Why is Mishra's workshop + Trinisphere combo good?
Legacy forum
Posted on Aug. 26, 2014, 12:21 a.m. by ManiacalPotato
I have 2 questions, both have to do with Mishra's Workshop , and one involves Trinisphere
Why is the Mishra's Workshop + Trinisphere combo good? I get the usefullness of mishra's workshop, but trinisphere doesn't seem like a very good card, and the two have no relation between them as far as I can tell.
why is Mishra's Workshop banned in legacy? isn't legacy supposed to allow all cards?
Gidgetimer says... #3
The usefulness of Trinisphere is as a tempo move. Decks that run it don't care about the additional cost for one reason or another. Many decks in Legacy though don't plan on casting spells for more than 3 and making them pay that extra can slow them down a lot, I assume the same is true of Vintage where this could happen.
Legacy has a ban list. It is Vintage that allows all cards and will only restrict them.
August 26, 2014 12:29 a.m.
filledelanuit says... #5
The vintage ban is list only dexterity cards and ante cards. It doesn't ban cards because of power level
August 26, 2014 7:11 a.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #6
Because turn one Trinisphere is a format of low mana curves is hilarious.
August 26, 2014 7:50 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #7
- Workshop makes 3 mana for artifacts, and Trinisphere is a 3-cost artifact
- All your other cheap and unfair artifacts cost 3 now, but oh look, you have a Workshop
- Your opponent is now screwed out of his first 2 turns (as well as many other potential later plays), so you can use that time to do whatever you want
August 26, 2014 10:02 a.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #8
In vintage, if you cast a turn one 'sphere on the play, you win the game against every single combo or control deck. And against aggro decks, they need to be playing their own workshop to survive. Combine with tons of other fast mana and prison effects, your opponents often will never get to play a single spell for the entire game before you kill them with Myr Battlesphere or Karn, Silver Golem .
August 26, 2014 3:02 p.m.
I remember when Trinisphere first got printed and it wasn't restricted right away lol...
sylvannos plays Mishra's Workshop
from hand.
sylvannos plays Trinisphere
from hand.
sylvannos "End my turn."
Player Two plays Island
from hand.
Player Two "End my turn."
sylvannos plays Crucible of Worlds
from hand.
sylvannos plays Strip Mine
from hand.
sylvannos targets Island
with Strip Mine
.
System: Player has lost.
August 26, 2014 6:01 p.m.
ManiacalPotato says... #10
OH. I just didn't catch that Trinisphere could be given to other players.
August 27, 2014 12:40 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #11
Trinisphere affects everyone at the same time. It doesn't say "your spells", nor does it say "opponents' spells". It just says "spells". It doesn't matter who controls it.
August 27, 2014 11:06 a.m.
ManiacalPotato says... #12
oh. so it essentially allows you to play any creature you could normally play for 1 land with mishra's workshop, while they have to accumulate land over 3 turns in order to play their cards?
August 27, 2014 3:34 p.m.
@ManiacalPotato: Yes, that's correct. And usually the first thing you play after landing a Trinisphere is Lodestone Golem or Tangle Wire .
While Trinisphere doesn't interact with Lodestone Golem , your opponent will have a hard time keeping up with a 5/3 if all of their 1 and 2 drops cost 3 mana and all of their 3+ drops cost an additional mana.
Tangle Wire , in combination with Wasteland and Strip Mine , will put more strain on their mana base so they can't crawl out from under the Trinisphere lock.
Then there's Sphere of Resistance , Smokestack , Chalice of the Void , and Thorn of Amethyst providing additional taxes on mana. For this reason, most people will just scoop to a turn one Trinisphere , since the chances of winning are really low and it's better to not reveal any information on what you're playing so the Mishra's Workshop player has a more difficult time sideboarding.
This is an excellent article on the MUD archetype in Vintage. It's one of my favorite decks to play in any format.
August 27, 2014 6:19 p.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #14
The one thing that has changed in MUD since that article was written is Staff of Nin . The clock on that card isn't the important part, (although it can win games occasionally) but now, you can mow down even MORE of their mana rocks with Karn. AND it provides a useful draw engine that can get online as early as turn two.
August 28, 2014 4:06 p.m.
@NotSoLuckyLydia: I love Staff of Nin in MUD! It really depends on the build, though. Staff of Nin is awful if you have four Sphere of Resistance and four Thorn of Amethyst . This is especially true if you don't have Kuldotha Forgemaster . Last time I played the deck, I opted for Phyrexian Metamorph s and Phyrexian Revoker s instead.
Phyrexian Metamorph is crucial for the Oath of Druids matchup since you just copy their Griselbrand . Sometimes, they just won't let your Duplicant resolve and having more copies helps. Phyrexian Revoker stops Jace, the Mind Sculptor , Time Vault , and Tezzeret the Seeker .
Staff of Nin is an absolute boss in the Legacy version. People become a lot more hesitant to block your Metalworker s with Stoneforge Mystic and Deathrite Shaman lol.
August 28, 2014 5:17 p.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #16
In the legacy MUD, I don't know why you wouldn't be running staff somewhere in your 75.
In the vintage ones, I'm a big fan of staff, but not so much on the last thorn. Then again, my shop's (almost 100% proxied) meta is full of small creature decks like hatebears and GWB aggro.
August 28, 2014 6:44 p.m.
@NotSoLuckyLydia: Oh I meant the Vintage version Staff of Nin gets clunky. In Legacy, it's a pretty essential card for the draw power. Otherwise, you don't keep up with Brainstorm and your opponent will eventually draw an out. You're right--I facepalm every time I see a Legacy MUD without one and they lose top 8 because of it.
erabel says... #2
This isn't a rules question. For future reference, the Q&A is reserved for rules questions. I think this goes in the Legacy forum. Epochalyptik?
As for actual answers...
You're on the play. Play Mishra's Workshop , tap it for 3 mana, play Trinisphere . Pass to your opponent. Your opponent now can't really play any spells until turn 3, unless they also have a Mishra's Workshop and are playing an artifact-heavy deck. While they struggle to catch up, as long as you're playing artifacts, the Workshop will get you past Trinisphere .
Well, when you allow every card in existence, certain cards or combinations thereof become so overwhelmingly powerful that, if allowed, tournaments would devolve into "play this deck, play a deck that specifically counters this deck, or lose". When that happens, cards from that deck are banned so that variety can ensue.
August 26, 2014 12:28 a.m.