FancyTuesday President of Calendars
It's worth pointing out that dies triggers do not work for commanders unless you choose to let them die instead of sending them to the command zone.
Not many commanders can take advantage of actually hitting the graveyard. It usually takes one of a very few abilities that give you another zone change like you see in the old titans, or a specialized deck built around a gimmick. You could try to make something happen with classic reanimation spells, but mono-red is particularly ill equipped to do that.
July 20, 2018 2:58 a.m.
Reading the rules of the format I feel this is something that will need to be addressed with special rules either from the person "maintaining" the format or the people playing the game. But here's my take on it:
Alternate win conditions do what many cards in MTG do: what the rules do not. When you your opponent's life total is 0 you've won because the rules say they lost. There's no rule that says "you win when you cast Coalition Victory", the card says that you win and the rules tell you what it means to "win" as a game action. Looking at the rules as presented I don't see anything that stops alternate win conditions from working, though technically speaking I don't think they play nicely with the "teams" Kingdoms sets up.
For the Knight to win the Knight and King must be the only two players alive. If the King "wins" outright and a Bandit is still alive the King wins and the game is over, the Knight's special win condition isn't satisfied. If one Bandit "wins" without causing the king to lose the other doesn't benefit because the game ended with the King still alive.
To avoid this you'd have to craft an additional rule that said something to the effect of "If an effect other than a game rule would cause a player to win the game, that player doesn't win the game" or create a ban list for these type of effects.
Here's the operative rule:
104.1. A game ends immediately when a player wins, when the game is a draw, or when the game is restarted.
July 20, 2018 12:48 a.m.
For starters, 39 land is a little heavy. I'd cut two and replace them with rocks, namely Jet Medallion and Charcoal Diamond. On the subject of lands, not sure why you're running Terramorphic in a mono-colored deck with no landfall triggers, I'd suggest you swap out for Bojuka Bog which gives you graveyard hate in a land slot. Cabal Coffers/Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth might break the bank for your acquire board but dang are they nice to have.
Lich's Mastery strikes me as very dangerous to run in self-described "suicide black." Half of your effects cause you to lose life, as does your Commander's triggered ability. There are only 7 cards that actually gain you life in this deck and I'd cut most of them. On that subject I'd cut Orbs of Warding; loss of life isn't damage and it won't stop you bleeding to your own effects. Pestilence does damage but it's not a creature.
Since Sanguine Bond doesn't really hit off anything in the deck except Gray Merchant I'd trade it for Whip of Erebos, gives you reanimation options and lifelink on everything to help with all the life loss.
Deadly Tempest seems more on-theme than Extinguish All Hope. You don't have so many creatures that it'll gouge you too hard, which also makes me question whether you're going to get much value from Dread Return.
Worn Powerstone over Darksteel Ingot, it curves into your commander a turn earlier and in mono color the has a lot more impact than "one of any color." Similarly, Thran Dynamo is a long stronger here than Gilded Lotus here.
Read the Bones over Dark Bargain. Bargain's over-costed for 2 cards, and it's hardly a "trick" you need to hold 4 mana open for. If you wanna play toward reanimator there are better ways in black to pitch creatures.
Cabal and Dark Rituals have their place in EDH, but it's usually in highly competitive decks where you need to go off on a combo by turn 4 or 5 and "burning out" doesn't matter. I suggest more long term benefit cards, draw engines or ramp.
I think that's enough for now. Hope some of it was helpful!
PS: You need to set the format to EDH instead of Standard, as is it blocks suggestions.
July 19, 2018 11:39 p.m.
From the Gatherer rulings of the card Spellbook:
If multiple effects modify your hand size, apply them in timestamp order. For example, if you put Null Profusion (an enchantment that says your maximum hand size is two) onto the battlefield and then put Spellbook onto the battlefield, you’ll have no maximum hand size. However, if those permanents entered the battlefield in the opposite order, your maximum hand size would be two.
July 18, 2018 12:53 p.m.
