Creature — Dragon
Flying Whenever Savage Ventmaw attacks, gain . You don't lose this mana at the end of steps and phases until the end of your turn.
|Want (3)||DJGam-G , Dragero , GekkostatesOfAmerica|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Savage Ventmaw occurrence in decks from the last year
Savage Ventmaw Discussion
1 week ago
Soul of the Harvest is fantastic for Xenagos. It smooths out draws and tramples.
Quartzwood Crasher does nasty stuff, making bigger and bigger tokens.
You've got a couple of X spells, so I'll suggest running Reap the Past. Put enough into the X and you'll recover nicely from a boardwipe.
Hunter's Insight is fantastic draw and got reprinted recently.
1 month ago
Might want to look into adding these cards for combat step potency. Berserkers' Onslaught, Aggravated Assault, Domri, Anarch of Bolas, Savage Ventmaw, Rampaging Baloths, Skarrgan Hellkite, End-Raze Forerunners, terrastodon, Kogla, the Titan Ape, Scourge of the Throne
And these cards for card-draw and mana ramp Beast Whisperer, Garruk's Uprising, Castle Garenbrig, Llanowar Elves, Temple of Abandon, Gruul Turf, Sheltered Thicket, Cragcrown Pathway Flip, Return of the Wildspeaker, Elvish Mystic, Hunter's Insight, Ilysian Caryatid, Guardian Project, Bonders' Enclave, Nylea, Keen-Eyed,Lifecrafter's Bestiary
And the cuts I were thinking of could be Vivien, Champion of the Wilds, Spearbreaker Behemoth, Giant Adephage, Spidersilk Armor, Mistcutter Hydra, Shifting Ceratops, Sunder Shaman, Voracious Hydra, Rhonas's Monument, Blood Mist
This are just my first initial thoughts on the deck.
2 months ago
There are other cuts to consider as well, but I feel these are the more noteworthy ones....
Ashaya, Soul of the Wild - No direct synergy with Xenagos, you want a beater with evasion or protection
Beast Whisperer - Better in decks that are lower to the ground that can better use it's ability
Brash Taunter - "No synergy with Xenagos"
God-Eternal Rhonas - Better in decks that go wide, this gets easily chump blocked. You rarely have more than 1 creature out at a time
Klothys, God of Destiny - "No synergy with Xenagos"
Leyline Tyrant - Better in red decks, while not recomending it, glorybringer would be better IMO as it acts as removal as well
Phylath, World Sculptor - No synergy with....
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger - Not enough ramp to hard cast, no cheating effects (which wont even give you a cast trigger)
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre - See above
Shadowspear - Meta call? Better to have creatures with trample or more ramp and card draw in this slow
Triumph of the Hordes - Hit or miss. Playing a beater, hoping it survives, casting this next turn and hoping they dont have removal. Ignoring the feelbad of infect
Berserkers' Onslaught - Winmore
Vernal Bloom - Symmetrical ramp which you can't even take full advantage of
Nissa, Who Shakes the World - This is ok, I like the vigilance and getting essentially a 6/6. Rather have something more impactful.
Atarka, World Render - Beater with evasion
Balefire Dragon - Beater with evasion that also destroys decks that go wide
Carnage Tyrant - Beater with protection, evasion and anti-blue. Nice to use a mass draw spell knowing they can't remove the creature in response
Etali, Primal Storm - Not needed, but fun! Lots of value, doesn't require combat damage
Farhaven Elf - Ramp for T4 Xenagos
Fierce Empath - Tutor
Inferno Titan - Removal
Kogla, the Titan Ape - Removal
Malignus - GG target player
Savage Ventmaw - Beater with evasion and helps build tempo
Scourge of the Throne - Destroy people's lifetotal
Shaman of Forgotten Ways - Ramp and potential wincon
Siege Behemoth - Beater with evasion
Somberwald Sage - Ramp
Springbloom Druid - Ramp for T4 Xenagos
Yavimaya Hollow - Protection
Turntimber, Serpentine Wood - Land when you need it, beater when you don't
Dread Statuary - Manland to be used as potential beater or for draw spell
Rishkar's Expertise - Draw + Tempo. Powerful!
