I finally found something bad about WAR (Bonds done wrong.)

Lore forum

Posted on April 13, 2019, 4:58 p.m. by BMHKain

After all 5 Bonds in WAR have been spoiled, I've let myself imagining how the Future of Ravnica as a Plane should work. Now we have true Alarian Symbols (Why didn't we have a sequel to the Shards of Alara Block... Or Watermarks for each Shard?), there is one thing I'm finally upset at WotC for this:

All Bonds are that of Allied 3-Colors.

This could've been fixed very easily w/o a problem. In 2 other ways also! We could have the Wedge-Style Colors straight out of Pre-Dragons of Tarkir sets of the Tarkir Block. Hell, we could've even had an Homage to the Nephilim (I don't fragging care about those cards; they are just as Rip-Easy like Nicol Bolas during the Legends Set; oh, & you all need to give Brawl more of a chance than ever; Oathbreaker's only flaw is actually the biggest that they had; Choose a Walker, BUT, you are also forced to use their key card representing them; which not all Walkers have. Just Play Brawl at least; it's more balanced, behaves the same as Standard, & CMDR Damage isn't a true problem anymore.

But I digress yet again. When the Half Angel/Half Demon Abominations brought us 4 colors, what I'd actually want more from WotC is the idea of setting all enemyship aside for good. Just imagine these enemy guilds actually appreciating, & learning from their former foes:

& = Life is also a kind of Progress, like all of everything. The Selesnya Conclave may be , but their agendas are actually comparable to Licht Kreis of Under Night IN-BIRTH fame, having an agenda though in control, is a perfect example of Peace-Loving Religious Extremists that would definitely at least earn the alliance of either The Golgari Swarm, &/or even The Orzhov Syndicate . Yep, This Religious Conclave is PRIME Abzan Material. Both the Izzet League, & the Selesnya Conclave are true villain groups at heart, & progress is literally all Dimensional layers; not just our 4D (Yep! I'm not kidding you! If we're in 3D, our world would be motionless at the status we're at. Dimension 4? Time; as in a Passage of Standard Time. It best resembles Cones on the vertical dimension. But what is Dimension 5? XP) status we're in. Progress is Mathematics. Progress is Life. Progress is even Infinity Transcendence. "All these people in my life... I don't want to lose anymore! & I won't give up this universe of hours! (God Gundam turns Gold, & nullifies DG Urube's attack.) (DG Urube: Uhh...?) Masters Taught me that! Our Great Homeland! OUR PRECIOUS PLANET EARTH! IS THE HIGHEST FORM OF LIFE!"

Comparable to: Ink-Treader Nephilim / Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis

See? That is not hard at all to think about! Here's another if you wish to have a good idea; oh, & if this is too much, don't fret! I'd still be happy anyway if WotC even did Wedge Alliances.

& = Somebody tell that idiot Teysa Karlov The Gruul Clans are much better than they were after "That Cyclopean Beast" died after some time. Just because The Gruul Clans are Savages, doesn't mean they aren't without some kind of mind; Shamans. While actual Barbaric members just want to strike at anything they see, the Shamans are pretty much the intelligence Gruul has. Suffice to say, The Orzhov Syndicate demands Money as a Mafia-Like Gang, & if you have none, prepare to have a Blood Tithe oversizing More than 100% of all your blood you will ever have your entire life. Blatant Hypocrisy. While the Gruul Clans are savage indeed, the Orzhov Syndicate demands your loyalty to them, or you'd have to pay the rest of aforementioned Tithe as a Spirit; Departed Souls. So, how can MTG's Worst Character ever (Hint, Everyone loves her but me. & is .) Support the Gruul Clans' cause? Not even The Titans from AEONS ago would've thought of this; those who the Gruul Clans kill alone, are already; supposedly, becoming Departed Souls as well. This could apply to all guilds actually; even when the Ghost Council of Orzhova , & Obzedat, Ghost Council were all killed by Kaya, Bane of the Dead . Shamans are meant to come in contact with the realm of the dead; Spirits both good & evil. But what to do with the more barbaric of the Gruul Clans? They've wanted to kill the Plane of Existence they're feet have been on in the first place! Well, oddly, This Mafia had more Action Extorting others as they drain their blood for profit, & their Growth only made them the supreme Monetary Group in the Multiverse. The Orzhov Syndicate & The Gruul Clans are not so different than you'd think. "Let me clarify the economics for you Gina. Sensational patients bring recognition. Recognition brings money. And money keeps Wellhaven's doors open. You should be thanking me." Better than the MCU version by a MILE! So... Maybe Teysa should thank Domri Rade after AEONS of Genocide? I, mean, The Gruul Clans are far better than the Guildless anyway.

