Savage Ventmaw

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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Alchemy Legal
Arena Legal
Block Constructed Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Custom Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Gladiator Legal
Highlander Legal
Historic Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Modern Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Penny Dreadful Legal
Pioneer Legal
Vintage Legal

Savage Ventmaw

Creature — Dragon

Flying

Whenever this attacks, gain . You don't lose this mana at the end of steps and phases until the end of your turn.

Guerric on [Primer] Unleash the Dragon! *Updated*

3 weeks ago

Hi everyone! At long last I've updated the list with some of the ancient dragons that I think will work best in the deck list.

The first is, unsurprisingly, Ancient Silver Dragon. I've long wanted a good card draw piece on a stick for this deck, and this is the best we could have hoped for. It's unfortunate that it gives us no maximum hand size since it will be harder to discard dragons that way, but we'll take it anyway. We cut Spellbound Dragon for it. This card was always great utility since we could discard a dragon with it, and at least once it gave me enough commander damage to win the game. That being said, it's one of the weaker links in the deck so he's retired with honors.

The second is actually Ancient Gold Dragon. Kudos to AJohnney101 for pointing this out! It's not just good with Dragon Tempest. It's also good for our other cards that care about the number of dragons attacking, such as Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury who can easily kill a table with enough dragons on board, or to a lesser extend Dromoka, the Eternal. It can also wipe any board with Silumgar, the Drifting Death or add some 6/6s to the 1/1s with Utvara Hellkite. There's just a lot of combos and lines of play here that are really good. We'll cut Kairi, the Swirling Sky for it which isn't super great and certainly nowhere near as great as this.

Ancient Brass Dragon intrigued me initially, but at best it's a second copy of Teneb, the Harvester that doesn't take mana to activate, but which will whiff sometimes. Having a second copy of Teneb is considerable, but the risk of whiffing is as well, so I'm still on the fence.

Ancient Copper Dragon is also amazing and I wouldn't critique anyone adding that, but I think I'm good at the moment with Old Gnawbone and Savage Ventmaw for rampy dragons and am not at the present time investing a slot or money in it.

I also think AJohnney101's suggestion of Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm is intriguing. I can definitely see the value in making copies of not just Miirym but other dragons we want to reanimate, and there would be a lot of fun to be had with mass reanimation on this one. The ward is also not nothing, as this could also be played to nullify removal at Scion if someone holds up one for Path to Exile of can't otherwise pay to overcome the ward. I'll definitely keep this in mind!

AJohnney101

Thanks for all the fabulous suggestions! My replies are mostly in the update list above. I also agree that late game we can usually run this deck just fine without Scion. He's a great tool to get us going, but we have lots of tricks to close out the game and a great toolbox.

StormageddonBHOJ

I don't have Fellwar Stone because I am in green and don't really need many mana rocks. Rampant Growth and its many clones do most of my work here. I've only included Chromatic Lantern because of the incredible utility it provides to my mana base. I can see the case for Faithless Looting or as AJohnney101 suggested Amass the Components and the like. That being said, I in dislike in general one-off effects in a deck like this which often just aren't as useful as a piece that could give me repeat value, but that might be just me!

Dev31

Thanks for the compliment! For the BG dragons see the update above

As usual, thanks for all of your valuable contributions to the deck and primer. They appreciated!

multimedia on Miirym Dragon Tribal Deck

1 month ago

Hey, well done so far for a first deck with a $500+ budget.

34 lands and only 9 reliable ramp sources is low for Dragons. The land count is fine, but only if you add more low mana cost ramp. Add more lands or add more ramp? Tempt with Discovery relies on opponents to be ramp and Thaumatic Compass  Flip relies on you controlling seven or more lands to be ramp. These aren't reliable as ramp and they cost too much mana for what you get.

In simplest terms there's two areas you want most with Miirym, ramp and Dragons. Ramp to first cast 6 mana Miirym and Dragons to cast after Miirym. Of course you want other areas too, but most important are these two. Consider expanding on ramp?

Nature's Lore, Farseek are more good two drop land ramp like Three Visits. Cursed Mirror is excellent with blink, if you blink the copied creature then that blinks Mirror which can then ETB as a copy of some other creature including an opponent's creature. You can also choose to have it just ETB as a mana rock which is needed for a combo.

