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The burn version of this deck can be found here: Tibalt's Turbofog.
So yeah, this is a stab at a Turbofog deck for the current standard environment. Mill them to death while rendering every combat step utterly pointless! Fun and shenanigans!
The idea, like with most turbofog variants, is to use Rites of Flourishing and other draw engines to keep your hand full of Fog effects. As long as you have a fog, you can stall your opponent's creature attacks turn after turn, allowing you to put more and more lands on the field, until you can mill your opponent out with either Jace, Memory Adept , Increasing Confusion , or a Tamiyo-emblem'd Thought Scour .
This deck is purely for fun, because I couldn't let the opportunity to play my new copies of Tamiyo pass me by, but I'm happy to get serious advice on how to improve it.
Comments, suggestions, and +1s are all appreciated!
Deck inspired by Nephilim's version (seen here: turbo-fog-49), which predates mine.
Thank you to every one of you that has expressed interest in this deck and supported the noble cause of being as frustrating to play against as possible!
So now that Tamiyo, the Moon Sage is an actual card, let's invite her over for some Magic: The Gathering!
Tamiyo's abilities seem perfectly suited to this deck. She can:
+1: stall out a player relying on one imposing creature at a time.
-2: profit tremendously in card advantage after Fog ging a horde of tapped creatures.
I decided to drop red entirely. I have enough of that going on in my burn version of this deck (Tibalt's Turbofog. To replace Blasphemous Act as a board wipe, I may end up including Devastation Tide . It's a panic button, to be sure, and may not always be very beneficial, but bouncing everything is better than getting killed next turn.
Anyway, I'm resetting all the old comments under this update. Thoughts and opinions about Tamiyo and everything else is definitely welcome.
We had 43 players at FNM two nights ago, and I made half a dozen people laugh out loud. Two of them laughed in painful spasms, and alternated telling me they thought I was awesome and they hated me so much. My round 4 and 5 opponents both knew what I was playing by the time I got to them, and were partly excited, partly dreading the matchup. The guy who runs the FNM asked to see my deck and shook his head the entire time, especially at the Blasphemous Act s.
Even though I only went 3-2, I'd say the night was a success, haha.
I've recently created a burn version of this deck, named Tibalt's Turbofog to mirror this one. The two decks are now an adorable pair of blue milling and red burning, using BOTH Avacyn Restored planeswalkers.
Suddenly I want to play two-headed giant with them both.
I played the version before this and wanted to give you +1 for so many nights of trolololing. The only way I can see about improving this would be putting a one of Thrun, the Last Troll . Then before a match begins take him out and set him aside and tell them this is your commander. ;) Happy trolling!!
first off, Moonmist. You can side it out if your opponent is playing too many wolves.
I'd cut Jace, Memory Adept. It's more important for you to reliably cast fog than it is for you to power through with jace.
I disagree with removing Jace, Memory Adept the constant card draw keeping plenty of fog effects in hand is too good, and ultimatly, a win con.
Witchbane Orb is the card I really question, do they ever have a reason to make it in? And as a 3 of? I feel Devastation Tide would fit better as an emergency button, or maybe a sword or 2 for the Snapcaster Mage making an alternate wincon.
+1, this deffinatly looks scary
@ryanw2011 Negate is more for countering other counterspells that try to nullify a critical Fog. I played against a UB Zombie deck recently, for example, that attacked for lethal damage and then tried to counter my Clinging Mists. That is what Negate is for. It can also counter planeswalkers and such, if it comes to that. Outwit doesn't work for any of those things.
I agree with everyone about the Otherworld Atlas removal. It's just too slow and clunky, and Thought Scour, Jace, Memory Adept, and Tamiyo, the Moon Sage all offer alternate methods of drawing cards in addition to my Rites of Flourishing.
@CrushU I'm just terrified (rimshot) of fateful hour. It's just soooo close to death. It does make for a cool interaction with Tamiyo, the Moon Sage 's -2, but only if you play her after the mists. Otherwise, she might be the one getting attacked.