Comparable to: Dune-Brood Nephilim / Saskia the Unyielding

& = Taking Order & Chaos in moderation, 50/50 style. The Boros Legion could act like an actual Military; planning out all possible outcomes; you know; actually Military planning? & The House of Dimir can hide evidence until actual confirmation of such design is in order. In fact, what if I told you Chaos > Order anyway? Both The House of Dimir, & The Boros Legion; which have their own ways of chaos; The House of Dimir can not only do this in secret, but makes matters worse for others. The Boros Legion is just an army of Mindless Soldiers, Angels, even stuff you'd wish weren't a part of this. Enforcing w/ raw emotion, these both describe Chaos in their own unique way; take it from a famous Psychologist I'm making anonymous about this: "You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star" This quote actually states that Chaos; an Idea of fiction entirely seen as evil, but is actually seen by so few as a good thing more than Cosmos, Order, the like. If that philosophy is wrong, despite from a credible source, I dunno what to think...

Comparable to: Yore-Tiller Nephilim / Breya, Etherium Shaper

& = The Circle of Life benefits from even Zygotes or even the undead. If The Golgari Swarm, & the Azorius Senate is to coexist with one another, A mere reference to The Lion King; which demonstrates life & death are entirely a way of life; an Unthinkable Natural Law (A Fan-Based Translation of a crappy Touhou Project Game, for reference.) neither Justice, nor anyone; Active, Inactive, Dead, even Transcending Death, can stop. It is a part of all of us, & it would take a damn good stasis to stop something us humans have to accept when we witness our first death in our lives. So how does the Swarm, & Senate coexist with one another? Just let time pass, & maybe more than just Ravnica as a whole can learn from what should've been a Swahiili Folk Tale, but satirizes a crappy tale by an even crapier playright. But it still stood the test of time anyway, so, maybe a view? (Just watch the Reboot of The Lion King.)

Comparable to: Witch-Maw Nephilim / Atraxa, Praetors' Voice

& = Momir Vig, Simic Visionary is a bigger villain than Rakdos, the Showstopper altogether. After the former's death (?), The Simic Combine eventually brought up Prime Speaker Vannifar , who alloed the Simic Combine more freedom for creature creation; given the guidelines of said Guild. This resulted in more chaos than Momir Vig could only dream of doing; & Their Selfishness from the bias from other Guilds, actually prove both the Simic Combine, & The Cult of Rakdos, aren't so different as they would believe to be. "All souls are equal and alike, and have the similar nature and qualities."

Comparable to: Glint-Eye Nephilim / Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder

Yeah, I might have crossed many lines, but I still think there should also be Bonds representing Wedge Colors, &, as far as this post goes, Bonds that set all enemyships aside for good; a bit of genius borrowed from the Nephilim Scum that I don't even know if they were driven to extinction already. I apologize for making this kind of topic; It was paved w/ good intentions, but I really would like my 4 Color Stuff for real now. These have been the biggest enemies between Guilds since the beginning of all this. I really just made this so such enemyships can have a way to coexist between them, & likely some others. Oh, one last thing, If you find anything wrong about my opinions about this (& trust me, you actually might.); just tell me your thoughts how such enemyships would be set aside, all while actually having a possible alliance. This took me all day just to make; I hope you're glad. This wasn't a Bad Netflix Original Movie I made in the first place. Or a ruination of SPIRIT: Stallion of the Cimarron in the form of a female-targeted Pony based series that makes MY LITTLE PONY: FRIENDSHIP IS MAGIC look like Taysir of Rabiah, Nicol Bolas, & even Urza's decapitated head (All Awesome). & it takes SO MUCH for me to say MLP is better than just "Something without Representation" DX

Alright. Enough of this. I'd like some thought for this, please. I've other stuff to do though... Apologies again, & one more apology for the huge wall of text... Thank you for your time. ^_^

cdkime says... #2

The purpose of these cards are to show the Guilds coming together, which wedges do fairly well. Consider--each of these pairs has a single colour in common, and the other two colours are allied colours. It's the logical way to pair the Guilds off if you're trying to show unity.