Jade Orb of Dragonkind gives protection from targeted removal until your next turn for the Dragon you cast with it. This effect is helpful since paying a lot of mana to cast a Dragon to then have it killed is feels bad. Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner untap ability is versatile, any permanent you control, it's also repeatable draw when a Dragon ETB including a token.


There's 100+ of different Dragons you could play with a $500+ budget and having Old Gnawbone as a price point? Consider upgrading some Dragons?

These Dragons can be parts of wincon combos and they're made much better thanks to Miiryn copying them. All these Dragons don't break the bank and adding them can really increase the power level of your deck.

What's nice about these combos are they all use a Dragon. All the cards are good by themselves, but with the Dragon and/or Miirym they're much better. Tandem Lookout can be repeatable draw that can change creature it's bonded too. Bond to any creature you control before Miirym, then bond to Miirym and when you're ready bond to Niv-Mizzet. Bond to any Dragon who can do repeatable noncombat damage to opponents such as Scourge of Valkas for lots of draw.

Getting more value: ramp, draw or removal from Dragons can help gameplay. Steel Hellkite + Old Gnawbone/Savage Ventmaw mana can wreck especially when you have multiple Hellkites.

If you're interested I offer more advice in another comment. Would you like more advice?

Good luck with your deck.

TypicalTimmy on Double dragons

1 month ago

Mind if I ask how you got Atarka to say "thick"?


As for Miirym, what I do is go for a three-pronged approach: Ramp (excluded, all decks should have ramp), ETB effects, draw and doubling or copying effects.

Miirym at her core is a value-driven Commander. You want each spell to have weight and merit. That weight might not be immediately accessible, but your ultimate goal should be to overwhelm and overpower. Yes, you are prone to wraths, rifts, counterspells, prisons, taxes, etc but that is really a problem that belies all decks, indeed all formats. Though, some to a lesser degree. Regardless, the key here is saturation.

For example, Miirym will create a token copy of any dragon that enters the battlefield under your control, yes? Therefore, spells and permanents that take advantage of this will reign supreme. I see you have Dragon Tempest and Warstorm Surge, so you're off to a good start. As do you have Garruk's Uprising and Temur Ascendancy.

So fundamentally you already understand the core concepts of Miirym.

I see you also have Adrix and Niv and Reflections. These are a good start. The issue here is that just 2 cards out of the whole deck are going to largely be unseen throughout multiple games. You want consistency. Cards such as Parallel Lives or Doubling Season work really well, as does Progenitor Mimic.

My decks also run a much more dense population of ramp in the way of mana rocks, also. Drawing cards does no good if you can't cast them. Speaking of which, Sneak Attack doesn't require you to cast the dragon, but she will still copy it. That's something to consider.

A really good closer is Furnace of Wrath or anything that can double your damage. I see you have Atarka, World Render which is a great addition especially in and against pronounced aerial combat scenarios. However, being able to stack doubling damage is also a wonderful thing.

My particular deck relies heavily on ETB damage effects, which can be used to clear the way for assaults. Since my Dragons have numerous ways to garner haste, it means that I can decimate threats, then attack my opponent's life points directly - oops, wrong tcg

A wonderful addition is Frontier Siege for this very reason. While it does risk my own dragon dying, it also is wonderful removal in general. Notice that it is a "may" ability, which means I do not have to allow my dragon to die to a much larger threat. Then again, if Miirym is in play, I'm effectively getting 2 spot-removals for the price of one. Alternatively, if I am against a faster opponent or a combo-centric deck, I can always choose Khans and opt to add instead.

A wonderful addition to the deck, I see you have Savage Ventmaw and Klauth, Unrivaled Ancient is Old Gnawbone. Don't be afraid to add more legendary dragons to your list, because the clone copies that Miirym make are specifically listed as non-legendary, which I feel is where her true power comes from.

Speaking of which, one supremely strong utility creature in the deck is Hellkite Tyrant. Since EDH players make large use of artifacts, but artifact removal is scarce, you can take full advantage of this and steal their toys right out from under their noses. You also gain the ability, with haste, to strip the resources of two opponents at once! And if you make an additional token copy, you can hit all three and be miles ahead of the competition.

