Avacyn Restored Update

So now that Tamiyo, the Moon Sage is an actual card, let's invite her over for some Magic: The Gathering!

Tamiyo's abilities seem perfectly suited to this deck. She can:

+1: stall out a player relying on one imposing creature at a time.

-2: profit tremendously in card advantage after Fogging a horde of tapped creatures.

-8: Fog forever and ever and ever and ever, barring Dissipate. Also: Thought Scour for the kill.

I decided to drop red entirely. I have enough of that going on in my burn version of this deck (Tibalt's Turbofog. To replace Blasphemous Act as a board wipe, I may end up including Devastation Tide. It's a panic button, to be sure, and may not always be very beneficial, but bouncing everything is better than getting killed next turn.

Anyway, I'm resetting all the old comments under this update. Thoughts and opinions about Tamiyo and everything else is definitely welcome.

UniTheDino says... #1

It's not everyday you come across a deck with 4x Rites of FlourishingMTG Card: Rites of Flourishing, so +1 for that alone! The deck looks quite fun to play!

February 19, 2012 6:30 p.m.

Strangelove says... #2

I think you could use some minor life gain so you don't die to Inferno TitanMTG Card: Inferno Titan, things that aren't combat damage, etc.

February 19, 2012 7:15 p.m.

gingerwookie says... #3

my mate made a deck pritty much the same quite a while back and with still tweaks being made the deck is'nt half bad :P

February 19, 2012 7:18 p.m.

dorminjake says... #4


For Inferno TitanMTG Card: Inferno Titans, I have some sideboard options: 2x extra Blunt the AssaultMTG Card: Blunt the Assault, 1x Elixir of ImmortalityMTG Card: Elixir of Immortality, and 3x Witchbane OrbMTG Card: Witchbane Orb. Or I can Beast WithinMTG Card: Beast Within or Tumble MagnetMTG Card: Tumble Magnet them. So I have a -little- breathing room.

But truthfully, I don't expect to win much against burn. Red Deck Wins, for example, is probably not going to be losing much to me, you know? Too fast, and too many options for getting around combat damage. Shrine of Burning RageMTG Card: Shrine of Burning Rage = ouch. Again, I have Witchbane OrbMTG Card: Witchbane Orb to try to fall back on, but there isn't a huge amount I can do.

Any suggestions for matchups aginst red? I don't have many delusions, but if there's something that will help me live a little longer against them, I'll gladly listen.

February 19, 2012 7:50 p.m.

None says... #5

Mental MisstepMTG Card: Mental Misstep can give you a little protection against mono-red. Tree of RedemptionMTG Card: Tree of Redemption can also give you some fallback space as well as a basically invincible blocker.

February 19, 2012 9:59 p.m.

dorminjake says... #6

Good idea on the Tree, I'll put a couple on the sideboard. I've also increased my main deck Blunt the AssaultMTG Card: Blunt the Assault count from 2x to 4x, so maybe that'll help a little.

Mental MisstepMTG Card: Mental Misstep is pretty narrow in its use. It protects against Goblin GrenadeMTG Card: Goblin Grenades and things, but I'm more worried about Shrine of Burning RageMTG Card: Shrine of Burning Rage. I'll keep it in mind for now.

Thanks for the suggestions!

February 19, 2012 10:11 p.m.

Nephilim says... #7

I know it's a 4 drop, but you gotta have 4 Blunt the AssaultMTG Card: Blunt the Assault, the life gain is great. A Karn LiberatedMTG Card: Karn Liberated solves alot of problems and is often time unseen coming in advance. Noxious Revival MTG Card: Noxious Revival will bring any card in your graveyard back as next card you draw, which is great. Blue Sun's ZenithMTG Card: Blue Sun's Zenith on your opponent + Sphinx + Erasure = 3x power.

February 19, 2012 10:12 p.m.

dorminjake says... #8

I -completely- forgot about Blue Sun's ZenithMTG Card: Blue Sun's Zenith! Thank you, that is perfect!

February 19, 2012 10:23 p.m.

Nephilim says... #9

I live to serve...

February 19, 2012 11:20 p.m.

wildfyre says... #10

The threat of red burn should be possible to avoid if you could lock down or disrupt their mana in some way. Since your wincon can be pulled off on a small manabase it shouldn't affect you nearly as bad. Not sure there's a good way of doing that in standard though.

You might want to consider Grafdigger's CageMTG Card: Grafdigger's Cage though, to deal with all the GravecrawlerMTG Card: Gravecrawlers, flashbacks and other grave-based decks out there.

February 20, 2012 4:06 a.m.

dorminjake says... #11

I shouldn't have to worry too much about GravecrawlerMTG Card: Gravecrawlers or anything with undying, because I plan to never interact with the opponent's creatures, ever. Ignore them until I die, that's my motto.

For graveyard hate, I'm currently running Surgical ExtractionMTG Card: Surgical Extraction because it does two different things for me: it can kill entire playsets of Mana LeakMTG Card: Mana Leak and the like, which are bad news when I'm trying to cast an absolutely crucial FogMTG Card: Fog, and it has the potential to thin the opponent's deck by a small margin, so there are fewer cards to mill.

My original list did include Grafdigger's CageMTG Card: Grafdigger's Cage, because that card IS fantastic. I may end up including it if the metagame calls for it, but right now I'm just really concerned with rooting out enemy countermagic.

February 20, 2012 9:10 a.m.

Dude, Sword of War and Peace... Perfect with all of the card draw against RDW. You gain life, they lose extra life.

Garruk Relentless/Veil Cursed could give you some extra removal and tokens for blockers to save a fog or two.

Acidic Slime is a great toolbox card and a titan killer (great to get rid of those Shrines...)

Sword of Body and Mind gives you extra mill AND wolf tokens.

Mindshrieker and/or Trepanation Blade wouldn't be a bad idea either...

Hilarious though! +1

February 21, 2012 3:51 p.m.

dorminjake says... #13

Just added: Blasphemous Act MTG Card: Blasphemous Act

Blasphemous Act MTG Card: Blasphemous Act is a fog, hahahaha.