The cards themselves being a single colour also allows Wizards to highlight the unitizing factor; you can't do that with four-colour pairs.

April 13, 2019 6:08 p.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #3

Consider the following:

Bond of Discipline is an Esper-identity card (With regards to lore / flavor), and Esper is an incredibly oppressive shard. Between black's destructive nature, white's boardstate suppression, and blue's spell control Esper itself is extremely damning in the game. The Orzhov Syndicate seeks to control the economy and debts, while the Azorius Senate seeks to control laws. By controlling the economy and laws, you create an actual functioning Government: Something Ravnica could be argued to not have as of yet.

Bond of Insight is a Grixis-identity card (With regards to lore / flavor), and Grixis is also an oppressive shard. What Grixis is able to do that Esper can't do as well is utilize red's draw potential and burn impact. Red can arguably speed up Grixis to become faster than Esper, at the cost of discarding cards to do so. So it makes sense that this particular card punishes the caster as well - but gives them benefits from it. With the House of Dimir and the Izzet League joining forces, you get the guild that holds secrets and the guild that holds knowledge working together. You now establish Ravnica's corner-stone in education.

Bond of Revival is a Jund-identity card (With regards to lore / flavor), and Jund is brutal and fast. Between black's kill and self-discard spells, red's passion for charging into combat expecting creatures to die, and green's potential for huge creatures that will likely be the target for removal spells it makes sense that this card would be Graveyard-specific. The Cult of Rakdos loves to murder, and the Golgari Swarm loves to reanimate. Combining their forces, you end up creating an army that is on par with Bolas' Eternals. You also establish a force for dark arts such as necromancy. While this does not directly help Ravnica, what it does is puts a check and balance on the other morally virtuous aspects as well as acts as a foil to the prosperity of life.

Bond of Passion is a Naya-identity card (With regards to lore / flavor), and what Naya excels at is creating giant forces which are able to overcome and triumph against all odds. I must say, I personally do not like this card. The version of Act of Treason combined with a Shock on top of it just doesn't feel as good as it could have been. Either you should keep control of the creature, without the 2 damage or the damage should have been a lot higher. Perhaps 4 damage. Either way, by merging the Boros Legion and the Gruul Clans, you partner up the loyalty and resolve of a military with the cunning and ferocity of the savages. You now establish a military might who will fear nothing and will do everything in it's power to protect the world as a whole - rather than their individual districts. There is now nowhere an invading force can come from that won't be noticed.

Lastly, Bond of Flourshing is a Bant-identity card (With regards to lore / flavor), and Bant absolutely excels at fast play - if you design the deck properly. Between blue's draw, white's love of tokens and life, and green's ramp and also passion for tokens you will be able to expand a boardstate so large that it becomes almost impossible to stop unless you are hit with a steady stream of wipes. It makes sense that this card would look for a permanent, and the fact it costs merely is intensely insane. It honestly should have cost more, especially for the 3 life you get as well. What the Simic Combine brings to the table is the ability to craft new life from old parts, and what the Selesnya Conclave brings is the ability to filter and grow. So by combining them, you are now able to maximize your efforts and push evolution to it's absolute limits. This allows Ravnica to flourish, rebuild, and strengthen not just the populations after the war, but the planet as a whole.

Effectively, these guilds combine to each take over a key role of what Ravnica was lacking in.

  • Esper = Government
  • Grixis = Education
  • Jund = Passion / Identity / Morality = Philosophy
  • Naya = Military on both large and small scales
  • Bant = Arts & renewal

And all of these are cornerstones that you can see in any developed nation in our real world. I feel doing so was brilliant and well deserved. I'm curious as to if we will ever return to Ravnica in the future, now with five shards instead of ten guilds?


EDIT: For some reason Bond of Revival, Bond of Passion & Bond of Flourshing are not able to be linked as of yet; I can not post this with them in brackets. Sorry about that. Here are the URL links, instead.

April 13, 2019 7:36 p.m.

ZendikariWol says... #4

I have even more problems with your interpretation than with Wizards’.

