z2aaa: Baby jace, chaos warp, and frantic search are excellent cards. I have been tempted to add them myself in the past and still may give them a try at some point. I think serum visions is scraping the bottom of the barrel a bit on cantrips tbh.

iamyoona: I totally agree on Training Grounds It feels like a great midrange card. I am very iffy on the value of a card like misdirection. It feels so borderline playable regardless of meta. Mental misstep is a great card and chain of vapor is a tremendous combo enabler as well as instant speed answer. I agree on whispering madness. Its a great budget option, but not optimal. Notion Thief and Leo are great midrange cards. I agree on reality shift. Now that I have made a small Scroll Rack of potential replacement cards on my primer I am less dead set on having 3 ways to win. The deck needs more combo protection anyways.

Paradoxical OutcomeWtf y u not running this

It doesn't work like it does in vintage. Sol ring, Mana crypt, grim monolith, mana vault, mox Opal add Mana. Talismans and signers don't. Without mox it's really not as strong of a card. I tested it and it felt underwhelming given your game plan. For that much Mana, you can basically just engine and you have so much card advantage already. Sorry for formatting. On mobile.

I ended up cutting reality shift because I would rather go for the win than interact and I still have grasp as a backup win condition.

In terms of artifact bounce, Hurkyl's Recall would be a decent option for midrange versions of the deck since it can also disrupt others and can help you get to engine with your net positive rocks. For this deck I am testing Retract, which will probably eventually become Spell Pierce since the deck is plenty fast enough and could benefit from more combo protection. Either way retract is pretty sexy on a main phase ad naus and protects my rocks from harm.

I understand the desire to play cards like Hurkyl's Recall and Retract and I agree the former is better for midrange while the latter fits the all in; however, I think these two cards are inherently fairly risky.

My argument for this lies in the fact that cantrips like Brainstorm, Ponder, and Preordain keep your engine going while maintaining your board state. For the two artifact bounce spells, you give your opponent's a chance to kill your engine in response to trying to recast your rocks. Yes, your opponent had the exact same opportunity to kill the engine while you were casting the cantrips but when you respond to the kill spell on a cantrip, you are able to generate additional mana; however, responding to playing your Sol Ring or Mana Crypt might cost you the mana required to go off.

This is obviously not a major case but it is definitely a case worth considering when testing cards like Retract and Hurkyl's Recall.

On another note, I'm starting to see more value in Mishra's Bauble and Urza's Bauble. The ability to keep the combo going is nice, the ability to generate card advantage is nice, and sometimes my hand just has too many answers and not enough plays. As I mentioned, I'm more of a control player at heart so I love having answers but in this deck, I think there is a lot of value to going off more consistently.

Thats fair, I am actually leaning towards recall to bounce opponents stax pieces. I dont think either is great at sustaining the engine since they bounce engine too, but they can help get there. Lets say I tap out for an early ad naus with something like mana vault I then play a few 0-1 mana rocks and get to 4. Bouncing all my rocks should get me to 5 where I can play engine, then cast a bauble or LED to start the combo.

Yeah the baubles have many subtle functions, but they are invaluable as an intial untap. I have gotten so many early victories because of them and wheeling then having a hand of 8 on turn 2 is pretty nice too

You had mentioned somewhere else the possibility of cutting some of the two mana artifacts (or am I crazy). How is it going on that front? What card(s) would replace those artifacts? Your deck is the first storm deck I have seen not to play Force of Will. Another notable omission from your deck is Worldly Tutor.

Crap, the comment about Worldly Tutor was meant for the Tymna version of this deck. Do you still consider the red version superior to the white?

Its slighty more focused so yes. FOW is great but being a 5 mana spell makes it not worth it.

So after seeing the deck in the tourney I am dropping llanowar elves for bloom tender and simic signet for carpet of flowers, urborg tomb of yawgmoth, for tarnished citadel and urza's bauble for everflowing chalice

Lilbrudder: FoW is a 0-mana spell that happens to have 5CMC, man.

Daedalus FoW is a 0-mana spell that happens to cost a card and blast you for 5 off of Ad Naus. I was stalking this forumn when he made the change and at first I was scandalized but now I find I agree with him.

Which tournament was this and how did you do? I read something about a deck stealing a win with Praetor's Grasp.

Carpet of Flowers is an auto include. I am assuming Force of Will is too big a hit to take with Ad Nauseam.

Which tournament was this and how did you do? I read something about a deck stealing a win with Praetor's Grasp.

Carpet of Flowers is an auto include. I am assuming Force of Will is too big a hit to take with Ad Nauseam.