Just realize that a well-oiled Miirym deck will make you public enemy #1. Expect some archenemy matches in your near future. And don't be surprised when players hold grudges and retaliations against you. I once played against a guy who singularly focused on me for an entire game, despite me doing literally nothing because I had no ramp and wasn't drawing into lands. But that's a story for another day.

TypicalTimmy on Favorite pulls you've had

3 months ago

Have you ever had a pack where you open it and your heart just skips a beat, because you pulled something you've been wanting or were completely not expecting?

The reason I am asking is because Facebook sent me a notification that today, seven years ago on 10/12/2015 I pulled a Savage Ventmaw. This was a few months after I began playing.

Never heard of the card before. So I posted a picture of it and captioned it with:

  • "Bought a booster pack when I went shopping today and got this beast of a card in it. Ironically, I literally just built a RG deck last night all about slamming down instant and sorcery damage on red, and raising armies on green. Oh, sweet god this is gonna be great."

Long time friends and followers of mine on here know how much Savage Ventmaw means to me, and I can't believe I actually have that moment immortalized on Facebook.

Genuinely brought back some old, happy memories of sitting in Steak & Shake and / or IHOP after work with my friends, learning the game and playing after a long 3rd shift in a factory.


Do you have any cards like that? Memorable pulls, that mean something to you?

multimedia on Miirym’s Temur Dragons

4 months ago

Hey, you're welcome.

Sure, an Ancient Dragon would fit, but I don't think Ancient Bronze Dragon or all the other Ancient Dragons are worth their price. All are wildly overpriced since their power relies on randomness of the die. Yes, you could roll a 20, but you could also roll a 1. For the price of one Ancient Dragon you could instead make quite a few card upgrades.

A lower price Dragon to consider adding is Hellkite Charger because it's an infinite attack combo with Savage Ventmaw. Miirym creates a copy of Ventmaw, then two attacking Ventmaws + Charger can infinite trigger Charger as long as all three Dragons can keep attacking. Dragons like to attack, an infinite attack combo as wincon helps.

Niv-Mizzet, Parun is really good in multiplayer Commander and when you control two Niv then it can be a huge advantage. Irenicus's Vile Duplication is new card in Dominaria United and it's powerful for less than $3. Make a token copy of Miirym or any other Dragon you control.

Slashdance on Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm: Double Dragon

5 months ago

Yeah, basically Cursed Mirror or Doubling Season result in more dragons than exist tokens in the universe, lol. Good stuff!

@ Vlasiax Maybe Savage Ventmaw has a place in the deck, but I'm not sure about Aggravated Assault. The combo is good, but having to make room for them might be an issue, and off theme a bit. I'll leave that to Forkbeard.

I have a Sylvan Library, but actually took it out of my other dragon deck. No doubt it's strong, but with some already synergistic card draw available already, it felt like a "win more" card for my particular deck. I don't have a mana crypt, but if I did I don't think I'd use it, but that's just more of me keeping the power level of my deck in check.

TypicalTimmy on Imoti in a Miirym deck

5 months ago

Well, Niv is copied upon ETB, not cast.

So Niv sits on the stack while you Cascade into one of the others.

I actually added Maelstrom Wanderer during my last upgrade to test the waters with it. But your idea likely is a bit more stable.

I was actually thinking of adding Kruphix, God of Horizons to hold onto the mana from Savage Ventmaw and Klauth, Unrivaled Ancient as well as just generally pooling unused mana. Even considered Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy to bypass the whole draw, cast and mana issues. Getting 7+ mana is easy. Getting something to use it on? Eh not so much.

thefiresoflurve on Thousands of health? Not a problem

5 months ago

Capricopian -> Protean Hydra? Both enter as 4 mana 3/3s, and while

1) Protean Hydra doesn't interact with Genesis Hydra very well 2) Protean Hydra doesn't have inherent Trample Buuuut

Protean Hydra can get hella huge super quick. :D (Also people can't bribe it)

Steelbane Hydra is also great for repeated artifact/enchantment removal in creature form (albeit a bit expensive).

if you end up adding Aggravated Assault, you should also consider Bear Umbra and Savage Ventmaw, since those are good value cards in and of themselves that will also win games on the spot with an Aggravated Assault out.

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