Let’s start with Selesnya + Izzet. They have nothing to agree upon. They don’t dislike each other, they disagree on very little- in fact, the Izzet hold very few beliefs in general! They just want to invent! There’s no epiphany here and nothing of interest. And your classification of either of these guilds as “villain groups” is laughable. The Selesnya live in more-or-less perfect harmony, and the Izzet are just chill inventors. Neither of them have any specific ill intent, as a group, toward anything or anyone else.

Second, Gruul and Orzhov. Why? The only way they could coexist is with the Gruul as pawns of the Orzhov. More importantly, the Orzhov are a CHURCH! The Gruul are ANARCHISTS!!! What do anarchists do with churches with fancy stained glass windows? They burn them down.

Third, Boros + Dimir. Are the Boros tacticians plotting out every outcome or are they dumb muscle? Choose one. Not only have you contradicted yourself, but also the Dimir stand for everything the Boros legion despises. The Boros are not sneaky. The Boros do not manipulate. And that is ALL that House Dimir does.

Fourth, Azorius and Golgari. Did you miss the whole arc about the Azorius jailing the Golgari? Like, all the Golgari they could find? The Golgari are miscreants, assassins, and outcasts. The Azorius are lawyers. I’m amazed by your capacity to find the two guilds that would get along the literal very worst for each of these colors.

Fifth, Simic and Rakdos. The Simic are meticulous, intellectual, focused on improving as much as is possible. The Rakdos take everyone as they are, don’t bother with thinking, and blow up stuff cuz it’s a good laugh. So how do an intellectual and a psychotic court jester get along? Oh, right. They don’t. They just try to kill each other.

April 13, 2019 11:34 p.m.

BMHKain says... #5

...

Hmph. I was working on some things until I found all disagreeing for reasons against my own. Welp, Alara is one thing, when one's not willing to make a block w/ 4 color factions; even in the far-ranged forseeable future, & not even Dragons of Tarkir has Wedge support, I'm not intending this to be literal bashing, & that if there is nothing those two Guild type opposition have to agree with...

...

I was trying to find at least one thing such things can ally w/ in a way. After all, ALL 10 Guilds; & anything at all at least have Progress; it's not just exclusive to .

...

Anyways here's a question that I blame myself for others thinking I'm wrong; getting likes for opinions I made; loathed worse than what I worked my butt off for nothing, backed up by literal bare minimum: What would at least; The Wedge Color Combos be like to you as Bonds?

...

Or do you oppose me for mere opinions straight out of liking Kong's stuff in the MUGEN Community? Very sorry all this happened. I have absolutely no time to deal w/ corrections that can be fixed; I didn't do this to myself; I just wanted a decent opinion of a perspective even WotC won't explore again, EVER (Hint: You are not Number 4; & I'd care less about that franchise as well...)

Overall, I didn't mean any hate, but if you can be truly neutral; & not go ahead, & keep proving me wrong, either...

A: Wedge > Shard

B: Find some better reasons why such enemy groups to one another can ally themselves by even just one reason.

C: Just leave this to die, & not cause a damn Flame War Infinity against me on levels beyond that of the MTG Multiverse. & let The Wanderer Planeswalk all over here; getting burnt by the carnage.

D: Agree to Disagree, & just stop this topic at once; as I do apologize for all this. We all need to calm down.

All this Hate in the form of correcting me for reasons I didn't know in the first place, is actually making my mana induce self-fear. I'd recommend closing this after this post; but knowing similar situations in the past, if you shut me down even after all this, Mina-san.

If we can let this manure go, & shut it, so we can forget 4/13/19, that would be the best situation I'd like to be. Close this topic. At least Dragons can't thrive in the Blind Eternities (Not counting actual Walkers.)

(If nobody accepts my apologies, & keeps this alive; it would be like me (Nahiri) vs all (Sorin).)

One more time, I'm sorry I even made this garbage in the first place. Why am I apologizing like a madman? I'm practically brought to the point of you all being kings & me into someone worse than a Beggar (& all apologies I typed are not taken back by outside ideas for this post. I feel more than mere guilt anyway. After all, Match Game did refer to an answer as "Swab the Deck"... >~<)

Just end this topic please...

...Or I'll have to edit the top post of mine to truly show I mean my apologies...

April 14, 2019 12:39 p.m.

ZendikariWol says... #6

Well 1- sorry if I came off as a dick. Totally not my intent here but I can see how it could be viewed that way.

2- the reason WotC has never done 4-color factions is simple. On a budget, it’s difficult to build a three color mana base. Four? Not gonna happen. One could barely make it work in commander but modern, let alone standard!? No.