Life's Legacy - Draw
Momentous Fall - Similar to above, to be used in response to removal
Berserk - Use on selvala, malignus or even an opposing creature attacking one of your opponents!
Sylvan Library - Nice but not needed
2 months ago
Hey, you're very welcome. I like the changes you've made. You've asked many questions :) I will try to answer each one. In this comment I'll explain the Scion of the Ur-Dragon combo better with some unfortunate changes and I'll answer other questions in another comment later on.
I've given you incorrect information about the combo using Savage Ventmaw. The only way Savage can be part of this combo is if it's already on the battlefield and can attack not tutored for by Scion. You can't change Scion into Savage and then attack, make the 6 mana and then change into another Dragon with Scion. This not how Scion works instead you have to do all the changing into Dragons when you first activate Scion with many activations. If you want to change into multiple Dragons with Scion then you must do it all at the same time. When Scion changes into a Dragon it loses it's original ability to activate/change into a Dragon instead it has all the abilities as well as power/toughness of the Dragon it changed into.
You can get around this by taking advantage of the stack by putting many activations of Scion to change into different Dragons onto the stack and then resolve each trigger one at a time. Each activation is a trigger and when it resolves from the stack will change Scion into that Dragon therefore you can change many times which tutors for and puts many Dragons into your graveyard. This lets you stack many activations with Scion, but you must do it all at once for the combo. The last trigger you resolve Scion will become that Dragon until end of turn.
Taking Savage Ventmaw out of the combo it costs 7 mana. This 7 mana is not including paying 5 for Scion. Scion needs to be on the battlefield already and able to attack. If you want to do this combo with Scion the same turn you play it, if it has haste, then the combo is not worth it since it will cost 12 mana.
7 mana for the combo, this is how it's paid in order , for two activations of Scion and then to reanimate Bladewing with Teneb for a total of 7 mana:
- Attack with Scion.
- At Declare Blockers step pay activate Scion for Bladewing the Risen.
- While that trigger is on the stack, pay activate Scion for Teneb, the Harvester.
- Resolve first Scion trigger which puts Bladewing in your graveyard and resolve the second Scion trigger which puts Teneb in your graveyard.
- Scion is now Teneb, deal combat damage to a player with Teneb.
- Teneb's ability will trigger, resolve Teneb's trigger, pay and reanimate Bladewing.
- Bladewing ETB and reanimates Teneb.
- Scion is Teneb therefore the Legendary Rule will apply when real Teneb is reanimated.
- Choose real Teneb and remove Scion.
- You end up on the battlefield with Teneb and Bladewing with Scion in your graveyard.
The point of this combo is to tutor for and get Teneb onto the battlefield since then he can reanimate Dragons in your graveyard each attack after. The Legendary Rule prevents ending up with both Scion and Teneb on the battlefield because when Teneb is reanimated by Bladewing Scion is Teneb. When this happens the Legendary Rule goes into effect where as you must choose one of the Tenebs and other is removed from the battlefield/put into your graveyard. You will choose real Teneb and let Scion be removed since ending up with real Teneb is the reason you're doing the combo.
You don't want your opponent to block Scion because then Scion can change into Teneb and connect to do combat damage to a player to trigger Teneb. Even if your opponent doesn't block Scion there's still a stop at the Declare Blockers step where you can activate Scion. If opponent does block Scion which could kill Scion as Teneb then activate and change into a different Dragon who will not die in combat if blocked.
4 mana for the combo, this is how it's paid in order , for two activations of Scion and then how ever much you have available or 24 life.
Combo with Atarka:
- Before you attack pay activate Scion for Moltensteel Dragon.
- While that trigger is on the stack, pay activate Scion for Atarka, World Render.
- Resolve first Scion trigger change Scion into Moltensteel, but before you resolve the second Scion trigger activate Moltensteel's pump.