In cases where equipment gives creatures abilities like Paradise Mantle then timestamp order determines whether or not Chromium has the ability or not. I.E.: If you activate Chromium's ability then equip him he has the ability, if he's equipped and activates the ability he loses it.
In the case of Sword of Fire and Ice however some of the abilities belong to the equipment, not the creature, and layers keep the P/T buff because Chromium's ability sets base power and toughness. So Chromium would lose the color protections (depending on timestamp) but the Sword's triggers would still function.
July 17, 2018 10:23 p.m.
If your meta is "casual to still not really competitive" and you're playing heavily combo-oriented decks that can instantly go infinite (Mikaeus, Food Chain) or reliably tutor up combo pieces then go infinite (Overlord, Dagsson) then yeah, you're gonna attract a lot of groans. You'll either need to find a more competitive group to play with or downshift your style in a pretty major way.
I don't know how to pull punches in a combo build. Combo isn't so much a power gradient as it is a true/false, once it's true you've won and with that being the goal the rest of the deck and the decisions you make during the game only ever point toward achieving the combo. I guess you could deliberately limit yourself to non-game winning combos that allow your opponents to answer, or combos that require more pieces and run fewer tutors, but then you're building a deck that's bad at what it's designed to do.
"Synergy" is often placed opposite "combo" as a deck building philosophy, but in practice it's more like "limited combo." A solid synergistic deck will have a lot of pieces that play off of and enhance each other, giving you ever increasing value for the cards you play, they just don't do so infinitely.
Take Mikaeus for example. You could Mike n Trike people out, two cards everyone dies the end. Alternatively you could have Mikaeus and Phyrexian Plaguelord then drop Gray Merchant of Asphodel, hit everyone for 14 and gain 42 life. That's a huge blow that only gets worse with other pieces; throw in a Grave Pact and you could sweep the board and deal an even 20 each. It's functionally a "combo" in how devastating it can be, but since it has a defined ceiling and requires a bit more setup to get that kind of impact casual players generally respond more favorably to the latter. I also play in a rather casual meta and find the synergy approach to be a lot of fun.
The pothole of synergy is making sure your strategy can actually win. This is the problem in many mass land-D and "chaos" oriented decks; they can set up board states that don't really "close out" the game, they just lock players out and make the game go on forever.
tl;dr: Play bad, Rube Goldberg-style combos or heavy synergy.
July 17, 2018 3:33 p.m.
You are correct. "Casting" is a game action that takes a card from your hand and moves it to the stack, where it becomes a spell. In this case it's a creature spell, but it's still a spell. See for example: Remove Soul.
If however your friend put their creature onto the battlefield without "casting" it (for instance, with Quicksilver Amulet) then it wouldn't be a spell, it goes straight from their hand to the battlefield as the ability putting it there resolves.
July 17, 2018 2:47 p.m.
The key principle here is that all of these spells "kill" though game rules, not per instructions on the card. In Tarmogoyf's case it has a characteristic-defining ability that's relevant to those game rules because the spell's card must be placed in the graveyard as the final step of its resolution, and only then are SBAs checked.
If however we were dealing with Devour in Shadow Goyf is destroyed during the resolution of the spell before it hits the yard, and so a 2/3 Goyf with no instants in the graveyard is a 2/3 when it dies, and you lose 3 life to Devour in Shadow instead of 4.
I doubt anyone was lying, or that a judge would get this one wrong. More likely it was a misunderstanding born of a very specific scenario. Without details it's hard to say.
The best rules we can point to for understanding why this works the way it does is 704.3 and 604.1/604.3, the first already cited by cdkime. They say:
604.3 Some static abilities are characteristic-defining abilities. A characteristic-defining ability conveys information about an object’s characteristics that would normally be found elsewhere on that object (such as in its mana cost, type line, or power/toughness box) or overrides information found elsewhere on that object. Characteristic-defining abilities function in all zones. They also function outside the game.
