And this is how I learned Magic
The Kitchen Table forum
Posted on May 19, 2015, 9:28 p.m. by FAMOUSWATERMELON
So once upon a time, I thought that MTG was played this way: you could dump creatures from your hand without paying their mana cost, and that you had to pay mana costs only when they attacked. But now that's got me thinking for a new format:
All creatures are cast for 0 mana, but their CMC remains the same.
You must pay the mana cost of a creature to be able to declare that creature as an attacker: tokens would attack for free.
All "enter the battlefield" and "when you cast" effects on creature cards or which relate to creatures entering the battlefield or being cast are changed to "when that creature attacks."
All non-creature spells and lands are unaffected: you still have to pay their mana costs.
All other rules remain the same.
This would obviously create an entirely different style of gameplay, different archetypes, etc... What are some of them? And what else would make this format playable (such as starting life, deck size, etc...)?
Servo_Token says... #3
So you just play white? Tokens and Sphere of Safety seem great.
May 19, 2015 9:38 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #4
Guys, it's creatures. So no mass land destruction or free Sphere of Safety. And sure, you can dump a Spaghettis T1. But what are you going to do with him? He can't attack because you don't have the mana, he doesn't buy you an extra turn because you need to pay for it. Which is why I'm talking about an entirely different strategy.
May 19, 2015 9:40 p.m. Edited.
Right, Fling a Blightsteel Colossus turn 1 with a mountain and two Simian Spirit Guides. Boom.
May 19, 2015 9:46 p.m.
That wouldn't kill the opponent outright; Fling deals the damage, not Blightsteel Colossus. Since Fling doesn't have infect, the player doesn't receive poison counters, and would instead take 11. Good idea tho!
May 19, 2015 9:48 p.m.
Flinging a Wurmcoil Engine would also be fun... It's tokens could attack for free!
May 19, 2015 9:50 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #10
New Strategies :) That said, I could also make the starting life around 40. That would probably make it a T3-4 format.
May 19, 2015 9:56 p.m.
AwesomeName says... #11
Sounds like an interesting idea. It does seem though that there is some way to break it.
May 19, 2015 10:04 p.m.
I think creatures attacking becomes a near impossibility here; if I can drop a blightsteel for free and just let it sit there and block all day until I find a fling, why would my opponent ever pay their creature mana cost to attack? In general, I think something should be done about creature blocking rules...
May 19, 2015 10:04 p.m.
I thought about that, but I think if players have to pay to block and attack, doing anything gets costly very quickly... If I have four mana out and I want to both attack and be able to defend, my creatures have to be 1-3 CMC... Maybe lands untap during everyone's untap step and you pay to block as well as attack?
May 19, 2015 10:14 p.m.
jethstriker says... #18
One thing that immediately went through my mind is, if a player made an almost / all creature deck, then he could just dump all his creature in his opening hand if he goes first, then the other player would suddenly realize his discard spells like Thoughtseize or Inquisition of Kozilek would be a dead card. Discard spells would be useless in a almost / all creature deck.
May 19, 2015 10:31 p.m.
Speaking of things like discard spells... How would countering a creature work? If my opponent can drop four creatures T1 on the play, there is no way I can counter all of them. Or do creatures get countered when they're mana cost is paid, and if so, what happens if they're countered? Do they go to graveyard, or just fail to activate?
May 19, 2015 10:44 p.m.
hyperlocke says... #21
A deck without lands, with Llanowar Elves and their ilk. Drop your start hand of 5 mana dorks, 2 Priest of Titania and Ezuri, Renegade Leader.
Drop an Elf second turn. Priest of Titania produces 9x
. Pay 6x to attack with the dorks and Ezuri, activate Ezuri's ability twice. Boom, 43 trample damage incoming.
Seems slightly broken...
May 19, 2015 10:46 p.m.
But I mean, Glimpse of Nature, or even better, a free Primordial Sage OP. And then a Concordant Crossroads, and a Gaea's Cradle, Priest of Titania, Elvish Archdruid. And a Timberwatch Elf to bring it home.
Mulligan to Primordial, first turn win every time.
