Also true, forgot about him lol

You don’t need to run Codex Shredder to win. Once you get infinite mana with urza in play, you can just exile your library, loop Narset’s reversal and timetwister to get infinite recasts, then use chain of vapor to make infinite creatures with urza. Then you can make your opponent’s all hellbent with narset + timetwister, and then return all their permanents with chain of vapor. You can counter all their copies of chain of vapor, and then pass with them having no permanents, no cards in hand, and you have infinite creatures. If you want to be extra safe, you can put into play all of your Stax pieces, and have All of your counterspells in hand.

Is there a reason recurring insight is there but not treasure cruise?

I feel like after seeing the primer develop... It's overly complicated combos for the sake of it... Maybe I'm crazy but... It definitely feels like the win combos require WAY too man pieces to pull off...

With a Labman/Jace, Aetherflux, or Ballista you literally need 5 artifacts or rocks that make 5 mana, Urza, and Paradox Engine/Dramatic Scepter

DrkNinja: Sure but those wincons are less slot-efficient. Every slot matters in cEDH, it’s best to avoid useless-outside-of-winning-scenario cards if possible.

(That info is also in the primer if you read that section.)

I did, but one slot? I mean if we stick with the argument of the aforementioned Aetherflux being 4 CMC, labman is 3 CMC. You have enough counterspells to prevent anything from happening to him... I dunno, I like a more clear wincon then all the convolution here.

Has Polymorph > Tidespout Tyrant been considered or is that out of the question?

Could Mox Tantalite be a thing ? i dont know if it's to slow but maybe a try worth ?

The most interesting ommission I saw here was the lack of 2 cmc mana rocks. What's the reason for that?

i really dont get why the deck wouldn't run aetherflux, once you have infinite mana you exile your entire library, cast aetherflux with all your counterspells available in exile, and cast your library and win via aetheflux, no?

And what does aetherflux when you re not winning? Right, nothing. Why wasting slots when you have already other ways to win?

Every win condition does nothing when you're not winning lol, what kind of logic is that.

Lol! That is just not true. As you can see with this deck they do. You did not read the primer or did not unterstand it i guess.

Why wasting slots when you can use the combopieces and instant/sorcerie spells you already have and which are essential for the deck to win the game?

legacys allure seems weak here, its a horrible topdeck when you need an answer. I get why it is good if you get it say turn 1 or 2 but after that its pretty bad. You should probably replace it with something more useful like Hurkyl's Recall or even Rebuild

I play storm a lot in EDH, and I've played 4 color storm non-white and non-red, jund storm, izzet storm, and mono-blue artifact storm. I can tell you for fact that aetherflux or at least some difficult-to-answer win Con is a must-have in any sort of deck that's looking to stack stuff. Any sort of CEDH deck runs the Timetwister loops as a backup, and even that's fairly easy to disrupt. Legacy's Allure is absolutely trash, and I have no clue why you decided not to run lab maniac when your commander is literally exile the top card of your library on a stick. If you're looking to make this competitive (I'm assuming since the list is expensive and you seem to be running aCEDH wincon) you want those. Future Sight is a really great card in theory in my experience, but it's super hard to get out, and most likely you're going to get it out as soon as you can, and it sucks when there's a land on top. I have a storm list on my page that's relatively "budget" compared to this, and it has 3 more colors, but future Sight is often a dead draw. Aetherflux can also allow you to win without going infinite since you only really have to amount a storm count of around 20 to finish everyone off. I would definitely add more storm-based win cons. It's good to have one way to win, but it's even better to have 2 or 3 or 4. The makings of an already awesome deck is here but the primer just makes no sense. Some strange choices, but it's up to you. Definitely a +1 from me tho, awesome-looking primer, and awesome deck. Good job!

I hope you know what you just did was like telling Micheal Jordan he's a trash basketball player. Lol. IMMG54

What 3 cards would be the normal go to for Intuition ? Love the list! Playing something similar, but using Jace as a backup wincon since I don’t have a Timetwister.

@ IMMG54 I agree with acorlew, i dont know all of the guys that worked on this. But sigi and sickrobot should probably know what they are doing. So tell me how is it easy to disrupt the timetwister loop; since you already can play your whole library at that point, and all your counterspells?

I tested this deck and won my first match thanks to future sight. You cant just cut a card that enables half of the combos in the deck. 5 Mana is nothing for this deck, and just with urzas ability alone you can get rid of lands on top too. When you have unwinding clock out as well it s just super value, even if you cant combo off yet.

If you really think through it you will realise it's an auto-include.

Depends on the situation. When you have half of a combo or two, like you have a Narset, Parter of Veils and Dramatic Reversal , you may fetch a Isochron Scepter , Windfall , and Timetwister , any of them can win you the game. Paradox Engine is always a decent combo target, etc.

Additionally, when you need to answer something, you can fetch a Force of Will and choose an opponent who also wants it answered. Occasionally you can pile Force of Will , Force of Negation , and Pact of Negation if you don't have an ally. You can also do things like pile Trinisphere , Winter Orb , and Static Orb to hate on your opponents', or Cyclonic Rift , Chain of Vapor , Legacy's Allure , Gilded Drake , and/or Blast Zone .

Oh this is lab maniacs I'm an idiot. Sorry everyone for wasting comment space.

To be honest outside of the whole combo discussion im really surprised by the lack of cavern of souls here? is a huge no brainer of a land imo. Also tabernacle has been proving to be awkward to play with in this deck for me, considering you have urza and the construct already costing 2 to maintain, sai giving you topthers on top of that would render them useless as they'd need to pay for themselves, thoughts on that? we all know the point is to win as fast as possible but life ain't that easy.

DrkNinja Yes one slot, when you draw lab man it sucks every time in this deck. When you generate infinite mana you win, so why include a card that sucks when you draw it every time when you can not run the card and still win in the same scenarios?

Does the newly spoiled Tribute Mage have a spot here?

Also, the primer mentions what to sub in if I don't have timetwister, but doesn't mention what to slot in if I don't have Tabernacle. I was just going to try another cantrip.

I'm planning on replacing one island with Seat of the Synod , to help turn on Mox Opal. It dies to both nonbasic land AND artifact removal, so I can see where this might be the wrong choice.

How about the newly spoiled Echo of Eons as a replacement for Timetwister? Since you'll be at infinite mana anyway, does it matter what the cost is?