3- once again I really don’t mean to be an asshole but I can’t understand what you’re saying at all. Is it just me? Idk, your sentence structure and placement are incredibly confusing to me. I can usually get the general gist but any specifics are beyond me.

4- wedge = shard, but Khans > Shards. The colors? Little difference. But the flavor does absolutely go to my bois the Khans, which makes me more partial to those color combos.

5- three people have commented on this thread. It is not a flame war.

6- the comments on this post have been well-reasoned and intelligent. This is NOT a flame war.

7- no need to apologize man. You’re good. We’re all friends here and I think I’ve actually thought up the ideal combination of “bonds” if I may share. Otherwise, unless another fellow would like to discuss, let this thread die ig.

April 14, 2019 6:02 p.m.

RicketyEng says... #7

This was too long for me to get through it all in a timely manner, but the sense I got was concern over the prospect of Ravnica becoming 3- or 4-colour in the future and then discussion on which Guilds could be combined and what they would look like. If I'm wrong in this summary then my comment may be disregarded if it fails to hit a relevant point.

My comment is just that the bonds cycle is only a depiction of Guilds working together in a time of crisis and not meant as an indication of permanent future restructuring. Mark Rosewater has stated this and assures us that there are no plans to start combining Guilds together.

April 15, 2019 8:25 a.m.

cdkime says... #8

BMHKain - I've said this a couple times to you in the past, but it's been a couple months and bears repeating: Whenever you post something and initiate a discussion, you're bound to hear dissenting opinions. In fact, it's quite possible everyone will disagree with you.

However, that's no reason to feel ashamed or to apologize. If everyone agreed, there would be no room for discussion, which would be quite dull.


To provide a response to some of your above:

I gave some thought to how wedges would look, and I think it's possible to justify wedges--it would be a shared colour with an enemy pair, which you could say represents coming together despite differences. There would be two possible ways to structure these pairs. The first set would be:

  • White card representing Orzhov and Selesnya - likely bonding over the somewhat religious nature of their respective guilds.
  • Blue card representing Izzet and Azorius - I think this is a bit of a stretch, but you could probably say something about imposing order on chaos, either through research or law.
  • Glogari and Dimir - something about being in the underbelly of society, working in the shadows to ensure Ravnica continues to function.
  • Boros and Rakdos - Yikes. This probably will not work very well.
  • Simic and Gruul - Probably something about striving for more powerful creatures, either through feats of strength or evolution.

Or, the second possible set:

  • Selesnya and Golgari - each finding their place in the natural order.
  • Azorius and Boros - this works quite well, with each caring about law and order.
  • Dimir and Simic - a bit of an awkward meeting, but I suppose they both love learning new information; just on wildly different topics.
  • Rakdos and Orzhov - both are somewhat cultish, but they really don't bond very well.
  • Gruul and Izzet - one wishes to destroy Ravnica's civilized life; the other are the inventors who make it possible. This would be a bit of an awkward pair.

So, while it's possible to justify, and some of the pairings work fairly well, I think it results in more awkward situations than the wedges that Wizards went with.

Ultimately, this set is driven mostly by story parameters, not necessarily game design ones. I do not think it indicates wedges are favoured over shards by R&D; it's just what worked out best for their story elements.


With regards to there likely never being a set revolving around four colours, the reasons make sense.

Four colour cards are often hard to build, as you only have so much space for rules text. In a blog post somewhere, Rosewater said R&D has tried on many occasions to build four-colour cards, but often falls into the trap of thinking in terms of the colour that is missing, rather than the colours that are present. There are also myriad issues of colour fixing, particularly for Limited. Imagine a set where your prerelease victory is solely decided based on how many (likely green) mana fixing cards you have--that sounds awful.

April 15, 2019 9:54 a.m.

ZendikariWol says... #9

Actually, cdkime and BMHKain, I have been doing some looking in to it and I think I've found the optimal combos... and it's not wedge. I think even more surprisingly, it's not shard either. Let me explain.

Azorius + Dimir: with the resources and reach of the Dimir, the Azorius become a Big Brother force. They have eyes everywhere; on the skies, in the streets... even inside your head. Rife with corruption, often the only way to get by is by bribery and trickery.