This may only be a temporary change. At least as a sweeper it's more easily splashed than Day of JudgmentMTG Card: Day of Judgment or Black Sun's ZenithMTG Card: Black Sun's Zenith.


February 21, 2012 5:15 p.m.

Nephilim says... #14

hey, i use Gideon JuraMTG Card: Gideon Jura as a Fog so why not BlasAct?

February 21, 2012 5:26 p.m.

You lost some card draw adding Blasphemous Act

Pending your meta, keep it mainboard, but I see it as a sideboard card for mass removal of tokens and tribal decks. Definitely a GREAT card, but not something you'd use until late game.

February 21, 2012 11:10 p.m.

Strangelove says... #16

February 22, 2012 12:08 a.m.

dorminjake says... #17

My current meta is fairly aggro-intensive at the moment, so I will be keeping the Blasphemous Act MTG Card: Blasphemous Act s main deck for now. I can switch them out for game 2s against control decks and the like, of course.

Also, I prefer the Act to smaller fare like Rolling TemblorMTG Card: Rolling Temblor and WhipflareMTG Card: Whipflare, simply because it kills a much wider variety of creatures. For smaller creature hordes, I'll just keep FogMTG Card: Fogging away, but I like the option of a total board wipe if my opponent's army is starting to get out of hand and I'm running out of fog effects.

Since Rites of FlourishingMTG Card: Rites of Flourishing will be providing both myself and my opponent with lots and lots of cards, using a Blasphemous Act MTG Card: Blasphemous Act to take out a dozen or so threats at once should be fairly commonplace, generating some pretty massive card advantage.

The fact that the Act is such a big, meaty sorcery means I will be more likely to hold it back for as long as possible, which not only increases the amount of potential card advantage, but also increases the likelihood that I'll draw one of the 4 red sources in the deck. And using Snapcaster MageMTG Card: Snapcaster Mage on one in an emergency shouldn't be too difficult to pull off either.

February 22, 2012 12:58 a.m.

Excellent points.

Have you given any thought to adding the Swords?

February 22, 2012 9:11 a.m.

You need a graveyard recurring effect in case a game goes longer than you want it to, or just vs. ub drownyard decks.

Elixir of ImmortalityMTG Card: Elixir of Immortality is cheap enough that you can sandbag it or play it turn 1 vs. aggro, Archangel's LightMTG Card: Archangel's Light you'd have to splash for, and the lifegain wouldn't really be relevant vs. the matches returning your graveyard would be important in.

Praetor's CounselMTG Card: Praetor's Counsel costs roughly 1 billion, so is vulnerable to counters, but you can flash it back with snapcasters at last resort, and if you want a big-hand effect play Venser's JournalMTG Card: Venser's Journal. That card is truly frustrating for aggro.

February 22, 2012 9:43 a.m.

dorminjake says... #20

@Goldenpineapple I should totally grab a copy of Praetor's CounselMTG Card: Praetor's Counsel, that is an excellent suggestion. I'll try to update my deck list when I get my hands on one. I've got two copies of Elixir of ImmortalityMTG Card: Elixir of Immortality on the sideboard already. I figured they'd help me against both mill and a little against burn (hooray for small amounts of lifegain!).

@aeonstoremyliver The problem with swords is that I'm barely running any creatures, and don't really have any plans to ever actually use my combat step. I mean, if I'm in a situation where I can win by attacking with my Consecrated SphinxMTG Card: Consecrated Sphinx for 5 turns, I will, but it's not a mainline strategy. With only six creatures total, I'm just afraid it would mostly be a dead draw.

February 22, 2012 12:08 p.m.

dorminjake says... #21

@Goldenpineapple - Venser's JournalMTG Card: Venser's Journal is also genius. I'm going to have to procure myself some sideboard cards, haha. Thanks!

February 22, 2012 12:10 p.m.

parasitian says... #22

Whoa I love this deck so much. I playtested it against some really fast decks, like my deck:rw-tempered-steel-3 and most of the time I won, but you still managed to get 2 wins out of 6 games. Either way, I think this could be a really good deck.

February 22, 2012 2:06 p.m.

dorminjake says... #23

I feel like any aggressive strategy that includes counterspells (like Delver) or burn (like RDW) is going to pretty much destroy me, even with me siding in hate. It's just a bad matchup. Unfortunately, this comprises a lot of decks, haha. But I should have a lot of fun against pure aggro and maybe even some control decks. I mostly just want to do something weird and unexpected, regardless of win percentage.

Still, though. Might as well try to make it as competitive as possible.

February 22, 2012 2:17 p.m.

azmodai2 says... #24

Considering that many pro's are strong believers in the philosophy of fire I don't recommend lambasting red mages as unintelligent, especially if you happen to be losing to the deck.

Praetor's CounselMTG Card: Praetor's Counsel Is far too expensive to be using, especially as the decks where you would need it against are going to be beating you well before you can cast it.

For you maybe you should simply maindeck Surgical ExtractionMTG Card: Surgical Extraction as that can rip counters and key burn spells from a deck, drastically slowing your opponent.

Cut the Blunt the AssaultMTG Card: Blunt the Assault to two and perhaps even the other fog effects to three each and fill the space with Mana LeakMTG Card: Mana Leak/NegateMTG Card: Negate

February 22, 2012 2:29 p.m.

dorminjake says... #25

Oh, I wasn't lambasting red mages at ALL. I was speaking as an in-character blue-green mage! I'm speaking purely from a flavor perspective, where an actual in-game blue mage would probably talk about an actual in-game red mage in that way, due to the opposing intelligence vs. emotion philosophies of the two colors.

I mention it because it's a strength of red decks. They don't have to do all their damage from combat, and no matter what ridiculous tomfoolery some random blue mage is trying to do to lock down the board, the red mage can just shake his or her head and FireballMTG Card: Fireball them to death.

I thought I was pretty clear, almost obnoxiously so, that this deck isn't meant to win any sort of "professional" competition. It's an FNM troll deck! For fun! I have no delusions about winning!

