final thoughts on avr?
General forum
Posted on April 23, 2012, 1:25 a.m. by Vman
full spoiler with images have been released! http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/avacynrestored/cig#
so what do you guys think about it?i love the art on defang and Terminus a great power card with awsome potential..for white
loving art of appitite-for-brains and liking Demonlord of Ashmouth loving gloom-surgeon cos its funny and the art of Griselbrand
favorite card overall!dark-impostor 2bvampire assasin4bb- exile target creature, dark impostor gets +1/+1 and gains all activated abilities of all creature cards exiled with it..
for red i love burn-at-the-stake seems to have potential..maybe boros humans?
evenwald-tracker for green seems to catch my eye..
artifacts haunted-guardian dayum that art
otherworld-atlas casual dream of mine .
lands are all cool
Malignus+Curse of Bloodletting+Fling=laughs
Epochalyptik says... #3
Legacy burn is certainly getting some new toys in Vexing Devil and Thunderous Wrath.
Other than Vexing Devil and the nonbasic lands (except Seraph Sanctuary) I'm actually a bit disappointed with the set. I feel like they could've done more, and a lot of the cards are underwhelming in power (even if they are flavorful as a whole). The artwork is brilliant though.
April 23, 2012 1:39 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
I'd personally like a page of some of the angels for my art collection. I'm planning on hunting down foil legendary angels once they drop in price.
April 23, 2012 1:40 a.m.
Sparks__Shell says... #5
This set feels very similar to Rise of Eldrazi. There is a huge lack of good removal in the set, which I'm concerned about.
April 23, 2012 1:54 a.m.
dont worry about removal, im pretty sure m13 will cover it and return to ravnica will bring up some surprises so post rotation is likely safe..
April 23, 2012 2 a.m.
Internet_the_Explorer says... #8
a Asian planeswalker and a red planeswalker that costs 2... they really are branching out arent they...
April 23, 2012 2:14 a.m.
I love how the basic lands are the same scenes as the innistrad basics but instead with most of them in the day, not at night. Nice touch.
April 23, 2012 2:21 a.m.
yeah divine deflection will go in my bw controll once site updated cards .
April 23, 2012 2:22 a.m.
really disappointed there weren't some nice juicy werewolves or wolves (not even ones that flip just ones that were decent) :-( i love all the artwork though its been amazing this set, loving the legendary angels and ofc avacyn and grieselbrand but thats cuz im an EDH junkie! haha also liking the soulbound knight hes cool.
April 23, 2012 5:46 a.m.
Altho I agree that AVR didn't do enough for wolf and werewolf deck overal, Wolfir Silverheart, will at least save the werewolves from being neutered by the new set, and still makes werewolf,wolf deck a little more viable, competitive.
I can dig 2 12/12 Wolfir Silverhearts, out by, on turn 5 with the help of birds, as finishers.
Wolfir and Nightfall predator, is also great.
April 23, 2012 7:25 a.m.
well actually the wolfir doesnt need to be in a werewolf deck to hurt a ton as i think itl see play in some gw deck for competative or gr aggro..but yeah wolves should be happy .
April 23, 2012 7:39 a.m.
yea hes cool i was just hoping for a little more, but the quantity of demons and angels printed that i love makes up for it lol
April 23, 2012 7:54 a.m.
im just so exited to build around dark impostor..maybe with olivia..or in grixis..idk i just wanna make the best most fun casual deck i can with it lol
April 23, 2012 8 a.m.
IAmKingTony says... #16
I have to agree. There was a fairly big deal made about the Wolfir... then they got 2 cards. 2 good cards mind you but 2 cards nonetheless.
April 23, 2012 8:06 a.m.
IAmKingTony says... #17
As far as opinion of the whole set goes, I feel like there are not as many cards in this set that fit into my existing decks compared to Dark Ascension.
Some new decks certainly are ready for making though. None will be too serious though I imagine.