Boros + Gruul: a noble warrior group, valuing strength and honor. They seek justice against evildoers and value simplicity and strength.

Golgari + Selesnya: the Selesnya have learned to value life at every degree on the circle, and the Golgari have harmony, at last. Peaceful, nurturing, and accepting of not only people, but the other entities that make life possible- be they scavengers, scroungers, or decomposers.

Izzet + Simic: inventors at heart, these two don't have a lot of trouble getting along. The Simic contribute some biological mechanisms that, when translated to or combined with Izzet technology, can lead to some fascinating results.

Rakdos + Orzhov: the Orzhov have learned to appreciate a new kind of beauty; a spectacle outside of decadence. They admire the bloodshed, the beauty in the chaos. The Rakdos have learned that jewelry is shiny... and sometimes quite dangerous!

April 15, 2019 10:39 a.m.

BMHKain says... #10

I'm afraid I have nil choice but to BUMP this Shahrazad of a nightterror.

WAR's full roster is either almost finished, or complete; depending on its current status.

Apparently, my Vorthos Deck based on MORTAL ENGINES isn't happening after all... Only 3/5 Colors are having Legendary Vehicles; all, Team America style. , & don't have any of this. Very insulting as has quite the support of Artifice so much, so few of their Mono- stuff actually can kill something more "Alive" than Enchantments; which seem more natural that Artifacts if you ask me. Also, I really wanted to make a Mono- Artifacts matter deck; all while shaming the -related factions of the entire Multiverse; & beyond who think Nature is better than science; which it IS one. Has the MTG Team ever realized Progress is all of life, pure, impure, or, ANYTHING? Politics is one , isn't the only one who can do this from the start of 1993, Reanimation of the Dead, & Murder is also this , Immolating whole areas, even making a face also counts , & PLANTING TREES is a major example .

So after all your Ilharging , I'm still trying to find a way for other guilds to work w/o the use of "Bonds"; in which, the other parts are no used to despite being of Shard Status. (Not correct either, bruh.), much less the combinations that failed for that same Ilharging . I'll start w/ the obvious Azorius Senate .

Here's what we have left for them:

Azorius Senate & The Cult of Rakdos = Nope. Lawmages already arrested many performers of such illegal acts; maybe even Massacre Girl , & her Plagiarists.

Azorius Senate & Gruul Clans = DAMMIT! Surely the Gruul has some degree of control! They sided w/ the Boros Legion ; who are quasi-allies with the Senate!

Ugh...

I can't believe I lost a fight of my own I created this for...

Kirei Kotomine: This is how it ends. A momentary Distance in time.

Well, I guess I might be of a genius of Plane creation than all 25+ Years of MTG creation as it is. Remember, those 4 Color CMDRs weren't made by accident.

In my mind, Breya, Etherium Shaper , Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder , Saskia the Unyielding , Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis , even Atraxa, Praetors' Voice probably are all hiding a secret not even MaRo himself wants to admit: There's hint enough a literal Plane of Existence may be in the works; & all five of these creatures mush have a way for them as to why. Breya seems to represent Full Mastery over the artificial; which makes me want to create a Mono- Artifacts matter deck because of this difference. Yidris is Randomizer OMEGA; he is the PRIME CHAOS LORD; which also makes me want to make a Mono- Chaos Deck. Saksia is nothing short of Aggro on the highest end; even being a warrior of the lands & nothing else. But why can't Mono- do this as well? They too have huge creatures one can use, all w/o relying on Ol' Tetsuko-chan . Ol' Kynaios & Tiro seem to be very peaceful Rulers on the Plane of Theros; Easily Group Hug material that, in such a block, will power up sharing while not giving any opponent any deception until YOU win through piece, making me want to also do a Mono- Group Hug Deck. Finally, Atraxa, Praetors' Voice , otherwise known as: THERE'S GOOD WALKERS IN RED! USE THEM DAMMIT!!! Increase in all kinds of resources are great, but, in my mind, Mono- can do all that as well...

I'll leave it to you guy to find a kind of Mono Color CMDR for each type that was ommited from the 4 color identities. This is want I want to use for the job. That, & I actually plan to make a LUDESIA, SPIDERING WITH SCRAPPING Vorthos Deck instead.