As far as Praetor's CounselMTG Card: Praetor's Counsel is concerned, it would only be a late game card, it would only be a one-of, it would only be sided in against opposing mill (which means pretty much never), and it would to be easy to cast considering all the copies of Rites of FlourishingMTG Card: Rites of Flourishing that would be floating around. But think about how fun it would be, holding 30 cards!

I'll do what you suggested re: countermagic when sideboarding, but I probably won't main deck my NegateMTG Card: Negates. It would too often be a dead draw when I'd rather have a fog or a finisher.

February 22, 2012 2:47 p.m.

dorminjake says... #26

@azmodai2 Clarified my position on red mages above, in the description.

Also: white mages smell funny. Clearly I am the most serious person.

Also also: I actually really agree with you regarding Surgical ExtractionMTG Card: Surgical Extraction. I'm going to think on it, and will try to fit it into the main deck later tonight. Thanks for the suggestion!

February 22, 2012 3:04 p.m.

i love you. this deck is tits.

February 22, 2012 3:43 p.m.

dorminjake says... #28

@theurbanraptor I love this comment. This comment, it is tits.

February 22, 2012 4:29 p.m.

_Grintex says... #29

I love all of the combos in this deck, was going to do something similar but with damage, using Underworld DreamsMTG Card: Underworld Dreams and Psychosis CrawlerMTG Card: Psychosis Crawler. I'd think about some Horizon SpellbombMTG Card: Horizon Spellbombs even though you don't need too much mana, you'll still get to draw a card.

February 22, 2012 4:46 p.m.

what about Thought ScourMTG Card: Thought Scour instead of PonderMTG Card: Ponder it also will let you mill.

February 22, 2012 4:52 p.m.

dorminjake says... #31

I initially had Thought ScourMTG Card: Thought Scour, but the mill is pretty small and I'd personally rather dig three cards deep to find whatever crucial card I need. Once the enchantment combo is set up, milling is not a problem. But you definitely want to get those pieces out, as well as having fogs when you need them.

I think it's mostly personal preference between it and PonderMTG Card: Ponder, to be honest.

February 22, 2012 5 p.m.

godly111 says... #32

[Grafdigger's Cage] is a must sideboard card, unless your metagame doesnt run any solar flare decks or pod decks. It also shuts down undying.

February 22, 2012 5:49 p.m.

dorminjake says... #33

@godly111 the only card in my deck that cares about undying is Blasphemous Act MTG Card: Blasphemous Act , and even then it isn't that big of a deal. Otherwise I just FogMTG Card: Fog everything. I'm using Surgical ExtractionMTG Card: Surgical Extraction as my graveyard hate instead, as it can delete entire playsets of cards that might give me trouble, thinning the opponents' deck in the process.

Grafdigger's CageMTG Card: Grafdigger's Cage is amazing, for sure, but I feel the Extractions are more suited to what this deck is trying to accomplish.

February 22, 2012 5:56 p.m.

godly111 says... #34

True, but run it against my The Other Pod deck and you will see how important it is to shut down a persons graveyard or library. Control what they draw or dont draw and you can minimize their removal of your enchantments. A person runs a similar deck in my area, and I have decked them.

February 22, 2012 6:40 p.m.

True dat about Graffdiggers Cage...

Have you thought about splashing white just for Stonehorn Dignitary? Just a thought. Plus, the added white could give you access to Oblivion Ring and other control options.

February 22, 2012 7:07 p.m.

generalmoepie says... #36

ever thought of a win condition? Labratory Maniac would seal the deal for ur defensive mill and draw deck.

February 22, 2012 7:16 p.m.

dorminjake says... #37

@generalmoepie My win condition is I mill my opponent to death. I'm not crazy about the idea of self-mill.

February 22, 2012 7:49 p.m.

kingboo3000 says... #38

I think you need 3x Jace. He's amazing for this deck. With Jace's ErasureMTG Card: Jace's Erasure, you'll mill your opponent 3 a turn. Not bad at all. Not only that, but he's basically your only win-con. Sure, you MIGHT be able to mill your opponent with your various other means, but I think he's pretty much a win against any combat heavy deck.

February 22, 2012 9:55 p.m.

mafteechr says... #39

If you want to up your chances against red, consider going bant so you have access to Timely ReinforcementsMTG Card: Timely Reinforcements. White also gives you Day of JudgmentMTG Card: Day of Judgment, Gideon JuraMTG Card: Gideon Jura, and Midnight HauntingMTG Card: Midnight Haunting/Lingering SoulsMTG Card: Lingering Souls.

February 22, 2012 10:56 p.m.

compgurusteve says... #40

Why not ancient grudge for the shrines until you can get witch bane orb up? +1ed this

February 23, 2012 12:38 a.m.

OmegaSerris says... #41

No love for Jace's ArchivistMTG Card: Jace's Archivist? I think he could speed up the mill by at least a few turns with all of the card draw you are sporting. He is especially potent with Jace's ErasureMTG Card: Jace's Erasure and he can turn any bounce effect in to solid removal (since they are discarding their hand). The only down side is that hand you get in return can be unpredictable.

February 23, 2012 2:50 a.m.

MarkBGH says... #42

I know the idea is to be relatively creature-less but Undead AlchemistMTG Card: Undead Alchemist does exactly what your deck wants to do. Even if you don't attack with it, it turns your mill spells into token generators, creating creatures to block or continue to mill your opponent.

February 23, 2012 11 a.m.

kingboo3000 says... #43

If you like undead alchemist, check out this hilariously awesome zombie mill deck!

FullMiller Alchemist - DKA Updated!

February 23, 2012 noon

dorminjake says... #44

Lots of suggestions in the past 19 hours. I'd like to respond to each, but I don't -yet- have the cards/experience to answer each as fully as I'd like. The current posted deck list above is constructed only of cards I now have access to. The cards in the maybeboard and each of your above suggestions are things I would like to test/purchase first, but don't have the time or resources to do so before tomorrow night's FNM.

After tomorrow, when I get to see what this deck actually does in real, paper life, I'll know what its weaknesses are and we can maybe work together to cover up the vulnerable points. I could also try to get my hands on some of these other cards.

