Unending Torment

Modern* VampireArmy

SCORE: 68 | 276 COMMENTS | 10174 VIEWS | IN 19 FOLDERS


Pox gets it done! —Nov. 25, 2015

The deck is extremely powerful. It stands up to other grindy decks, has enough removal for aggro, can strip away almost all of the cards from control but i need to find a way to draw into a game ender

GlistenerAgent says... #1

I have been happy with a Blood Baron in the board for grindy matchups. Not sure if Hellkite/Stormbreath are better, but Blood Baron is randomly amazing against lots of people other than Jund/Abzan.

Maybe try Grim Lavamancer or Pack Rat in place of Blossom? Both are pretty solid cards.

If you want to maindeck Fulminators, I'd go "all-in" with 2 Ghost Quarters as well. If you're going to beat lands, beat them hard. My changes are -3 Blossom, +3 Fulminator, -1 Pia and Kiran/Olivia, +1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor.

How I would build your manabase:

8 black fetchlands, 4 shocklands (2 Blood Crypt), 4 basics (2 Swamp), 4 Blackcleave Cliffs, 2 Lavaclaw Reaches, 1 Ghost Quarter. Play 2 GQs if you want Fulminator, I think.

November 20, 2015 10:36 p.m.

I really don't like Bob in this list. Bob works super well in Jund/Junk because they can consistently provide a threat that actually ends games, in the form of Goyf or Scooze or Rhino. In other words, they almost always have a serious board presence that threatens the opponent. The thing is, you don't have that, you have very small advantages like Bitterblossom that can win you games... but over a much longer span of time than Jund/Junk. If you really want drawing for late games, I would put some Phyrexian Arena in.

Which brings me to my next point: I feel like you badly need finishers. At this point, the only serious threats you have are 3x Bitterblossom, 1x Olivia and 1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar. Since there are only five of those, you'll probably draw around 2-3 in a game. Which means that if your opponent can deal with those 2-3 cards (which you have no way of protecting and little ways of recurring), they just boosted their winning chances by about 80%. And I know that you have the Abbot and Lingering Souls which can provide some pressure, but I doubt that it's enough.

Now for suggestions. Contrary to Glistener's opinion, I would keep the blossom and get rid of the bobs for a Phyrexian Arena or two. I think that 2x Blood Baron of Vizkopa should also work great to balance out the lifeloss (and he's also resistant to 95% of removal in Modern), and I would try a few Grim Lavamancers instead of a few Abbot of Keral Keep.

Also, just curious on why you decided to take out the Crackling Doom.

November 20, 2015 10:53 p.m. Edited.

I'm going to bring a third opinion:

Put the butchers back in! I agree with watermelon that Bob should go, and I think that Butcher was fantastic in here. The hasty lifegain when facing burn is super helpful and although he's soft to removal, he loves you blossoms and lingering souls.

November 20, 2015 11 p.m.

VampireArmy says... #4

Whoa. 3 in a row huh...

Well the hate on bob caught me off guard. He's never failed to generate good card advantage (which is a thing this deck desperately needs)

I don't think i want arena. It's kinda lame on its own when people are throwing around Abrupt Decay that means they spend 2 mana to get rid of my 3 mana opposed to it being an even trade.

Butcher is only out temporarily but i will say this : people have got to start ignoring his abilities more. You can't comfortably use them when your opponent has mana open so more often than not he's just a 5/4 flier for 4 (which isn't bad really)

Doom got the cut because of abbot. Flipping it of of him is no bueno.

More games will be played. I'll be adjusting for main deck fulminators. If he doesn't work, I'll be going for either finks or some number of packrat/lavamancer with possible mutavault back up

November 20, 2015 11:14 p.m.

kmcree says... #5

Bob is fantastic and shouldn't go anywhere. Maybe drop down to 3 but no less. Butcher is good, but there's just too much removal in the format for him to be a reliable powerhouse.

November 21, 2015 12:04 a.m.

Nixin72 says... #6

Grim Lavamancer all the way. Provides amazing utility, locks down a number of matchups, gets rid of the need for a lot of 2 for 1 situations.

November 21, 2015 1:03 a.m.

Femme_Fatale says... #7

3 Bobs I believe is ideal in mardu. Mardu doesn't have nearly as much lifegain as Jund or Junk.

FAMOUSWATERMELON's points against Bob is valid, but is even more valid against Abbot of Keral Keep. In Jund, there's almost nothing you don't want to play or permanently exile with Abbot of Keral Keep. You generally drop him down when you have 5 or 6 mana, and see what you get. If you want what you exiled, you can play it. If you don't, play something else from your hand. However, with Mardu, you need everything you got for specific situations. Your removal is only against creatures and you generally need to keep it open and not squander it at any point. Jund and Junk can happily play instant speed at sorcery speed, but Mardu cannot. Mardu wants the value of instant speed to gain value over the opponent.

You particularly mentioned being weak against aggro, so I suggest this: Mainboard 3-4 Auriok Champions and 2 Shambling Vents. Shambling Vents is also excellent against Jund, just as long as you don't swing it into an obvious bolt.

Butcher of the Horde's abilities is only useful when you have things to reliably sacrifice without the opponent 2-for-1'ing you. Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Lingering Souls, Abbot of Keral Keep, Bitterblossom and Young Pyromancer are generally what I'd sac (or the tokens they generate) to him. At the moment, I don't think it is best in this deck list.

November 21, 2015 4:07 a.m. Edited.

VampireArmy says... #8

To an extent bob HAS to stay. He's one of the only sources of effective card advantage these colors will ever get. Arena won't cut it. Outpost Siege did once upon a time but those days are passed.