April 23, 2012 8:08 a.m.
i think that alot of the cards are more viable for EDH and other formats rather than standard cuz usually standard runs too hot for many fatties to be playable especially when titans run rampant
April 23, 2012 9:06 a.m.
yeah...we will really see the full power post rotation really...
April 23, 2012 9:08 a.m.
There are some really good cards here and there but overall it seems underwhelming despite the set's sheer size. It's probably still worth picking up a box or two though, and some cards are guaranteed to make a big impact in the tournament scene.
Sadly nothing for older archetypes like mill and Grand Architect.
April 23, 2012 10:02 a.m.
To Me the set has a Dr Jeckyl, Mr Hyde feel in regards to the power level of the set, and individual cards.
What I mean by that, is that while there are more commons, uncommons, and rares, and legends, and mythics, that are back breakingly powerful, for every one that is that powerful, there are ones that are either normal, or are underwhelming.
There are also some slightly underrated, and slightly overrated cards. The are also some cards that are going to be awesome fits for certain decks, and be almost back breaking in those decks, but will be bad everywhere else.
The set also did a lot of teasing. An example of this is when I was making the temporal Mastery, thunderous Wrath U/R delverish deck. I was looking for the best possible card draw miracle enablers.
And each time they would come out with something borderline to ttease me. Dangerous Wager, discarding whole hand to draw 2 cards. No fit. Then Reforge the Soul? No that didn't work either. Bonfire of the Damned? To much mana. Lunar Mystic? 4 mana to slow. 3 mana and a 1/1 or 1/2 would have worked but 4 was bad. The new red planeswalker? Good in every other deck, except mine. Random discard is bad. Mad Prophet? Very good, and get to choose what to discard first, instead of draw and discard like Merfolk looter. The problem is again 4 mana too expensive. Will be a just barely ok replacement for Looter, if they don't reprint merfolk looter.
And I suspect that me and my deck weren't the only ones, who got teased like that by the new set.
The set also has the feel of Rise of the Eldrazi. The set seems to both make the cards both slower, and more powerful at the same time.
The only reason why the set seems to slow, or not powerful enough is the super fast Aggro standard meta were in right now. I suspect that they are going to try real hard to both slow things down and make things more powerful.
And that there will be more ways to deal with aggro, such as board wipe galore, more ramp, more ways to cheat in creatures,etc.
People said that Rise of the Eldrazi was either going to be to powerful, or not powerful enough, and to slow. It was also a set thatg teased you. and that was Dr Jecky and Mr Hyde like.
In the end Rise of the Eldrazi became extremely powerful, but did not become a long term set that interacted well with other sets.
I suspect that AVR will be a little tiny bit similar to that.I also think the set is, or can be extremely powerful, collectively, and individual cards.
April 23, 2012 11:22 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #22
Super fast aggro would have been K-Red in last year's standard. Aggro exists in Delver and Blade, but it's not quite what one thinks when you say super fast...
Also, it's fairly obvious that a set will have powerful cards and weak cards. They need to balance the power of the set; it's a basic premise of design.
April 23, 2012 11:42 a.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #23
Amazing set full of awesome cards. Personally I am favoring green and blue. It seems like there is a good chance of pulling something worthy in each pack
April 23, 2012 12:03 p.m.
That is a hard concept for some people to get Epochalyptik. even in the design challanges for the site. We rarly see people design low power cards of a rarity, we usually have to tone them down. Many people in WOTC design feel that vanilla and french vanilla creatures set the tone for design in a set. Just because its not epic do not make it useless. you need strong and weak cards.
That said I am not gunning for a new mana battery.
April 23, 2012 12:53 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #25
Fair enough. Part of the thrill of designing your own cards is making something powerful and playable though. Nobody wants to design a bad rare because nobody would want to play it or see it in their pack.
April 23, 2012 1:27 p.m.
True, but "bad" or less often used rares are an integral part of design. It allows for interesting sideboards and combo decks after the fact. While not all cards have an instant impact on the current meta, they may find homes in other environments or just die. it is hard to predict what will be good
April 23, 2012 1:43 p.m.
My opinion is AVR is basically a set based on EDH with standard/modern/legacy useable cards thrown in.