Jace's ArchivistMTG Card: Jace's Archivist, in particular, is a creature I'd love to run through the paces, but was shy to include him without seeing how the rest of the deck worked together first.

I will definitely be making a tournament report tomorrow, along with any news on whether or not I'm banned from the store for turbofogging everyone to annoyance. I anticipate the latter for sure, ha.

February 23, 2012 3:40 p.m.

Phalynxx says... #45

would be a good fit since you run Blunt the AssaultMTG Card: Blunt the Assault. It might actually turn into a late-game win condition.

February 24, 2012 4:59 a.m.

Messor says... #46

Seems fun!If it were me, I'd probably run some spot removal like IncinerateMTG Card: Incinerate (maybe even Silent DepartureMTG Card: Silent Departure or Vapor SnagMTG Card: Vapor Snag), but I can see the argument against that. It's honestly a little cool that your using mill as a win-con as opposed to using it to just fill your 'yard, most decks have been using that stuff to fuel their flashback spells instead of killing opponents since Innistrad hit.

February 24, 2012 5:11 a.m.

cbtan78 says... #47

I was looking at your solution to burn and I tot if you had splash white. U can cast archangel light to gain ridiculous amount of life and shuffle your graveyard too.

February 24, 2012 10:41 p.m.

OrgasmAndTea says... #48

This is quite similar to my Christmas Spirit deck I've been playing for a while, except I run Psychosis CrawlerMTG Card: Psychosis Crawler and Laboratory ManiacMTG Card: Laboratory Maniac as win cons. I can vouch for Laboratory ManiacMTG Card: Laboratory Maniac, as the insane amount of cards you can draw with a simple Consecrated SphinxMTG Card: Consecrated Sphinx and Rites of FlourishingMTG Card: Rites of Flourishing combo can often mill yourself.

I've had some experience with some of the cards previously mentioned, and find that Praetor's CounselMTG Card: Praetor's Counsel is just excellent, for the demoralising effect if nothing else. Many a time I've sat laughing as I FogMTG Card: Fog my opponents turn after turn, until eventually their cries of 'Surely you've run out of fogs by now!' are met with 'Now I'm going to reclaim all of my fogs!' trolollololollolol

Also, Venser's JournalMTG Card: Venser's Journal is great if you can survive long enough to get it out, and Autumn's VeilMTG Card: Autumn's Veil is truly excellent against control decks, but like you I really struggle against RDW and have found no way around this for now other than to pray for Witchbane OrbMTG Card: Witchbane Orb. I've also tried Wall of TanglecordMTG Card: Wall of Tanglecord and FlashfreezeMTG Card: Flashfreeze, with limited success.

February 25, 2012 noon

Detroit says... #49

Very fun deck to play, most of the opponents just concede or ragequit due to the frustrating experience they get facing this.What u think about Marrow ShardsMTG Card: Marrow Shards ? It could save some fogs in certain matchups and is free!

+8000 if i could

February 25, 2012 1:23 p.m.

kaleto says... #50

maybe u can add MulchMTG Card: Mulch for the land advantage with rites.

February 25, 2012 2:10 p.m.

I reccomend you fit another jace in here somehow. Jace himself is the master of milling. it can also be incredibly fruitful to save one of your fogs as your opponents swing all out at jace and you let them, only to play another jace the next turn and procede to keep milling 10 at a time for free.

February 25, 2012 9:46 p.m.

dorminjake says... #52

@kingboo3000, Phalynxx, ComptinaDaemonium

I'm going to take your advice and add that third Jace, Memory AdeptMTG Card: Jace, Memory Adept. Verily, he is good.

I am also mainboarding 2x Surgical ExtractionMTG Card: Surgical Extraction, upping my PonderMTG Card: Ponder count to 3x, and splitting my 4x Rootbound CragMTG Card: Rootbound Crag into 2x crags and 2x Sulfur FallsMTG Card: Sulfur Falls.

After playing last night, I realize I need as much Ponder as I can get for the filtered draws, and the Surgical Extractions are invaluable when your opponent has just one real answer against you (to be milled and then exiled away).

To make room for these things, I've eliminated the combo-tastic Jace's ErasureMTG Card: Jace's Erasure, because while it is very, very nice when I have all my combo pieces out, that is a situation that doesn't always happen, and in those situations, it's kind of a dead draw.

I may change my mind though. Thoughts? Is Jace's ErasureMTG Card: Jace's Erasure worth it?

February 25, 2012 10:20 p.m.

Batcanada says... #53

Why don't you just plain old NaturalizeMTG Card: Naturalize the Shrine of Burning RageMTG Card: Shrine of Burning Rage, or even better, Nature's ClaimMTG Card: Nature's Claim it away since you are going for mill. Other than the orb, I see no other way to deal with RDW, sadly. You should have 4x of them, since it a must against RDW (otherwise, you lose) and since RDW can destroy it easily.Just my 5 cents =)

February 25, 2012 10:34 p.m.

dorminjake says... #54

Agreed on +1 Witchbane OrbMTG Card: Witchbane Orb. Done and done.

I'm running Beast WithinMTG Card: Beast Within rather than NaturalizeMTG Card: Naturalize, because there's a chance the problem permanent I so desperately need to destroy might be a creature with nasty abilities or a planeswalker, and that's the kind of versatility for which I'm okay paying 1 extra mana and a 3/3 beast token.

February 25, 2012 11:25 p.m.

OrgasmAndTea says... #55

Hey buddy, I had another idea vs RDW. It's a bit pants, but just thought I'd throw it out there. Try not to laugh... Brindle BoarMTG Card: Brindle Boar. No, I said don't laugh! Think about it... at worst it's 3 mana for 4 life. At best it's a chump blocker on top of that. Another thought was Bountiful HarvestMTG Card: Bountiful Harvest, since you'll likely be rolling in lands thanks to rites. Well, both ideas suck really, but at least I'm trying!

February 26, 2012 11:01 a.m.