Basically What I'm saying is that, even CMDR 2016 supplied enough ideas for a kind of Block based on 5 Factions, each focusing on a certain kind of Decktype; all in 4 colors:

= Creators of Technology that has never been mastered in other Planes. (Artifacts Matter) = Chaos Lords that can alter Fate Sorry, Young Walker, but you'd lose in a battle of Fate Manipulation from Yidris. XP (CHAOS) and are most likely major villains. = Warriors that don't give a damn about info; killing first, no 20Q. (Aggro) = A peaceful group w/o any intent of violence; but can still win wars w/o ever fighting (Group Hug). = A group capable of the highest degree of Science; & its on manipulation of it. (Counters & Tokens)

Now it is your turn. I actually wanted to do all 5 of these; but in the Mono Color excluding them for each kind. If these ideas for 4 Color Faction Descriptions for a foreseeable Plane are stupid, how would you tell me how such groups would work better. MaRo stated (According to someone...) MTG R&D has no plans for this; but the evidence for this is everywhere!

Now for the Mono Color stuff. Ignoring Mana Qualities for a bit, I'd like to do the following; but I can't seem to find the CMDRS that fit for this:

A Mono- Chaos Deck. A Mono- Aggro Deck. A Mono- Group Hug Deck. A Mono- Counters & Tokens Deck. & A Mono- Artifacts Matter Deck.

I've also thought about making a Top 10 ways can do better in cEDH, Card Creation Challenge. Yep, I'm challenging Me, Myself, & I for this; though I might need help from the cEDH Community as these cards must have qualities WotC have allowed in both , , & , while still being good.

All plans set in stone, Since I want to go anti-wheel (Color Wheel obviously.) on this, what might be your best bet for each Individual Mana Color?

Truly sorry for the huge wall of text; I just wanted to Break the Status Quo of Mana even w/ impossibility...

Can't wait to do the LUDESIA Vorthos deck though! Wish I could make a (Jeskai Way) Deck w/ the safety of doing politics; Trump style; but none of the Cards there are good enough; & don't say anything about Partners...

Thanks for reading. I now know this is an impossibility in Ravnica; but might be somewhere else entirely... Why do the 10 Guilds all hate Nephilims…

& apologies for going off-topic for awhile. I just wanted to do 5 Decks that they each are the worst at...

April 18, 2019 12:13 p.m.

BMHKain says... #11

BUMP AS Shahrazad ISN'T BANNED IN CMDR, UNLIKE WHAT WOTC CLAIMS.

(sigh...)

I'll just try this one last time for 4 color Bonds. & I will use The 5 Bonds from WAR as a base. Let's go for the final time; I had to cancel a Superfriends/Avengers Primer just to get help for cutting over 40+ stuff.

Pure enemies w/o a color they lack on their own are out. But what can 5 Bonds do?

Azorius Senate & Gruul Clans : If there is a reason; it's that the Gruul Clans already have allied with the Boros Legion ; & the latter had some kind of alliance w/ the Senate (Expect this reason to keep going.) Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis

Orzhov Syndicate & Izzet League (I dunno.): No idea how they'd work as a team; Unsure if the Izzet League can even comply w/ Azorius Senate law; but they are considered shard allies w/ the House of Dimir. This just might work, but how? Breya, Etherium Shaper

Cult of Rakdos & Simic Combine : Both are fuled with chaos in their own ridiculous way. Though the Combine's more Docile since Momir Vig, Simic Visionary 's departure, these should fit kinda well? Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder

Golgari Swarm & Boros Legion : Erm… The Swarm has an alliance w/ The Gruul Clans? They'd still be Jund, which is a Shard; not a Wedge... Saskia the Unyielding

Selesnya Conlcave & House of Dimir : Uh, maybe the House of Dimir has some kind o alliance w/ the other half of the bond; the Simic Combine? They also seem to like the Izzet League; which are bonded with the House of Dimir... Atraxa, Praetors' Voice

All Ilharging will be put in Charles Nelson Riley's Trash bin where the fanmail that rats on this topic will be thrown out over night; a night at a time.

That's the best I can do sadly. Any other ideas might be just fine w/ me. I'll be going now though... Sorry I put ALL of you through this hell...

April 19, 2019 2:19 p.m.

cdkime says... #12

From mtgcommander.net:

"Commander is played with vintage legal cards. Cards are legal to play with as of their sets' prerelease."

Shahrazad is not Vintage-legal, and thus, definitively, is not Commander legal either.