It's a cool interaction, and if it works that's great, but I'm just scared/cautious/etc. Things like Hellrider have me seeing waking nightmares ahhh.
There have been some janky combo decks cropping up at my local game store of late. The ones I'm most afraid of are the two Venser, the Sojourner decks that are currently floating around at FNM. To that end, I'm nixing my two sideboard Terrifying Presence for 2x Volition Reins.
Because I'm feeling evil. And I like the prospect of potentially playing with four planeswalkers at one time.
I don't like the Karn Liberated. Personally, i built this exact deck yesterday before you made all these changes, and WRECKED with it. The only problem i saw with it at all was the fact that it needed removal for things such as Liliana of the Veil. I fixed this problem by taking out the 2 Otherworld Atlas and adding in 2 Beast Within in their place.
But I love Karn. I'll also be the first to admit a strong bias towards him, as the first legendary creature I ever personally owned was Karn, Silver Golem, and I can't help but include the one-of while he's legal. And he is really good removal, and he is an alternate win-con, and I had a mostly free slot. But yeah, I'm biased about him, so feel free to swap him out for anything you want. Devastation Tide might be spiffy, though I'm a little annoyed that it also bounces Rites of Flourishing back to your hand. I might include that as a one-of as well. Thinking about it.
I playtested this against my Frites deck ... I just kept throwing out fog effects stalling and stalling until I could get Jace out and/or Increasing Confusion cast once or twice. Frites in one game had Elesh Norn, Sheoldred, Mikaeus Unhallowed, two Wurmcoil, two Fire Titans, 4 spirits, and 6 mana dorks out. This deck had 40+ life at that point because of a couple Blunt the Assaults I cast. Then I got Jace out and using him and Increasing Confusion I milled Frites to death. Too much fun!!!! I can only imagine a player on the other side mouthing the words "WTF!!" :)
+1 for this deck!!
How does this match up against Wolf-Run Delver and GR Aggro? I have the cards to make every deck in standard and wondering how its matchups are. Currently I'm playing a mono blue control that run 4 Phyrexian Metamorphs and 4 Phantasmal Images to copy the 3 frost Titans I have and create a Lock out.
GR Aggro, for instance, has Huntmaster of the Fells Flip , and even if you're able to fog away all combat damage, your opponent could just alternate between casting multiple spells and casting none, in order to kill you with transform triggers.
Wolf Run decks are even worse, on the average, as most run Inferno Titan in addition to the aforementioned Huntmaster, both of which are excellent ways to kill you without ever landing a single point of actual combat damage.
Delver is going to be a serious problem because of its speed, and will be even more problematic if it runs any counterspells at all. Having a Clinging Mists get Negate d in the face of lethal damage is not going to go well.
It should be said that the goal of this deck is not really to win every game. This deck is all about style, and frustration, and getting your opponent to either ragequit or high-five you. It's going to perform poorly against anything with burn our counterspells (burn can be mitigated somewhat by Witchbane Orb , but it's all up to luck to get it out into play before you're dead), but against most decks, especially durdly aggro decks, white weenie, green stompy, that sort of thing, you are going to mop the floor with your opponent, and demoralize them utterly. Just be wary of things like Grand Abolisher .
All that said, Frost Titan s sound fun. Have you considered Infinite Reflection with those titans? Maybe toss in some cheap illusions or something like Phantasmal Bear and Lord of the Unreal , and then -wham- NOW THEY'RE ALL FROST TITANS. Could be fun!
I have been wondering how Talrand, Sky Summoner might fit into this deck. With all the instants and sorceries, and the rebound of many with Snapcaster Mage s you get a Talrand out and can pump out flying drakes. At least it gives an interesting option instead of mill or in addition to. Only thing is what to take out. Hard choice I think.