When I tried turbofog instead of milling them I tried to life gain into Chalice of DeathMTG Card: Chalice of Death and then almost immediatly kill them

February 26, 2012 1:14 p.m.

EnjoySaeli says... #57

I do not see how Turbo Fog is playable, to be honest. A guy in my meta plays it, and I don't see how it wins. Jace Memory adept isn't a reliable win condition. So... Yeah, I don't know. I'd rather just play, y'know, an actual control deck. Not... FOGFOGFOGFOGFOGFOGFOGFOGFOGFOGFOGFOGMILL

February 26, 2012 1:20 p.m.

dorminjake says... #58

@the_spanish_inquisiton That is an interesting idea. How well does it work for you?

As much artifact hate as I'm seeing in people's sideboards, I'd feel a bit nervous using it as a win condition. Have you got alternate methods of winning?

February 26, 2012 1:23 p.m.

Turbo fog wins by milling with jace's erasures and preventing all damage with FogMTG Card: Fogand the likes

February 26, 2012 1:26 p.m.

EnjoySaeli says... #60

But I don't think it's a RELIABLE win condition, reliability is my arguing factor. :/

February 26, 2012 1:28 p.m.

dorminjake says... #61

@EnjoySaeli I went 3-2 at FNM a couple of nights ago. Not a great record, obviously, but I just want to show you that it can, in fact win. Milling 10 cards a turn when you've got a full hand of FogMTG Card: Fogs really does add up.

If you think of their library as their life total (less than 60, after drawing opening hands), then Jace's +0 ability effectively does just under 4 (1/6th of life total) unblockable damage each turn. And if they're drawing 2 or 3 cards a turn, you're Surgical ExtractionMTG Card: Surgical Extraction-ing entire playsets from their library, and fogging any attack they make, it really won't take that long to mill them out.

February 26, 2012 1:34 p.m.

dorminjake says... #62

@EnjoySaeli I don't disagree about the reliability of it. It really isn't all that reliable. Is it fun though? Shyeah. And when it works, it works so well and so hilariously that the losses are worth it.

All depends on how you want to play the game.

February 26, 2012 1:35 p.m.

Nephilim says... #63

I went 4-0-1 first time I ran my turbo fog. went 3-1-1 this week with it. it's not that hard if you play smart. now granted, i also use Karn LiberatedMTG Card: Karn Liberated to restart with my opponent's stuff (or one of my Jace, Memory AdeptMTG Card: Jace, Memory Adept) including one time restarting with my opponent's Gideon JuraMTG Card: Gideon Jura and Geist-Honored MonkMTG Card: Geist-Honored Monk

February 26, 2012 2:01 p.m.

dorminjake says... #64

@Nephilim you are a cruel, cruel person, and I respect the hell out of you. /salute to Karn LiberatedMTG Card: Karn Liberated.

February 26, 2012 2:51 p.m.

Nephilim says... #65

@dorminjake ROTFL and thanks

February 26, 2012 3:05 p.m.

Nephilim says... #66

Let me know what you think of mine deck:turbo-fog-49

February 26, 2012 3:07 p.m.

Everyone hates people who play turbo fog though

February 26, 2012 9:25 p.m.

scholar says... #68

@the_spanish_inquisiton, yeah good point. Next time I make a deck, I'm going to keep my competition's feelings in mind! :P

February 26, 2012 9:34 p.m.

Nephilim says... #69

People around my area both love and hate playing against me when I play it. Hell it's the first question that they ask when they see me at FNM. Knowing they have the time to set up whatever the hell their deck is designed to do vs the knowledge that I've got 16 Fog effects, plus all sorts of other fun things... it's actually very exciting despite the bad weather.

February 26, 2012 10:02 p.m.

dorminjake says... #70

What Nephilim said has been my experience, having played this deck all of once. Now if I keep bringing it, 10 weeks in a row, I could see people getting annoyed. But I'll probably use it a bit randomly, just to keep people guessing.

I've still got a perfectly viable elf deck that is nowhere close to boring me, so it's good to have options.

February 26, 2012 11:02 p.m.

No more sphinx?????

February 26, 2012 11:45 p.m.

mmazach says... #72

idk if this was already said. but i would take out red for white and run Day of JudgmentMTG Card: Day of Judgment and Stonehorn DignitaryMTG Card: Stonehorn Dignitary

February 26, 2012 11:47 p.m.

dorminjake says... #73

Sphinxes reinstated for good behavior.

@mmazach I chose red over white simply because Blasphemous Act MTG Card: Blasphemous Act is easier to cast then the double-white Day of JudgmentMTG Card: Day of Judgment, though to be honest I think DoJ is just dandy in this deck. Stonehorn DignitaryMTG Card: Stonehorn Dignitary is also a good option. I mostly just went red out of preference. I think either splash color is fine here.

Along those same lines, black might even be a decent option for milling purposes. Black Sun's ZenithMTG Card: Black Sun's Zenith would be your board wipe, and you could use things like MemoricideMTG Card: Memoricide and Surgical ExtractionMTG Card: Surgical Extraction (which I have) to delete things from your opponent's library. The colors in this deck are really pretty negotiable, after blue and green.

February 27, 2012 12:16 a.m.

parasitian says... #74

Its funny I saw some person running a very similar deck, he used white instead of red for day of judgement and Phyrexian UnlifeMTG Card: Phyrexian Unlife, he also had some life-gaining effects, like Elixir of ImmortalityMTG Card: Elixir of Immortality and Pristine TalismanMTG Card: Pristine Talisman but they didn't use MoonmistMTG Card: Moonmist, Blunt the AssaultMTG Card: Blunt the Assault, and Rites of FlourishingMTG Card: Rites of Flourishing. I witnessed him winning an opponent's spirit deck. I asked him if he got the idea from a website, but he said he thought of it himself.

February 27, 2012 12:25 a.m.

dorminjake says... #75

Turbofog is an archetype that's been around for a while (example: http://www.wizards.com/magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/deck/191), so it isn't really all that original. But now that there's a fourth green fog in standard (thanks, Clinging MistsMTG Card: Clinging Mists), it's no surprise that it's popping up here and there among more experimental types.