Burn additions:Dangerous Wager
Reforge the Soul (MAYBE)
WRR additions:
Cavern of Souls (uncounterable primeval titan is scary)
Also Cavern of souls for most tribal decks. (I am not sure if merfolk would run them because you can't cast daze off a cavern)
Enchantress:
Abundant growth
Miracle cards are miracle cards, they are awesome but no where near as good as most people think.
Dual Casting might have some potential
Griselbrand is possibly better than jin-gitaxis in reanimator decks.
And there are a few other cards I am definitely missing but thats what I could think of at this moment.
April 23, 2012 1:49 p.m.
miracle cards will be semi nice flavor luck based cards in some to most decks.
There are only a couple,few, some Archetype decks, supporting cast cards, that will manufacture, manipulate miracles semi effectively to effectively.
For miracles to work, you need miracle enablers, draw, discard, etc.
Dual Casting, Ponder, Noxious Revival, Reclaim, Merfolk looter, Crippling Chill, Think Twice, Lighthouse land, 2 Mastery, 3 Thunderous Wraths, 2,3 Vanishment, etc, are probably the only miracles, and miracle enablers, supporting cast cards, that can make miracle work.
And there is probably only 1 or 2 color combo's, and or type of decks, that can run those cards effectively.
The deck Archetype I built, might probably be the 1 of only 1 or 2, that can probably run miracles effectively.
April 23, 2012 6:29 p.m.
i edont think anything is broken or will be banned other than mastery in legacy or so..but standard speaking naw...
if theres 1 thing EVERY ONE agrees in its probably loving the art .
April 24, 2012 1:17 a.m.
Valentine35 says... #30
I'l break my final thoughts down in stages one for each rarity. this set has good but over-costing mana drop mythics. When i buy my box the only mythics i hope i dont get are...Misthollow Griffin, primal surge, and Craterhoof Behemoth.(not because i think these are bad, but because i know for a fact i will never use them.)...
As for the mythics i do want, Griselbrand, Gisela, blade of goodnight, Descent into Madness, Malignus, Temporal Mastery, and Tamiyo, the Moon Sage ...
I'll just say this set like any other has great rares and crappy but i think the better ones outweigh the bad in this case. rares that stuck out to me were Silverblade Paladin, Terminus, Dark Imposter, Gloom Surgeon, Killing Wave, Vexing Devil, Descendants' Path, and i like all of the rare lands...
I think this set has some great uncommons sort of like New Phyrexia had, obviously not as goo (yet) but still really good. Banishing Stroke, Emancipation Angel, Ghostly Touch, Nephalia Smuggler, Appetite for Brains, Barter in Blood, Evernight Shade, Demonic Taskmaster, Homicidal Seclusion, Triumph of Cruelty, Rush of Blood, Thunderous Wrath, Blessings of Nature, Triumph of Ferocity, Wolfir Avenger, Angelic Armaments, Vessel of Endless Rest...
And last but not least the commons i like would be too many to write since this has gone long enough, so i'll just say the few that really stood out to me were, Call To Serve, Cloudshift, Bone Splinters, Mental Agony, and Scroll of Avacyn, and Scroll of Griselbrand...
These are not the cards i think are the best in anyway, these are just cards that intrigued me when i read them. Some are probably pretty bad but i still like them because an idea popped into my head for each of them. Let's also not forget about the amazing artwork in this set, i think there was maybe 2 or 3 cards in the whole set that i didnt like the art all the rest is excellent. so IMO this set is good, not a disappointment at all, lets just hope they reprint Angelic Destiny in M13, because i thought for sure it would get reprinted in AVR.
April 24, 2012 9:49 a.m.
I agree that it seems strangely underwhelming. There just seems to be something missing from the set. I can't put my finger on what it is, but it's like a movie with only 2 acts. Something left to be desired.
Vman says... #2
feel like making a bunch of casual decks and a competative black-white ramp/controll? hmm all i know is imma have fun brewing
April 23, 2012 1:28 a.m.