704.3 Whenever a player would get priority (see rule 116, “Timing and Priority”), the game checks for any of the listed conditions for state-based actions, then performs all applicable state-based actions simultaneously as a single event. If any state-based actions are performed as a result of a check, the check is repeated; otherwise all triggered abilities that are waiting to be put on the stack are put on the stack, then the check is repeated. Once no more state-based actions have been performed as the result of a check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, the appropriate player gets priority. This process also occurs during the cleanup step (see rule 514), except that if no state-based actions are performed as the result of the step’s first check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, then no player gets priority and the step ends.
The 604s explain that Goyf's ability is instantaneous in the way it defines its power and toughness. There is no delay between the spell resolving and the Goyf's stats updating, no point at which the spell has "resolved" and Goyfs stats do not reflect the cards currently in the graveyard.
704.3 describes when SBAs are checked. This is when the relevant game rules would move the Goyf to the graveyard if those conditions are met. By the time the SBAs check the Goyf's toughness is high enough that no SBAs need to be taken.
July 17, 2018 2:15 p.m.
Damage and negative toughness do "kill" at the same time, they're both State Based Actions that happen whenever a player gains priority. The point of cdkime's citations is that they do so through different rules, not that one is "faster" than the other; damage "destroys" the creature while having 0 or less toughness moves it to the graveyard.
It's an important distinction to appreciate when interacting with certain other effects like regeneration or indestructible. It was probably in response to your original description that said Dismember "also" kills by lowering a creatures toughness, implying that Bolt lowered the targets toughness, which it doesn't.
July 17, 2018 1:08 p.m.
I feel that this question is one of algebra and not MTG rules.
Lightning Bolt deals 3 damage. The Goyf has 3 toughness. Per the resolution of Blot it is put into a graveyard. By the time SBAs are checked the Goyf has 4 toughness and 3 damage marked on it, it isn't destroyed.
Dismember gives a creature -5 toughness. The Goyf has 4 toughness. Per the resolution of Dismember it is put into the graveyard. When SBAs are checked the Goyf has 5 toughness with -5 toughness, totaling 0 toughness. It is moved to its owner's graveyard.
Had the Goyf been a 4/5 to begin with, toughness equal to Dismember's debuff as was the case with the Bolt scenario, the result would be the same as it was with the Bolt. Dismember resolves, making the Goyf a 5/6 with -5/-5, a 0/1 that remains on the battlefield.
July 17, 2018 1 p.m.
TappedOut's card database is maintained and updated manually by a very small staff, so there's always some lag between when a new set becomes tournament legal and when TappedOut's legality matrix reflects that fact.
TappedOut is not an authority on a card's banned status in any given format. In practice, it's safe to ignore "illegal card" errors from new sets for a week or two after its official release. If cards are still showing as "banned" after that window and you can't find evidence that it's banned from an official source it's then prudent to report the problem.
July 17, 2018 2:16 a.m.
Please use double brackets to link cards you're asking about. For further information check out the formatting tips page.
Safe passage will not save you from Greed's activation cost because Greed does not do damage, you pay life. Damage causes loss of life, but loss of life isn't damage. Furthermore, because the payment of life is in the cost side of the ability, if you can't pay the life because you don't have the life or something is preventing you from doing so (like say, Platinum Emperion) then you cannot activate the ability.
July 16, 2018 6:30 p.m.
July 16, 2018 1:18 p.m.
Negative. Firesong and Sunspeaker does not self-recur because both of its triggered abilities specifies instant and sorcery spells as part of the triggering condition. While Firesong and Sunspeaker is both red and white, it it's not an instant or sorcery, and it's not a spell (it's a permanent).
Anger of the Gods is red so it gains lifelink causing you to gain life, but it's not white so it doesn't trigger the 2nd part causing FSSS to deal damage.
July 15, 2018 3:43 p.m.
Web of Inertia doesn't use the word "target" so it doesn't target anything. Permanents can be chosen by players without being "targeted" as long as they're worded correctly, this is why you can Clone creatures with shroud.