February 27, 2012 12:30 a.m.

parasitian says... #76

I didn't know TurboFog was an archetype, LOL

February 27, 2012 12:31 a.m.

dorminjake says... #77

It's one of the crazier older ones, but yeah.

February 27, 2012 12:33 a.m.

Nephilim says... #78

I'm an old player, so I remember the old archetypes :D and while yes Venser + Stonehorn is virtually similar and has been run a bit lately (at least in my meda in UW Control decks), the joy of 16 fogs (18 in mine if you count Gideon), 4 noxious revivals, and in my case two doj... gets silly fast :) Hell, I've even thought of adding Charmbreaker DevilsMTG Card: Charmbreaker Devils to keep getting the fogs back. Oh and Blightsteel ColossusMTG Card: Blightsteel Colossus as an alternate win con that NO ONE sees coming in a turbo fog deck is priceless (which is why I also run Karn LiberatedMTG Card: Karn Liberated)

February 27, 2012 12:58 a.m.

dorminjake says... #79

Oh my gods, Charmbreaker DevilsMTG Card: Charmbreaker Devils! I...I want to run these. I--. Yes indeed.

Dies horrifically to removal, but so does Consecrated SphinxMTG Card: Consecrated Sphinx. The Sphinx's enemy draw step ability triggers sooner than the Devils' your next upkeep ability though, so sorcery-speed removal would kill the devils without you ever getting to net any card advantage.

And both are 6-drops. I'm going to have to think about this for--

Nvm, I'm including Charmbreaker DevilsMTG Card: Charmbreaker Devils, because Charmbreaker DevilsMTG Card: Charmbreaker Devils.

Thanks Nephilim!

February 27, 2012 1:19 a.m.

Nephilim says... #80

No problem dorminjake. though i'd love some credit in the description lol :p

February 27, 2012 1:31 a.m.

dorminjake says... #81

Done and done.

February 27, 2012 1:42 a.m.

Nephilim says... #82

wow awesome thanks a ton dude lol :)

February 27, 2012 1:44 a.m.

Terramune says... #83

I applaud you good sir. I would probably also Update the chat to somewhat clear up this 80+ posts so its easier read so long as there arent still applicable suggestions.

But, even if there is only 2 or 3, I would definately add back in Jace's ErasureMTG Card: Jace's Erasure. Its such a hard to deal with card pre-side board and even if you only get 1 out, its still that extra mill a turn. It would just make things faster.

February 27, 2012 2:21 a.m.

OrgasmAndTea says... #84

Charmbreaker DevilsMTG Card: Charmbreaker Devils is a truly fantastic suggestion. Cudoes Nephilim =)

February 27, 2012 6:01 a.m.

Nephilim says... #85

w00t go me lol :D

February 27, 2012 11:20 a.m.

wizard924 says... #86

I, personally, see a lot of werewolves with Kessig, so I'm wondering what this deck would do against them? Moonmist is crap against them and they can be awfully agro. Anything on that? Oh, and +1 because I love Turbo-Fog builds

February 28, 2012 1:26 a.m.

CrushU says... #87

Charmbreaker DevilsMTG Card: Charmbreaker Devils is so nuts.

Most fun thing in the world is to have only DissipateMTG Card: Dissipates in your yard and Devils on the board. Guess what's going to be played whenever your opponent plays a spell? :D It's even worth using a Nihil SpellbombMTG Card: Nihil Spellbomb on yourself for.

February 28, 2012 3:33 a.m.

wingshad0w says... #88

In my opinion Jace's Erasure is worth it. Even as a 2-3 of. A turn 2 erasure, turn 3 rite, (turn 4 looking pretty) turn 5 jace is the stupidest play you can do. And by stupid I mean the best. I use it in my (somewhat less than stellar) deck:blue-green-standard-mill-fog. Regardless I still think this deck is awesome and taking it to an FNM gets credit from me.

February 28, 2012 2:11 p.m.

Nephilim says... #89

@wizard924- I've beaten Kessig on a consistent basis. Hell, this FNM I was at 1 life and 9 infect but he couldn't get the job done before I milled him out. In decks like this, think of life (and poison) as just another resource to stall with. It kills me to watch people Fog against four or even six points of damage.

February 28, 2012 2:51 p.m.

dorminjake says... #90

@wizard924 The only card werewolves really ruin is MoonmistMTG Card: Moonmist, which is more annoying than game breaking for game 1. After game 1, you just sideboard in something to replace the Moonmists, perhaps Witchbane OrbMTG Card: Witchbane Orbs to prevent the damage caused by Ravager of the FellsMTG Card: Ravager of the Fells flipping or something unexpected like a Tovolar's MagehunterMTG Card: Tovolar's Magehunter.

February 28, 2012 2:56 p.m.

i wonder if is playable in a turbo fog, gain some life while negating combat, then if you can't mill them, you can deplete their life with the flip, Chalice of DeathMTG Card: Chalice of Death

February 28, 2012 2:57 p.m.

oh also, check out my current FNM baby, Son of a Lich! [U/B Control]

February 28, 2012 2:58 p.m.

dorminjake says... #93

I don't see working well. My usual strategy is to tank the first few hits from creatures before I start fogging, which usually takes me down pretty low. Since the chalice only restores 1 life per activation, it's going to take a really long time to get to 30, even with Blunt the AssaultMTG Card: Blunt the Assault helping on occasion.

Anyway, if I had room for the chalice, I'd probably put Jace's ErasureMTG Card: Jace's Erasure back in instead. As it stands, the Erasures really just make my opponent angry more than it actually wins games, but at least it synergizes well with everything else in the deck.

February 28, 2012 3:02 p.m.

geomonty says... #94

If only Howling MineMTG Card: Howling Mine/ Jace BelerenMTG Card: Jace Beleren was in standard...

February 29, 2012 8:13 a.m.

Minousmancer says... #95

Maybe Turn the TideMTG Card: Turn the Tide over MoonmistMTG Card: Moonmist?