- Pay as much as you have or pay 2 life per activation.
- Activate 12 times that can be a total of 24 life to pump Scion's power +14.
- Resolve second Scion trigger, Scion becomes Atarka with 20 power/4 toughness.
- Attack with Scion who is Atarka gain double strike.
- Do 40 damage to an opponent.
Just like how you can manipulate the stack of triggers with Scion activations you can do that with Moltensteel since it's activation can be pay for at instant speed you can put activations on the stack and resolve them before you resolve the second Scion trigger to change into Atarka. Manipulating the stack means you can move triggers around and resolve them in whatever order you choose. In this case you manipulate the stack to resolve all the Moltensteel pump triggers before you resolve the second Scion trigger that turns Scion into Atarka.
With Atarka, World Render you have to activate Scion before you attack, but with Dragon Tyrant you don't have to because he has double strike and doesn't need to gain it by attacking. If using Tyrant you can change the order of the combo and do it all in combat. You first attack with Scion, if he isn't blocked at Declare Attackers step activate Scion twice first for Moltensteel and then for Tyrant. Resolve first Scion trigger for Moltensteel, then pump, then resolve second Scion trigger for Tryant.
Using Atarka with this combo you give away what you are doing because you must activate Scion before you attack to gain double strike from Atarka. Tyrant you can be more sneaky since you can activate Scion in combat at the last possible time after you know that Scion is not going to be blocked for a lethal Tyrant hit.
Scion doesn't keep abilities of Dragons you change into. After you change into a Dragon Scion loses the abilities of the Dragon before it. The ability that Scion can use is the ability of the Dragon it currently is and only that Dragon. The exception to this is if Scion gains an ability such as double strike from Atarka, World Render or if you pump or add +1/+1 counters to Scion because he's gaining those effects thus they stay with Scion even if it changes into another Dragon.
The way you activate Scion is how the Dragon you want to change into ability reads. If you want Scion to be Ojutai, Soul of Winter then you must change into her before you attack since her ability triggers when attack which means at Declare Attackers step after Combat Phase begins. Atarka, World Render and Utvara Hellkite are same way, you must change into one of them before you declare attackers.
Any Dragon who has a does combat damage to a player ability such as Balefire Dragon you can wait with Scion after you attack. If you attack with Scion and it's not blocked then you can activate it at the Declare Blockers step and change into Balefire before you do combat damage to a player which then will trigger Balefire.
Sorry for the confusion with Scion as it can be a tricky card to play, but because of the stack and instant speed activation you can take real advantage of it's tutor ability with Dragons.
2 months ago
I may need your explanation afterall, I'm trying to figure out how you got to the combo-cost of 11 (or five with Savage Ventmaw)
In general I know the plan is to use Scion of the Ur-Dragon to tutor any dragon I want from my Library to the Graveyard, and then have Teneb, the Harvester put them from the Graveyard onto the Battlefield, and that you get Teneb by using Scion.
What I believe you're trying to do is: Play Scion (5-cost), then have him attack after transforming into Savage Ventmaw (I guess we assume he has haste? If not you wouldn't need to account for the 5 from playing Scion (except for having enough to cast him in the first place, but that probably wouldn't have to be considered for the combo in general?)) then transform into Teneb and optionally use his ability (which you don't seem to have accounted for so in this case no) and then finally, in the second main phase transform him once more into Bladewing the Risen. (For a total of 11 mana: 6 for transformations (covered by Savage Ventmaw) and the 5 from casting Scion.)
With Bladewing though, upon re-reading, would that work? Because Bladewing's ability is an ETB trigger, Scion's text reads: "...becomes a copy of that card..." Since Scion is already on the battlefield, wouldn't that fail to trigger Scion(as Bladewing)'s ability?
In short your math leads me to believe you intend to bring Teneb back from the Graveyard via a copied Bladewing, although I don't think that would work because of the trigger requirement.