May 19, 2015 11 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #24
Alright, so Elves would be good :)
TehCoopeh, read the top, it's only when they attack that Glimpse of Nature comes into effect, same for Primordial Sage.
May 19, 2015 11:03 p.m.
Glimpse and Sage aren't enter the battlefield abilities. It's "when they're are cast" and you said creatures are cast for zero.
May 19, 2015 11:04 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #26
Read the third rule: "All "enter the battlefield" and "when you cast" effects on creature cards or which relate to creatures entering the battlefield or being cast are changed to "when that creature attacks.""
May 19, 2015 11:05 p.m.
So it's not casting it's just falling out of your hand? Making creatures uncounterable, too? Totally bonker format.
May 19, 2015 11:05 p.m.
Okay okay, new one.
Deck is Blightsteel Colossus, Autochton, Draco, Emrakul, Iname, blah blah all those creautes that cost 12 or more, Metamorphosis, Elvish Spirit Guide, Summoner's Pact, Concordant Crossroads, and a few lands to get by. Cast a Crossroads, throw down a blightsteel and anything else, metamorphosis the second creature, attack and infect win.
May 19, 2015 11:10 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #30
TehCoopeh Well you're still casting them, so technically it can still be countered. And of course this is a bonkers format :) That was the intention.
KillDatBUG You're going to have to be a tince bit more precise.
May 19, 2015 11:13 p.m.
Magic is already a complicated rule set for a game, my mind broke when you broke it on me. :P
May 19, 2015 11:14 p.m.
KillDatBUG says... #32
You want me to be more precise? Okay.
Step one: Cast Protean Hulk for zero.
Step two: Cast anything that allows you to sac it. Best one is Cabal Therapy.
Step three: Find 4 Disciple of the Vault, 4 Shifting Wall, and 4 Phyrexian Marauder. That, or find 4 Dryad Arbor, a Sakura-Tribe Elder, and 4 Hedron Crabs. It doesn't really matter what the combo pieces are; all that matters is that it's a consistent turn 1 or turn 2 kill.
May 19, 2015 11:20 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #33
KillDatBUG Hell, I'm surprised you didn't bring in something simpler, like the Twin combo... And once again, of course it's a T2 kill on a good draw. That's one of the reasons I thought of this format, after watching a nineteen turn Vintage game (klone13 can testify). That's part of the fun, and part of the challenge: your opponent will be able to pull that off too, and you will have to adapt. Just because you can win on T1 doesn't make something "broken." That would be broken in any other format, but this is not any other format. T1-T2 wins are the norm here, and I'm willing to bet that there are many ways to do it. The fun is making a deck that can both combo off AND prevent your opponent from comboing off. And in this format, no mana restrictions for abilities means that your inside Johnny is completely free :)
May 19, 2015 11:26 p.m.
SimicPower says... #34
Of course, a hefty banlist could stop a lot of the brokenness.
May 20, 2015 12:04 a.m.
Pretty much everyone I learned to play from has multiple pro points so there was never any confusion nor did I have a kitchen table phase lol
May 20, 2015 1:32 a.m.
KillDatBUG says... #36
No one would want to play a format where turn 1 or 2 wins are "the norm". You have to understand how unhealthy that would be for the game.
May 20, 2015 1:43 a.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #37
You would learn :) And I don't really understand how unhealthy it would be. You're trying to compare this format to others that already exist, probably Legacy and maybe Vintage. Don't do that, because this is an entirely different format. It's like comparing Legacy to Standard and saying that Legacy is "completely broken and unhealthy" because it can win on T3 whereas Standard usually wins in T6.
May 20, 2015 7:40 a.m.
SimicPower says... #38
The problem is that the point of this format is to pay creatures' mana costs when they attack instead of when they are cast, but all of the t1-2 wins win without attacking. They just abuse the "free creatures" aspect of the format, and don't care about attacking because they can just Fling.
May 20, 2015 11:59 a.m.
jandrobard says... #39
This basically screws over the combat phase in return for creating the feared "elven cheerios" deck.
Ruffigan says... #2
So you can just dump an Eldrazi or Colossus from your hand into play turn 1? Fling them for mass destruction?
May 19, 2015 9:38 p.m.