February 29, 2012 9:35 a.m.

Nephilim says... #96

Hysterical BlindnessMTG Card: Hysterical Blindness works good too

February 29, 2012 10:31 a.m.

Minousmancer says... #97

Nephilim agreed!

February 29, 2012 10:51 a.m.

hmmmm....im seriously considering adapting Decimator WebMTG Card: Decimator Web you dont even have to mill, just fog for 10 turns and you win.

February 29, 2012 12:03 p.m.

Valentine35 says... #99

i was thinking just to be more annoying you could add Phantasmal ImageMTG Card: Phantasmal Image to copy your Snapcaster MageMTG Card: Snapcaster Mages and bring back more fogs lol.

February 29, 2012 2:06 p.m.

dorminjake says... #100

@theurbanraptor I know what you mean! I built a shell of a Decimator WebMTG Card: Decimator Web fog deck a couple of days ago, and was all excited until I realized the web's ability cost so much. I was reeeally hoping it was automatic every upkeep. I'm sure there's still a deck to be built, but for now I'll leave it in other, more capable hands.

@everyone I think there's a place for some Hysterical BlindnessMTG Card: Hysterical Blindness effects in the sideboard. I will look at this for a bit.

February 29, 2012 2:18 p.m.

its like im stalking you, so many posts...

I was also thinking, if it was possible to splash white, you could use venser / stonehorn, or venser / geralfs mind crusher, since he mills 5 cards when he comes into play.

February 29, 2012 6:46 p.m.

Runechanter's Pike might be a funny late game twist. xD

February 29, 2012 10:09 p.m.

Nephilim says... #103

lol i love how your fog has 48 votes, i have 3 (including one from me) :p

March 1, 2012 12:12 a.m.

dorminjake says... #104

For fog decks, it's all about visibility. rimshot

March 1, 2012 12:27 a.m.

Nephilim says... #105

then i guess i win, cause like John Cena they can't see me. groan

March 1, 2012 12:30 a.m.

You inspired me to build my own turbo fog deck, and i wanted to run 3x Memory adepts in mine, however, i only own 3 which is fine. however, for the sheer absolute fun of it, i put in one karn liberated in my deck. It works ridiculously well i must say. you can either control the board with karns minus ability or use his plus ability on yourself to exile rites of Flourishing(assuming restarting the game is your goal) and jaces erasure. with all of your fog cards it really isn't hard to restart the game at all in 3 turns. Also, it may very well just make your opponent concede lol.

Also, a problem i'm thinking the deck may have but i am trying to address, is Grand Abolisher. what do you do if your opponent gets him out? Maybe you already discussed this, but i missed it.

March 1, 2012 1:33 p.m.

Nephilim says... #107

In my deck I use Oblivion RingMTG Card: Oblivion Ring or Karn LiberatedMTG Card: Karn Liberated against GA.

March 1, 2012 2:06 p.m.

dorminjake says... #108

This deck does not like Grand AbolisherMTG Card: Grand Abolisher, it's true. Main deck, the only real thing you can do about it is to hope for Blasphemous Act MTG Card: Blasphemous Act anytime he hits the field. Snapcaster MageMTG Card: Snapcaster Mage and Charmbreaker DevilsMTG Card: Charmbreaker Devils can let you reuse it if need be, but to be honest that card really messes with this deck. Imagine the Abolisher equipped with Sword of War and PeaceMTG Card: Sword of War and Peace. shudder

The sideboard nets you a couple of options, however. Chief of those is Beast WithinMTG Card: Beast Within. The only other real option is to try to Surgical ExtractionMTG Card: Surgical Extraction a destroyed or milled Abolisher in order to be rid of them entirely.

Either way, the Grand AbolisherMTG Card: Grand Abolisher doesn't TOTALLY shut you down, but it does make winning almost purely based on the luck of the draw.

March 1, 2012 2:07 p.m.

quargur says... #109

-2 Blunt the AssaultMTG Card: Blunt the Assault -1 Charmbreaker DevilsMTG Card: Charmbreaker Devils and +3 Wall of TanglecordMTG Card: Wall of Tanglecord so you can hold the early aggro without spend so many FogMTG Card: Fogs.

+1 to Dementation fog.

plz comment and rate my deck deck:ub-mill-112

March 1, 2012 2:17 p.m.

Nephilim says... #110

@quargur- smart players take the early damage. I've said before, and will say again, life and infect counters need to be thought of as more form of stalls. The first 19 life don't matter, just that last 1. If you think like that, Blunt works double duty.

March 1, 2012 2:27 p.m.

DarianDDS says... #111

after reading the comments on your version, take a look at my turbofog and tell me what you think of it. deck:g-turbofog-standard thanks for the help on mine too Nephilim seems like you just love turbofogs XD and its true, this deck gets annoying super fast. maybe Lost in the WoodsMTG Card: Lost in the Woods? it kinda rotates your deck for you if PonderMTG Card: Ponders just not working for you.

March 2, 2012 2:28 a.m.

Draygo says... #112

I see there's no swamps but I'm still surprised there's no Nephalia Drownyard in this one.

March 2, 2012 8:40 a.m.

Minousmancer says... #113

Draygo why, Nephalia DrownyardMTG Card: Nephalia Drownyard is the slowest most worthless ability land I've seen in a long time?

March 2, 2012 8:50 a.m.

Draygo says... #114

@Minousmancer Well considering people were playing the fool out of it at the Grand Prix and this is a mill deck, it seems to fit pretty well. If Jace, Memory AdeptMTG Card: Jace, Memory Adept, Jace's ErasureMTG Card: Jace's Erasure (if he puts it back in), Rites of FlourishingMTG Card: Rites of Flourishing and enough land with Nephalia DrownyardMTG Card: Nephalia Drownyard is out, You can Mill them for 17 cards a turn.

March 2, 2012 9:43 a.m.

dorminjake says... #115

Splashing black for the drownyards just doesn't seem necessary. It has its place in U/B control, but the mill of this deck is more incidental. Jace and Increasing ConfusionMTG Card: Increasing Confusion are just convenient win conditions that work while completely disregarding combat.

