo off in the next turn cycle, forcing you to sandbag with the proper stax pieces rather than trying to immediately assemble your own win conditions. It's an unfortunate side effect of Partial Paris, which made the deck about a turn and a half slower on average. I swapped LP out for Jin-Retainers because at least it's a one-card combo when using Fauna Shaman or Survival of the Fittest. It suffers from a lot of the same problems as LP, namely running a card that's often dead in hand, but the benefits have thus far outweighed the downsides.

@sonnet666: True, there's always going to be some power difference within a Tier. However, in this case Derevi DOES perform on a level consistent with Tier 2. Currently she's roughly equal in power to Captain Sisay. Both are GW stax. Sisay sacrifices blue for a consistent tutor engine in the command zone that enables her wins. In competitive pods they have very similar overall win rates, that being low against top tier decks and moderate against tier 2 decks. Her remaining incorrectly in Tier 1 won't necessarily make or break anything, but it WILL be an obvious error to informed players looking at the tier list. We want the list to reflect the competitive EDH meta as much as possible.

@Noctem: Unfortunately he's serious. Kiyo came here a few months ago and started picking fights over Oona, Mizzix, and a few other commanders that he'd personally built and didn't like the tier placements of. It got bad enough at one point that a mod had to step in to delete comments and issue a few warnings.

@Kiyomeii: The rule exists primarily to keep people from advocating their own commanders be moved up. In the past, we've had issues with people getting extremely abrasive when discussing commanders they play, yourself included. Once a person demonstrates the ability to converse civilly and without much bias, they can largely ignore the rule.

NarejEDSince there a lot of tier 3 commanders are we going to vote/assign different decks for each commander? OR how will this process work.

NarejED well that explains it then, including the obvious animosity in his/her posts.

I find your point of view on Derevi interesting. Basically it sounds like the issue with having combo pieces like Living Plane in your deck is a double edged sword simply because of what you're attempting to do with your deck. Basically, you screw up everyone else trying to combo but simultaneously include yourself in the process. What about something like Beastmaster Ascension? In a creature heavy deck like ours, wouldn't it be easy to get the 7 quest counters immediately after playing it for surprise kills or to end the game? I saw it in the Edric list.

Ohthenoises I've already done a lot of rigorous testing with Paradox Engine in Azami, believe me, it's very worth it. It's not a replacement to Mind Over Matter, but if you have a way of getting engine from your library to battlefield, such as Whir of Invention or Transmute Artifact it's definitely a great card if you've got the rocks to back it up.

@ZomBee_Hunt: We'll add suitably optimized decklists for tier 3 commanders to the description as we find them. The best way to contribute in that regard is to find (or make) decks you believe to be viable candidates and link them here for review. The process is going to take quite a while due both to the size of tier 3 and the lack of competitive interest in them. It's likely that because of those factors, decks for tier 3 commanders will be held to a much lower standard.

@Noctem: Beastmaster Ascension is an alright option in Derevi. Elesh Norn fills its function better though.

I'm actually most excited to try it in Yisan.

Idk if I'd say that LP is completely dead, it prevents people from wrathing lest they Armageddon themselves

NarejED I would like to submit my Zedruu the Greathearted deck for consideration for that tier 3 spot. Zedr(YOU), Zed(WHAT). My meta is pretty competitive decks. There is a General Tazri going around, There is sidisi/ad nauseum combo, couple Jeleva storm decks. then also some random teir 2/3 generals

My build has been able to shut them down or at least keep up where its a grindy match up and not a quick one at all.

The deck is not quite complete just because LGS dont have the cards in stock and im too lazy to look online.

I also feel like Zedruu is an intersting deck in teh fact that I could not just hand the deck to someone and have them no what to do. I am always having people watch me and saying "How does zedruu win." and then I win and they didnt expect it.

NarejED and if it does get picked I can write up a better description then what is there now. :D