With regards to the remainder of your post, notice how all your points hinge on "they are connected through another guild". That's not what Wizards was trying to do with the Bond cycle--they wanted to show the guilds as directly connected with one another.

April 19, 2019 2:24 p.m.

BMHKain says... #13

@cdkime: Oh. That explains the Shahrazad thing I suppose. Thanks for the heads up. Well, after that feeble attempt of mine, I decided to give up on such a notion for such scalene-like "bonds". Though it's unfortunate Mark Rosewater doesn't want to do 4 Color groups for a plane of existence; I already have a lot of ideas based on all this; you'd have to look higher up on that notion though. Such ideas seem to fit their playing styles; but the question I'm wondering to myself is: even though MaRo would say no, what exactly kind of Thematic Base should this be based upon? I mean Amonkhet is Egyption Lore related, & even Kylem is based on Sports/e-Sports. I mean what would these 5 kinds of beings fit best in?:

= Master Artificers

= CHAOS using beings beyond the unknown

= Super Aggro Savages

= Peace Loving Group Hug users not needing violence to win fights;

= An army of all kinds that gets bigger & stronger all the time; w/ no end for eternity.

Now you're familiar w/ the idea, & I'vde given up on 4 color Bonds, do you think it's OK to change this topic entirely to this? I'm surprised nobody caught on w/ this Idea... X/

April 20, 2019 4:47 p.m.

RicketyEng says... #14

Those 4-colour descriptions are basically the same descriptions for each of the Commander 2016 4-colour decks.

April 21, 2019 12:53 a.m.

BMHKain says... #15

@RicketyEng: Okay, that's true... Well, it's a shame I can't do something right about 4-Color ideas at all, be it, Ravnican stuff, or even basing such ideas on CMDR 2016 things. So? I wanted to do this: I actually request permission for someone to close this; if this is impossible to do as a whole, what should I do to do a Lost Cause?

April 22, 2019 8:54 a.m.

cdkime says... #16

The issue with making a set designed around four colours is not with the flavour, but rather the practical matters of card design and balancing.

With regards to card design, Wizards has found it very difficult to make cards that feel like they should only be four colours--often, because there's some overlap in colour identity, the cards fell like they could easily be five colours. As such, Wizards tends to think of four colour cards in terms of "what is this card not, so we can distinguish this from a five-colour card?"

Take Atraxa, Praetors' Voice for example. Deathtouch, vigilance, and lifelink are generally not found on Red, and Flying is rare to red outside of Dragons. Further, Proliferate is only found on a single mono-Red card-- Volt Charge . So, Atraxa feels very , rather than feels like a five-colour card.

Designing around what is missing is somewhat problematic--it means you're looking to the negative space, rather than thinking about what the card should be doing. As such R&D would not want to design a set with a large number of four-colour cards.

The next issue is how do you deal with the other cards in the deck? Do you have a number of mono-coloured cards that are on-theme? Then you run into issues with the odd colour out--for example, your W/U/B/R artificers would have issues with mono-Black artificer cards; that's not what mono-black tends to do. Two colours? Possible, but then you're basically making a Ravnica-like set with some nephilim thrown in. Three colours? Three is also very hard to design, particularly three colours that will still be on-theme with a four colour-based faction.

Finally, there's the balancing issues.

For limited you would need to have a sufficient number of lands that supported four-colour decks--otherwise no one would play any of the large four-colour cards. the U/W/B/R cards will be near-unplayable in limited events unless you're playing a five-colour deck, as colour fixing is almost exclusively the purview of Green. Limited events will be decided less by playing and deckbuilding skill, but rather who was lucky enough to get cards that supported a viable manabase.

Moving on to Constructed formats, no one plays four-colour cards outside of Commander. Even then, these cards are generally exclusively found as the commander, not in the 99.

Ultimately, while it is fun to think about four-colour worlds, the design challenges are significant, and the payoff is of limited utility in either Limited or Constructed.

April 22, 2019 9:24 a.m.

BMHKain says... #17

@cdkime: Huh... All right. I think I get the point. Might as well disregard all this in mind; you actually got some good points, sir. Well, might as well close this after all I tried; I got a series of decks to finish as well as making a new one; Mono-, & straight out Immolation...

I dun suppose anyone will close this, please? I believe we have settled the matter via an agreeance anyway.

April 22, 2019 11:55 a.m.

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