EDH Mana Base
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on July 6, 2018, 2:26 a.m. by runelord
In a casual EDH deck how many cards do you generally dedicate towards generating mana? I like to run 34 actual lands in all my decks and then use anywhere from 3-10 utility cards that fetch or ramp. Me and my buddy have very different opinions on it and I'm curious how the tapped out community feels. Generally we are playing with 5-6 people in some sort of free for all variant. It's also worth noting that none of us are super competetive and our games last at least 15+ turns.
It depends on a few factors:
-
What's your deck curve?
-
How many spells are you playing in a turn?
-
Do you have other cheat into play effects?
-
Do you need mana open for control?
generally I like to run anywhere between 34 and 37 lands (anything above that you start mana flooding) with anywhere between 10-15 ramp cards. One or two fo these can be Sylvan Scrying like effects, however I geenerally try to keep these to a minimum as tutoring and ramping are not the same thing. The whole point of ramping is to outpace your opponents and just putting cards in hand isn't good enough. It's for that reason I won't run cards like Yavimaya Elder or Realm Seekers outside of a land.dec build.
For competitive builds, I will go lower (I have a deck that runs 31 lands) however I will run a higher ramp count, generally all of which range between 0 and 2 mana (that deck runs 21 ramp effects). It also comes down to average CMC (again, that deck has an average CMC of ~1.76).
July 6, 2018 3:10 a.m.
I currently have three decks I use all three are on my profile. my average CMC's are 4.27, 3.77, and 3.26. They all have 34 land none of my decks are designed to play more than 2 spells a turn. I do use cheat effects like Quicksilver Amulet, the high cost deck doesn't use much control the mid range is more a pillow fort defense and the low cost has some control.
July 6, 2018 3:27 a.m.
I play similarly to you I think.
I tend to follow the structure I heard on Commanders Brew which is:
- 30 + CMC of your Commander (or highest between partners) + Number of colours of your Commander
Then around 10 slots for rocks / ramp / lands that do other things (e.g. Maze of Ith that doesn't produce mana). I'd agree with the above that if you use any rock with CMC >4 it better do something great! (Hedron Archive is a reasonable example, probably the bare minimum effect needed to include unless you're in ).
I always have to remind myself during the deck-building process that splashy awesomeness is awesome but without enough lands I'll never be able to play it anyway!
July 6, 2018 4:57 a.m.
Rabid_Wombat says... #6
i've got 37 Lands in all my EDH decks because I run Mox Diamond's ;)
July 6, 2018 5:46 a.m.
I follow a simple rule:
45 lands - the number of other sources of mana = actual lands you need.
So a GW deck with Llanowar Elves, 4 mana rocks, Avacyn's Pilgrim and 3 variants of Rampant Growth would be 45 - 4 - 1- 3 = 37 lands.
July 6, 2018 6:11 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #8
I usually run 47-50 total sources with 34-37 of those being lands. Usually I start at 36 land and 12 ramp/rocks/dorks and adjust from there depending on how the deck runs.
July 6, 2018 7:10 a.m.
it seems like most of you tend to lean towards close to 50% of your edh deck contributing to mana production in some way.
July 6, 2018 10:12 a.m.
Honestly I would try to avoid letting my average CMC creep that high.about 3.5 is where I try to keep it at worst. Otherwise it indicates that your deck is running too many top end spells and will most likely be lacking in support for said spells.
Also, while effects like Quicksilver Amulet and Elvish Piper are good, don't try to use these instead of ramp. Top end hear you decks that rely on cards like that are super weak to a single point of removal and heavily rely on those cards to make the entire deck work.
July 6, 2018 10:42 a.m.
RedUndead40 says... #11
My (and many others') general rule of thumb is to run 36 lands, 10 ramp cards (Chromatic Lantern, Rampant Growth, Wayfarer's Bauble, things like that), and 10 draw power cards.
Ramp is super important to get your deck running faster, but to make up for that you need to refill your hand to make use of all that mana, so draw power is really important.