@amazingronaldo I think he could definitely be a good sideboard card, if nothing else! I'm going to throw him on my Maybeboard for now. I think he's an excellent alternate win condition, especially if you bring him in during game two, hopefully after your opponent has sided out all of their removal spells.
I haven't gotten a good chance to look into editing this deck with M13 yet. I'll make an update when I get back into Turbofog mode.
I've been running a stripped down, cheap version of turbofog for giggles on MGTO. Like you said, I get a lot of people hating on me because of it, and occasionally someone will be impressed.
Burn isnt as much of an issue as I thought it would be. Blunt the assault helps a lot here, unless it's straight burn and no creatures. Wolf-Run isnt so bad either, as someone has to be turned sideways to make the wolf-run effective. The question is.... How to deal with delver?
I'm curious to know if you had any matches against delver, and what your strategy was. After all, they dont need any buffs on a delver, so long as they can back it with dissipate and mana leak.
@Tioras Yeah, that's a pretty grim matchup. You can side in Negate after game 1, and I intend to add some Fog Bank s in the sideboard to try to slow Delver's tempo a bit, but uh, yeah. It's going to be difficult to beat Delver.
A smallish fraction of Delver decks run only a few counterspells, so you could hope you're going against one of those, rather than the ones with six counterspells in their sideboard. I know that's not entirely comforting, but woooo honesty!
Lol. That's basically what I'm seeing too. I have Autumn's veil in the sb too, but it does seem... underwhelming. The problem with just siding in negate is that the deck is giving them more counters at the same time, and have sided out fog effects (in all likelyhood). So.. yeah. Maybe Nihil Spellbomb to negate card:Runechanter's Pike?
ya, that is the problem with the deck, because your not dealing damage...unless u get a thrun and that can't even do any justice, I can use phyrexian mana all day...once october rolls around you won't have to worry about that, but you will have to worry about burn spells, so I suggest putting into your sideboard 4x Flashfreeze ...until it rolls out, and then you're kinda screwed against burn decks XD I would suggest something like adding in Primordial Hydra ...you not taking damage, and then when it ramps up (as you should have plenty of mana in your pool sitting around) you can summon a 4/4 or even 5/5 hydra and two or three turns later...win con against burn decks! can't outburn a 120/120 hydra (yes that happened to me :3)
@Inces_Velus While Flashfreeze is not at all a bad idea, I am running 4x Negate and 3x Witchbane Orb in my sideboard, which shuts down virtually all of my red worries except for Inferno Titan and Hellrider . For those two nasty fellas, I have hopes that Tamiyo, the Moon Sage , Beast Within , or even a sideboarded Karn Liberated or Volition Reins can take care of them, at least one at a time.
Not going to lie: decks with counterspells, decks with burn, and decks with recurring zombie life loss shenanigans (card:Geralf's Messenger+Birthing Pod +Restoration Angel = omg) are all bad matchups for plucky ol' Turbofog. Which is to say: most of the current metagame.
White weenie and green stompy though?! Those decks are dead, lol.
see, you would hate the decks I run as they always mix control and aggro...which usually people say "you'll never make the combo work" but as I have pulled off everytime the wins...I can make aggro and control work, so when I suggest Primordial Hydra it is not me being nice with a thought...it is a must for this deck...the ability to let that hydra "sit" allows that ability to make a 120/120 trample EASY! and with counter spells to protect it.....can you say rape the enemy? XD it also makes for a nicer meta game against people who play those decks because you will sooner or later be over powered
Also, I know it's rotating out, but it's cheap...ever thought about adding card:Venser's Journal into this deck as with tamiyo you get everything back to your hand allowing for a larger hand than normal
@Inces_Velus Fair points about Primordial Hydra , though I think you could convey the power of a 120/120 trampler without bringing up rape. If you'll excuse the tangent, "rape" as a word and with all its context is too powerful and far too wrapped up in a serious societal problem to be associated with reducing an opponent's life total to -100. I beg your forgiveness if no one has ever objected to the use of it before, but because it is capable of triggering unwanted and traumatic memories in people you might not expect, it's probably best if the hydra restricts itself to just tearing enemy planeswalkers apart and eating their faces, with, you know, squirrel- and various other woodland creature-based condiments. Like ketchup. /end tangent
If I get around to editing the deck again (I haven't played it or altered it in two months), I'll definitely look into adding Primordial Hydra , as well as card:Venser's Journal. The journal has been sitting in my maybeboard awaiting just such an occurrence, actually, and thanks to a couple of ridiculous sealed pools at prerelease tournaments, I now have seven(!) hydras lying around, gathering dust and dried leaves (I store them with the Forest s, obviously. You should see the water damage and wet rot that my blue and black cards get into).