A BUG version of this deck could be made, with Black Sun's ZenithMTG Card: Black Sun's Zenith instead of Blasphemous Act MTG Card: Blasphemous Act . I'd use the drownyards then. But as long as I'm using red instead, I'm going to hold off.

March 2, 2012 10:48 a.m.

Phalynxx says... #116

I ran this deck at FNM tonight because I had the cards for it. I went 4-1 and took 4th, so props to you! My biggest problem was a R/G HellriderMTG Card: Hellrider deck. I hadn't realized that Hellrider doesn't target a player, so Witchbane OrbMTG Card: Witchbane Orb can't do anything against it. I think instead of witchbanes I am going to run a playset of SpellskiteMTG Card: Spellskites if I play this deck next week. The highlight of the tournament for me was Blasphemous Act MTG Card: Blasphemous Act ing a guy who had 11 forests out, 2 Wurmcoil EngineMTG Card: Wurmcoil Engines and 4 Dungrove ElderMTG Card: Dungrove Elders each equipped with a Sword of Feast and FamineMTG Card: Sword of Feast and Famine. Oh man it was fun :)

March 3, 2012 5:18 a.m.

kingboo3000 says... #117

By the way Phalynxx, SpellskiteMTG Card: Spellskites require a target to redirect, so if you're trying to beat HellriderMTG Card: Hellrider, you'll have to look elsewhere. It has the same problem as Witchbane OrbMTG Card: Witchbane Orb.

By the way, I'm making a deck that functions like a hyper-fog deck but with a lifegain premise. I could use some help narrowing down the cards: Fog of Life

March 3, 2012 10:36 a.m.

I ran this last night, got second place.

I played with 2 jace's 2 sphinx and two charmbreakers.

I think im going to try and play 1 sphinx, and 3 undead alchemist. Ill post the build in a bit.

March 3, 2012 5:57 p.m.

dorminjake says... #119

@Phalynxx, theurbanraptor I am so glad this deck is actually working well for you! I missed out on FNM this weekend on account of tornadoes, etc., so it's good to see the deck's getting played in the meantime. Thanks!

March 4, 2012 1:11 a.m.

Phalynxx says... #120

I know HellriderMTG Card: Hellrider is still a huge issue, I side-boarded Beast WithinMTG Card: Beast Within against, but never drew it. The reason I would use SpellskiteMTG Card: Spellskite is simply because of the presence of other burn spells usually in those with hellrider.

March 4, 2012 5:43 p.m.

Minousmancer says... #121

March 4, 2012 6:09 p.m.
March 4, 2012 7:06 p.m.

parasitian says... #123

he uses it to cast Sorin's VengeanceMTG Card: Sorin's Vengeance, but honestly I think he shood take out CounterlashMTG Card: Counterlash and Sorin's VengeanceMTG Card: Sorin's Vengeance

March 4, 2012 7:32 p.m.

here you go! deck:weather-report-foggy-with-a-chance-of-zombies

March 5, 2012 12:04 p.m.

Minousmancer says... #125

parasitian is correct, the right conditions are met I could possible cast it turn 4 if the right conditions are met, the fact that I could cast such a powerful black spell with a U/G deck with no black Mana is awesome.

March 5, 2012 12:58 p.m.

kingboo3000 says... #126

Well, I love Sorin's VengeanceMTG Card: Sorin's Vengeance, it kicks huge ***, so even though it's "bad", I would run it in any deck that it fits into.

P.S. Please translate all strings of "" as "monkey to the face". Decipher that, eh?

March 5, 2012 1:10 p.m.

what do you think about using a few Inkmoth NexusMTG Card: Inkmoth Nexus as an alternate wincon?

March 6, 2012 1:47 p.m.

dorminjake says... #128

I don't own any myself, and I'm not really crazy about buying/trading for any (personal preference here. I recognize it's a really great card, I'm just sort of indifferent), so I'll hold off on adding them to the above decklist.

Still, alternate win-cons are a good thing to have handy, so long as they don't interfere with your primary strategy. So yeah, whatever works! Go for it, I say.

March 6, 2012 4:21 p.m.

hey dude, so i was really thinking hard because white humans is the real issue for this deck at my fmn. Grand AbolisherMTG Card: Grand Abolisher and Thalia, Guardian of ThrabenMTG Card: Thalia, Guardian of Thraben really fuck shit up. by the time you have 4 mana to play Beast WithinMTG Card: Beast Within its usually too late.

So i think i came up with a solution in my deck deck:weather-report-foggy-with-a-chance-of-zombies

took out 1x forest and 1x island and put 2x Sulfur FallsMTG Card: Sulfur Falls for more red. Then sideboard in 3x WhipflareMTG Card: Whipflare along with the 2 blasphemous acts.

Watcha think?

March 7, 2012 4:10 p.m.

dorminjake says... #130

Seems good to me!

March 7, 2012 4:47 p.m.

CrushU says... #131

Devilish Fog

Prototype of mine, mostly copied from this deck. :) Adjusted mainly for cards I don't and do have, with a backup plan of FireballMTG Card: Fireball-you-for-20.

March 10, 2012 11:10 a.m.

what about Mind UnboundMTG Card: Mind Unbound for the extra draw? side board out sphinx because they may sideboard in kill spells for it, then boom same cost, just slower draw.

also, i put Praetor's CounselMTG Card: Praetor's Counsel in my deck last week, i got 4th, losing only to a pod deck, but it was HILARIOUS. i got alllll my spells back. LOVED IT.

March 14, 2012 11:45 a.m.

Valentine35 says... #133

im sure this has been said before but i didnt read every comment, but i would sideboard Grafdigger's CageMTG Card: Grafdigger's Cage. I have a deck very similar to this one, and its great because players get all their cards out and are like "yes my awesome combo i s gonna come off." then you just fog it. But when their awesome combo involves Flayer of the HateboundMTG Card: Flayer of the Hatebound and GravecrawlerMTG Card: Gravecrawlers, your kinda screwed lol.

April 27, 2012 3:48 a.m.

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