These numbers can fluctuate depending on your deck or game plan. For instance my The Ur-Dragon deck runs closer to 20 ramp cards because it has a really high average cmc. As another example I have an Edric, Spymaster of Trest deck. Since my commander gives me reliable access to card draw I only run about 3-5 dedicated card draw options in the main deck, and only about 5 ramp cards because the deck runs really low cmc cards.
It can feel boring to add so many slots dedicated to just mana and card draw but I guarantee it will make your decks run much more efficiently and will make the decks more fun overall because you actually get to do what the deck wants to do.
July 6, 2018 10:48 a.m. Edited.
The aggregate of all of the responses thus far should provide good help in determining how to optimize building your mana base, as in my experience I've found that testing each individual deck's construction, after following all of the provided "rules of thumb" and checking the math for the specific mana curve of the deck, to all be extremely important, and no one rule of thumb or guideline will get you to the best optimization for your build.
An initial goal to shoot for is being able to cast your commander on or ahead of curve (i.e. - by turn 4 if CMC is 4, etc.), as no other card in your deck will be played as consistently, or relied on as heavily, as your commander. The previous suggestion regarding Commander Brew, starting at 30 lands, plus additional lands to cover your commander's CMC, plus an additional land for each color in the commander's identity, is one of the better "rules of thumb" I've seen for starting your build.
That said, testing your individual deck is always going to give you the best possible feedback, and the more testing the better. Tappedout provides some pretty great resources on each deck page, including the playtest option, the spell/land color wheel and the mana-curve graph. Once you've built your initial iteration of a deck, paying attention to these to achieve balance and using the playtest environment to confirm consistency will help you see what the basic math and deck building best practices can't tell you.
For example, I have 11 total EDH decks, all of which have been fairly well-tuned and play tested many, many times. The number of lands vary from deck to deck, with as few as 28 to as many as 36, based on mono-color, two-color and three-color decks. Including ramp and/or mana rock options (with CMC less than or equal to my commander's CMC), cards affecting my mana base total from 36 to 45 in these decks. For the average EDH deck, those numbers are, on average, almost certainly lower than would be expected to be optimal. Since most of my specific decks include dual lands, moxes, mana crypt, etc. to optimize early ramp and color fixing, I can get away with a slightly lower total, but that's not clear until I've play tested them enough to ensure I'm playing my commander on or ahead of curve 9 out of 10 times.
Initially, I'd err on the side of caution and build in such a way that I may be running too many lands, then playtest to confirm hitting my commander on curve without getting mana flooded. Just remember there is no one-answer - all of the above comments and examples will provide some value, and all combined will get you closer to the best option for your specific build. When in doubt, test your deck more. Happy Brewing.
July 6, 2018 11:53 a.m.
About 50% of the deck should be a mana source of some sort, with about 1/3 of the deck being actual land. So like a dozen to 15 ramp spells and about 33-35 land to start.
July 6, 2018 9:11 p.m.
vinterheart says... #14
I run a minimum of 35 lands, including the Ixalan flippy floppy lands, which are usually pretty consistent (Golden Guardian Flip, Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip)and excluding ones that don't produce mana (Maze of Ith, Eye of Ugin). Works pretty well for me, but I'd imagine that it might be a bother for others. Honestly I'd rather be screwed than flooded.
FancyTuesday says... #2
I aim for between 36 and 38 lands depending on how the deck is built, with about 10 pieces that ramp in one way or another, most of which should be CMC 3 or less and none of them over 4. CMC > 4 producers like Mirari's Wake or Nirkana Revenant are still fair play in appropriate decks, but I don't count them as being ramp slots.
My scheme's admittedly more mana-rich than most, but I find it absolutely crushing to miss a land drop in the first 3 or 4 turns. I tend to run more top-heavy decks and missing an early land drop can mean turns of playing draw/go.
For the record I play between casual and midrange, always multiplayer with preferably 4 but as many as 6 or few as 3 players. Our games tend to end between turns 8 and 12, occasionally more if we draw a lot of sweepers.
July 6, 2018 3:03 a.m. Edited.