An alternative solution (assuming Scion(as Teneb)'s attack lands on the player) is to use the copied Teneb's ability to revive the actual Teneb, which including the mysterious 5 mana and Savage ventmaw is only one more (specifically black) mana to cast.
Your continued guidance is greatly appreciated. I think I've finalised my deck, barring more advice and post-assembly adjustments like additional land or removal.
2 months ago
Hey, well done with precon upgrade on a budget.
Scion of the Ur-Dragon is one of the best Dragons for Dragon tribal being a repeatable Dragon tutor. Scion could replace Wardscale Dragon. Scion's ability to change into a Dragon can be done at instant speed which means during combat you can change into different Dragons whenever there's a stop at a combat phase.
Scion's ability goes well with Savage Ventmaw, Teneb, the Harvester and Bladewing the Risen which is a three Dragon combo to end up with Scion and cheat Teneb/Bladewing on the battlefield. Then if Teneb lives he can reanimate other Dragons you tutor for with Scion. Savage is part of the combo because you tutor for him first with Scion, before you attack which then gives you 6 mana to activate Scion three times during combat. The combo takes 11 mana therefore Savage making 6 mana means you only need 5 mana for other sources. Would you like me to explain this combo?
Consider cutting a few of the least good Dragons for more Dragon support? Rhythm of the Wild and Temur Ascendancy are in the maybeboard and they could replace two Dragons such as Vorosh, the Hunter and Darigaaz Reincarnated. The repeatable effects of Rhythm and Ascendancy are much better than what these Dragons can provide. Faeburrow Elder is also in the maybeboard and it's a much better ramp source than Mana Geode. Crux of Fate and Eerie Ultimatum are also in the maybeboard they could replace Spit Flame and Palace Siege.
There's 20 lands here of the 36 that will always ETB tapped which is a lot. The Tri lands on a budget are worth always ETB tapped, the rest are not. My advice is cut the Bounce lands and Scry lands for other types of lands. The combination of lots of Tri lands and Bounce lands is not good; play either one, not both in the same manabase.
Exotic Orchard is budget staple Rainbow land. By adding a few more basic lands then the 5 Battle lands are budget options since they have interaction with lots of basic lands. Cinder Glade, Smoldering Marsh, Sunken Hollow, Prairie Stream, Canopy Vista, can get each of these for less than $2 at TCGPlayer with Vista being the most expensive.
Manabase upgrades to consider:
- Add 2x Forest > Temple of Malady and Temple of Triumph
- Exotic Orchard > Temple of Epiphany
- Cinder Glade > Gruul Turf
- Smoldering Marsh > Rakdos Carnarium
- Prairie Stream > Orzhov Basilica
- Sunken Hollow > Izzet Boilerworks
You have Farseek and it can search for one of these Battle lands which is helpful for color fixing.
Good luck with your deck.
3 months ago
3 months ago
Hey, Savage Ventmaw when tutored for with Scion before attacking can make mana for three more activations of Scion. This can be used for a reanimation line with Teneb, the Harvester and Bladewing the Risen which you end up with all three Dragons on the battlefield and a Teneb who can attack again and reanimate again on your next turn. Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund gives Dragons you control haste and that's powerful when you reanimate a lot of them at once especially with Utvara Hellkite.
Looks like you forgot Sol Ring? With such a high budget is there some reason not playing any tutors: Demonic Tutor and Enlightened Tutor? Buried Alive is powerful with reanimation strategies because it also tutors. You have ABUR Duals, Shock lands and Trimoes which makes Nature's Lore and Farseek good two drop land ramp spells. City of Brass, Mana Confluence, Cascading Cataracts, Unclaimed Territory are some land upgrades to consider.
Cards to consider cutting:
- Boros Garrison
- Gruul Turf
- Izzet Boilerworks
- Rakdos Carnarium
- Dragonskull Summit
- Rootbound Crag
- Path of Ancestry
- Mana Geode
- Commander's Sphere
- Genesis Ultimatum
- Monastery Siege
- Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire
- Slumbering Dragon
- O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami
Good luck with your deck.