Honestly though, I think I might be about done with the deck. Maybe the archetype will get some support after rotation, but the loss of Rites of Flourishing and the annoyance of playing turbofog will probably mean a different deck comes out of this one. Then again, who knows. A week from now, I might be thinking obsessively about Fog again!
As it stands right now, this deck gets annihilated by enemy Planeswalkers before sideboarding. Beast Within is perfect for TurboFog since you don't care about any creatures. Beast Within also helps you deal with Inferno Titan , which is probably the biggest threat against TurboFog in Standard.
Hokay, I've been getting enough recent suggestions that I suppose it's time to dust this thing off and give it the update it's been needing for the past months, at least until things start rotating out this fall. Yes, the deck is still going to die to everything. But at least it can look like it's trying to not die.
@zandl Agreed, on all points. I'm going to make those changes at the very least, and probably others, so mayhap there will be an update in a few minutes. It would be nice to get this deck current.
Added the easy to remove but otherwise plucky Fog Bank to stall things a bit early on, and 2x Reliquary Tower , so I can hang on to as many spells as I can draw, in addition to making the changes suggested by zandl two posts above.
Thank you all for the continued interest in the deck!
@Inces_Velus Sorry, no Primordial Hydra this time. I'm intending the above deck list as a pure fog-mill deck, but one of the intentions of the deck is to spawn additional variants of the archetype. If you'd like to build a hydra version of your own, go for it! I think it's got potential, as long as you account for all the spare removal spells that will be hurtling toward your hydra's many heads. I imagine Vapor Snag followed by Snapcaster Mage +Vapor Snag every few turns will be terribly annoying for the big fella. So...Ring of Evos Isle ? For that matter, Invisible Stalker +Ring of Evos Isle would also be spiffy, if you were into such things.
I'm too nervous about letting Snapcaster Mage go, crutch as he is, because a chunk of the games I lost were to a Negate that came down when I only had one Fog effect available in hand. His inclusion gives me a necessary out.
However, I really like Pristine Talisman over Fog Bank now. The wall will just get killed by whatever removal the opponent draws, for lack of any other targets aside from chump-blocking snapcasters, and the talisman has the added benefit of ramp which can be desperately important in the early- to mid-game. Plus, as you mentioned in your deck description, it's a buffer against burn. So I think I'll be making that change.
I appreciate the assist, seriously. I will emblazon your name within the hallowed halls of my deck description, honored Green Master.
card:Alchemist's Refuge would be okay, but Flashing in Rites of Flourishing in order to avoid your opponent getting a benefit is pointless. TurboFog doesn't care that Rites comes down on the third turn.
Thought Scour is teh sex, and really helps you get to those essential Rites of Flourishing , Fog s, and lands when you really, desperately need them. The mill is mostly incidental, but does allow you to kill with it should you get a chance to use Tamiyo, the Moon Sage 's ultimate.
Moonmist , like Terrifying Presence , is just too risky. Sure, it sometimes works out really well for you, but it's not worth the danger of Huntmaster of the Fells Flip , which remains a popular, dominating card.
@Nephilim I knoooow, I got rid of Noxious Revival ! The whole "top of its owner's library" thing started to get a bit annoying. Snapcaster Mage does the effect better, in my opinion, even if it requires a bigger mana investment, because you get the same flexibility along with a free chump blocker.