Technically Web of Inertia creates a triggered ability that triggers at the beginning of your opponent's combat phase with an intervening if clause. It's not "an additional cost" as a term of art in MTG rules, though it acts similar to an additional cost. The trigger fires at the beginning of their combat step, they are given an option to do something (exile a card from their graveyard), if they don't they can't do something (attack you).
July 15, 2018 12:16 a.m.
I just wanna thank Gidgetimer for citing that rule, because I knew there was a succinct rule to that effect but I couldn't remember the wording to find it and it was driving me up the wall. In my head I was using the terms "permit/prevent" instead of "allow/can't".
July 10, 2018 9:09 p.m.
Abyssal Persecutor says "you can't win the game..." Nothing can cause you to win the game while you have Abyssal Persecutor in play. This is similar to controlling an effect that says "you cannot gain life" and playing a card that says "you gain X life."
From Abyssal Persecutor's Gatherer rulings:
No game effect can cause you to win the game or cause any opponent to lose the game while you control Abyssal Persecutor. It doesn’t matter whether an opponent has 0 or less life, an opponent is forced to draw a card while their library is empty, an opponent has ten or more poison counters, an opponent is dealt combat damage by Phage the Untouchable, you control Felidar Sovereign and have 40 or more life, or so on. You keep playing.
July 10, 2018 2:02 a.m.
If indeed it is the case that you got mana and life for every +1/+1 counter placed on your creatures, and 3 of your creatures got +1/+1 counters for every one of theirs that died their infinite combo benefits you more than them. However, like Neotrup, I can't think of or find any effects that do either of those things without a specially engineered board state.
Crystalline Crawler could provide the mana, but it's not a vampire. The only thing I see that converts +1/+1 counters to life is Spike Feeder, that's 2 life and is also not a vampire. It's possible to make them vampires with something like Conspiracy or Olivia Voldaren but beyond that I'm not sure the effects you controlled worked as you're describing.
And yeah, as mentioned above, regeneration shields will not protect from having a toughness less than 1. Retribution of the Ancients doesn't destroy its target, it reduces (or at least can reduce) its toughness to 0 or less, which causes it to be moved to the graveyard by a state-based action.
July 9, 2018 5:17 p.m.
Your opponent may "hold" priority until they need something to resolve to continue the combo, such as a "when a creature dies add ". For that ability to resolve they must pass priority.
Once they have passed priority with all triggers waiting to resolve on the stack you may activate Retribution of the Ancients, targeting Slimefoot. If, at that point, your opponent can start the combo anew on top of your activation of Retribution of the Ancients they can do so, and if again they need part of it to resolve before continuing you can activate RotA again, on and on until one of you runs out of resources.
If, for example, your opponent has 12 mana available and earns for every creature that dies from a triggered ability and you have 6 +1/+1 counters to remove it plays out like so:
- Opponent pays 4 to create a saproling, 8 mana available
- Ability resolves, saproling is created
- Opponent sacrifices the saproling, creating at least two triggers: one that deals 1 damage to you and another that adds
At this point (or before the saproling is created, as that is also an ability that must resolve) they may either wait for the ability to resolve, or pay from their 8 available mana. If they're paying attention they'll wait, because they need you to spend all your resources before they can go infinite, because:
- If you don't respond they're functionally going infinite, so you must remove X +1/+1 counters to kill some piece of the combo. If Slimefoot is the smallest piece you need 3
- Your opponent repeats the first 3 steps, 4 mana available and waiting for the "when a creature dies..." triggers to resolve
- You activate RotA again, leaving you with no +1/+1 counters
- Your opponent repeats the first 3 steps, and this time they can wait for abilities to resolve and have a complete loop
If they "hold" priority completely they can't create tokens with Slimefoot and can't gain mana from "dies" triggers.
116.3b The active player receives priority after a spell or ability (other than a mana ability) resolves.
116.3c If a player has priority when they cast a spell, activate an ability, or take a special action, that player receives priority afterward.
116.4. If all players pass in succession (that is, if all players pass without taking any actions in between passing), the spell or ability on top of the stack resolves or, if the stack is empty, the phase or step ends.
July 8, 2018 10:21 p.m.
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