Abbot, as I've stated before, is experimental. He's been fine so far. Not nearly as good as he is in jund. That much is clear but we may still get decent value. There is two reasons why this deck just doesn't work the way it should.

1: our actual threats cost too much and simply don't generate enough value. Compare our 2 midrange threats to gbx.

We have Fulminator(2/2), brimaz(legendary),hangarbacks(1/1), ect. The point being our 2 mana stuff is basically only ever going to be 2\2 and our 3 mana will either be legendary or fail to generate enough value.

They have goyf and scavenging ooze that's a 3/4-4/5 and a creature that both gains life and gets big at any point during the game. They get to play both these AND spells in the same turn. The tempo simply wins there.

Manlands.

Compare our

Lavaclaw: 3 mana - 2/2 firebreathing

Vents: 3 mana 2/3 lifelink

Them:

Ravine: 4 mana 3/3 gets bigger with every attack

Village: 2 mana 3/3 trample.

Automatic value there for them.

Basically we'll always be behind man. We need a better way

November 21, 2015 12:04 p.m.

GlistenerAgent says... #9

Maybe you should be taking this in an entirely different direction. Maybe play with Young Pyromancer and try for a more aggressive deck with lots of cheap removal. Bob gets even better, and Abbot is great in that sort of shell also.

Like you said, you aren't going to get ahead of Jund by being similar.

November 21, 2015 12:07 p.m.

VampireArmy says... #10

What if we became a pox control deck instead and REALLY beat lands?

Reference

November 21, 2015 12:09 p.m.

VampireArmy says... #11

(Id be playing gurmag angler over haunting echos fyi)

November 21, 2015 12:11 p.m.

Looks interesting. Play Ajani Vengeant over Gideon, Ally of Zendikar also.

November 21, 2015 12:13 p.m.

VampireArmy says... #13

Repeating Lightning Helix does sound like a good wincon...Sorin, Lord of Innistrad will also be considered

November 21, 2015 12:31 p.m.

I dunno about mardu pox. I like the more aggro approach.

As for comparing to Jund, they can't match your removal. Ever. Your removal is so much more efficient and there's a lot more of it such that instead of playing to beat their creatures with your creatures, play on the back of your removal. I REALLY like Glistner's idea of an aggro/tempo/removal build. Play around with the tokens especially. Being able to go wide while keeping their board clear with efficient removal and lots of tokens sounds like a deck to me.

November 21, 2015 1:19 p.m.

VampireArmy says... #15

I've played that version. It dies to anything with even a tiny bit of tempo. Loses hard to grixis of any kind, uwr of any kind, junk if they draw anything except all creatures. Like it's just brutally out matched by this meta

November 21, 2015 1:24 p.m.

xzzane says... #16

So many name changes. What are you trying to do with this list? Is this a land destruction based list now? Have you tested it out any?

November 21, 2015 1:36 p.m.

StopShot says... #17

Consider putting Mana Tithe in the deck. With this much land destruction, the white-counterspell is like throwing salt in the wounds and it's likely going to counter everything for one mana if you play the deck right.

November 21, 2015 1:41 p.m.

VampireArmy says... #18

That's the problem with a rogue Deck with too many options. You end up changing a lot. Basically the jund esque list won't work for reasons detailed earlier. Truthfully I'm trying to pinpoint this colors niche. Control might do it. I'm testing out a list i found online and more than likely doing edits from there

Im iffy on the 27 land package but i really think denying my opponent all the resources i can while slowly killing via bitterblissom and tokens could be a legit plan.

November 21, 2015 1:41 p.m.

xzzane says... #19

27 lands seems like an awful lot of lands. That's more than most control decks run. Even with 6 Smallpox like affects, it seems too high of a number.

November 21, 2015 1:49 p.m.

VampireArmy says... #20

It might be worth to drop the booms and 3 lands for 2 terminates and some amount of discard.

November 21, 2015 1:53 p.m.

Femme_Fatale says... #21

I should repeat the need for Auriok Champion. In the more tempo/removal build it makes you automatically win against tempo and Grixis. It makes you last 5 more turns against Junk giving you plenty of time to finish them off. The tempo/removal mardu with YP should require protection grants to get by the removal weakness, and allows you to alpha strike them through their tokens. Note that the tempo/removal plan will require Butcher of the Horde.

You want a finisher? Gideon, Ally of Zendikar will finish things for you, Ajani Vengeant won't. There's too many creatures in this meta for Ajani Vengeant to reliably stall the board. You might have all the removal, but it takes 3 turns for Ajani Vengeant to activate 2 Lightning Helixes. Gideon plops down a token when he comes out than swings for 5 the next turn.

Course none of these things work in this current build. You should really keep a tally of each different build you make in separate deck lists somewhere, and then link each version you made in this one with T/O's js script under a spoiler. It'll help organize your thoughts on which version you prefer.

November 21, 2015 1:53 p.m.

xzzane says... #22

Additional removal and hand disruption would go a lot farther I think.m

November 21, 2015 1:54 p.m.

VampireArmy says... #23

I definitely should. I don't know how to do scripts though so I'll end up hyperlinking them on here.

In fairness I'll build a token tempo deck for comparison sake

November 21, 2015 1:59 p.m.

xzzane says... #24

I can confirm that Auriok Champion is damn good against a lot of things. I've won every game that I've been able to get out Bitterblossom, Auriok Champion, and Liliana of the Veil out together. The ultimate grind trifecta.

November 21, 2015 2:03 p.m.

VampireArmy says... #25

Tempo tokens list is up

November 21, 2015 2:13 p.m.