A more budget-friendly alternative to Snapcaster Mage that I would still like a little bit better than Noxious Revival is the newly reprinted Revive . It's not an instant, but the fact that your target spell goes directly into your hand is good enough for me.
If you are worried about things like hellrider and need a panic button, you can side splash some white and run terminus as your oh s*** button. Unlike the tide, it won't reset the entire board so card advantage and walkers are still in, plus you can use noxious revival or reclaim, to miracle it if you need.
BTW, did not see any Visions of Beyond in this deck...if oyu are milling them out, the use of 3 cards for a single mana...over and over again is amazing! and I would not focus on mill, because alot of decks sideboard Elixir of Immortality that would keep the game going forever...throw in a single powerhouse to finish them off and use the turbo fog usage to the advantage of no combat damage to you
My quibble with Visions of Beyond is that, if there are twenty cards in someone's graveyard, I've likely already got my mill engine going, probably in the form of Jace, Memory Adept , and all I really need to do at that point is stall a couple of turns while he goes to work for me. I also don't really need heavy card draw late in the game, since I will likely have two or more Rites of Flourishing and any combination of blue planeswalkers, both of which are capable of drawing cards for me. Visions is kind of a win-more card at that point.
Where card draw is most important is early in the game, when I'm still trying to get established. Ponder is probably better than Thought Scour for the early game purpose, but I like that Thought Scour can be a win condition with Tamiyo, the Moon Sage , so I figure it's personal preference. Visions of Beyond cantrips, but that's about all it does in those moments when you really need it to provide the difficult-to-acquire extra oomph.
A fully agree with inces_velus that you should have a definite win con in here. Not just hope they rage quit and forfeits.
This is kinda way out there but maybe Omniscience ? No amount of graveyard into library shuffling will survive omniscience+tamiyo emblem+thought scour.It is kind of expensive but that's where the fog can help you stall for the lands. With this, you can also add anything you want that fits this deck cause mana cost isn't a problem anymore.
There's also Stormtide Leviathan that fogs not flying and island walk creatures...? Just a thought.
Are we really debating which cards would be better with Tamiyo's Emblem? Split hairs moar.
That, and it will probably never happen.
Chalice of Life Flip is cool and all, but any self-respecting TurboFog deck should be designed to start Fog ging once it falls to 7-10 life. There's no need to use a perfectly good Fog against 2 small creatures when you're sitting at 20. Life gain is good in TurboFog, but only because it allows you to keep your life total stabilized while taking a few hits here and there.
That being said, dorminjake: What are your thoughts on using Glimmerpost ? Maybe Thragtusk ? I haven't updated my TurboFog list since M13, but I would have to give Thragtusk some thought since he comes out, gains 5, and then gives me two decently-sized blockers. Also, how do you feel about using Thought Scour ? It seems like an obvious choice in a deck that wants to draw and mill, but I was always underwhelmed by it. I would've almost just wanted Ponder instead, since the "mill-2" almost never mattered in my games.
@zandl true and i agree on that but reasons for asking are is tht chalice could surve as a extra win option.
its most likely not gonna happen that it flips but unless the 1coloorless mana is realy needed chalice is just as good. if you do actually get past 30 you should be capable of surviving a direct hit if you dont well then i realy doubt the talisman would make much diffrense. additional reasons are that talisman will rotate out(well atleast doubt it will get a reprint).
@zandl Honestly, Ponder is probably a better choice than Thought Scour for this deck, but I like that Scour is instant-speed and does have some offensive capabilities just in case Tamiyo's ultimate does go off. Her ultimate really shouldn't in most cases, considering how amazing her -2 ability is, but it should be mentioned that I have killed with Thought Scour yo-yos, as an alternate win-con to Jace, Memory Adept .
And now I would like to move for all future uses of instants and sorceries with Tamiyo's emblem to be called "Tamiyo-yos."
Thragtusk is cool (I'm playing tons of them in other green decks, and loving it), but I think it might be a little sluggish for this deck, at five mana. If I can get her down early, then that's cool, but I kind of feel like she'd be useless in the late game against most decks. The reason for that is because, since this deck employs no board wipes, a creature-based opponent's army will eventually achieve a critical mass where they can just one-shot me, regardless of my totally rad blocker.
That said, I think I definitely want Thraggy in my sideboard, to help against burn spells and decks employing only a few large, easily chump-blocked threats. I might just catch an opponent off guard after they side out all of their creature removal! Thanks for the suggestion!
Glimmerpost is also a good suggestion. The life gain might only end up amounting to a drop in the bucket, but I think it might actually be more helpful than Reliquary Tower . Even with all of the card draw in the deck, my hand rarely overflows, excepting Tamiyo (and she has her own ways to keep a stuffed hand intact).
@Sagi007 The mana from Pristine Talisman is actually really helpful, as it allows me to play my various planeswalkers faster, and gives me a little more leeway to play expensive fogs like Blunt the Assault . Chalice of Death Flip Flip is a pretty saucy alternate win-con, but with it attacking life totals rather than the library, it doesn't have much synergy with the rest of the deck. That said, I think the idea of a green-white fog deck based heavily on life gain would love that card!
Mind Unbound could very easily end up being suicidal in a way, if it results in you decking yourself before you can mill your opponent out. And by the time you should be able to cast it (not just six mana--you also need to have mana available for a Fog variant) you should really be playing actual threats like Jace, Memory Adept instead (who, coincidentally, can actually draw you more cards if/when you need them, but in a much more controllable way).
Omniscience costs too much mana to be of any real use, especially once you're up to ten lands. This deck is designed to be swimming in mana. There's also the problem that the card just doesn't do anything on its own, and the deck isn't really built to capitalize on its free spells.
I actually like card:Venser's Journal, and had it in the sideboard at one point in time to help against burn decks, but then I realized Witchbane Orb was just better, and cheaper, for achieving a similar, and actually more powerful, effect.
There's also the problem that Mind Unbound and card:Venser's Journal rotate out next week, though so does much of the rest of the core of this deck, so that's a little moot at this point.
Thanks for the suggestion, nonetheless! I think I'm going to keep the current decklist as the official, retiring decklist, and will probably not be editing it any time soon. Rest in peace, Rites of Flourishing . You will be missed by a couple of us.
@Fatty_Lumpkin I knoooooooow -starts sobbing uncontrollably.
There's always Staff of Nin , Otherworld Atlas , or Righteous Authority for doubling your card draws, but none of those things effectively replace Rites of Flourishing , with its low cost and multiple-lands-per-turn-ness.
Rites of Flourishing can't be replaced by Staff of Nin ,Righteous Authority , or any of those because Rites of Flourishing sped up your board and milled your opponent at the same time, all the while not really helping out your opponent (since you'd just be drawing a Fog every turn or two).
Otherworld Atlas is the closest thing to it that we'll have post-rotation, but it's just not nearly as good. It costs more and needs to charge up. And Artifacts are more easily destroyed than Enchantments.
The reason I suggested Omniscience , is Tamios ultimate. Unlimited counter spells? I'll bite . And in EDH, those cards serve me well as to the point I didn't think how dangerous they are to you in a format with much less cards. As well I sucked back then.
Venser's Journal now, since it is not longer a standard deck, is great, but your hand size wouldn't grow to be enough to really make it worth it.
HA! If ti is ok with you I am going to steal you name for my Idea of a fog deck (planeswalkers' name) Turbofog. But this would be great for bant control. In current standard. So I might try my had at this post rotation.
Doubling Season is a fun card, And the reason I say this is that planes walkers use counters. Just a suggestion for fun.
This is just me rambling. Looks pretty solid to me, you know what you are doing. I would love if you could give me suggestions for my standard decks.
Really fun deck. :)