Master of Cruelties is good and yes can't be shut down by Jace, but wouldn't the opponent just block as it would be a 0/4 with deathtouch?

Unless you're assuming there are no blockers as you've cleared them all out

ByrneTheSkylite I like the mill 2 ability but the mana base is already difficult to play around and UB1 is harder to cast than divination. I'm also not worried about Jace because of all my removal. Going to play test with the new additions. Aggro is the hardest to play against.

Well in a three color control deck with a lot of double blue and double black mana symbols it usually doesn't make a difference, especially with all of the duel lands. Grixis gains a lot from Quicken since it has Dreadbore and Thoughtseize but it's not card advantage it's just a cycle. I also found Dimir Charm is good main board too, because it hits aggro hard, counters Thoughtseize which hurts control, and helps hit those tough land drops.

I also think you need Opportunity , a control deck without card draw just doesn't work out very well (2 Divination alone isn't enough). Dimir Charm is a good mainboard card.

I dislike Thassa, God of the Sea . You don't have the means to turn her off and if in some rare case you can, you don't need her ... Overall I don't like the creature base very much, it's not enough that something could stick on the board against any kind of creature removal but takes away valuabel card space. I would remove most of them, up your AEtherling count to 2 and add the afortementioned spells.

Overall it's a fine deck you build!

Thassa, God of the Sea is a "combo" card with Master of Cruelties to make him unblockable. Think of her as a "blue Underworld Connections " in that she "cycles away" the cards you want instead of drawing them and losing a life each turn, with the benefit of making something unblockable

harrydemon117 Exactly. It's a great combo, and if they try to kill master, I keep counter spells back. I don't use her for her creature ability. I could probably up divination to 3. Playtesting takes time and the current build is good enough to get my Top 4 for the last 2 months at my shop. Thanks for all your suggestions!

@DrFunk27: I have a new build "shoving" the master in Black devotion but retaining grixis colors. Take a look!

Devotion to a TRUE Master

so I have come to a conundrum when it comes to two certain cards for a grixis control deck, this is mainly meant for my own deck but it can apply to others too. which god works best in a grixis deck. Thassa, God of the Sea , or Erebos, God of the Dead . cause thassa helps Master of Cruelties get through for the game changing life swing and scrys on your upkeeps, but erebos gives you a way to counter Sphinx's Revelation as well is extra card draw, a bulkier creature body, and is easier to turn into a creature based on the other permanents in my deck, If anyone has a moment to stop by and give a suggestion to my deck for the grand prix tomorrow Id greatly appreciate it.

Shuttle and Loom, I Weave Your Doom

Card draw sources, which do you prefer?Divination Inspiration or Underworld Connections

Why Drown in Sorrow over Anger of the Gods ? Neither will kill your creatures, and anger will kill more. I think it would be more useful in the long run against aggro.

Dalektable I was just experimenting. I used anger main for a long time and it works well. Probably going back.

I would run Bile Blight MB over anger and sorrow just because of the instant speed

Drown in Sorrow > Anger of the Gods vs mono blue as it will also hit a Master of Waves . Otherwise, you leave behind a 2/1 that buffs Mutavault s and future Elemental tokens.

It will depend on what matchup you face of course. Let me give you another example. White weenie. In this instance all they need to have to "counter" Anger of the Gods is Brave the Elements and you're screwed. Having Drown in Sorrow on the other hand doesn't deal damage thus will not matter what they have in hand

@STABtrain -

Underworld Connections - Better Sustained Card draw, at the cost of life. Against Aggro and Other control you may not be able to sustain this loss of life if you are running Thoughtseize over Duress . This also brings up Read the Bones , similar issue.

Divination > Inspiration . Same amount of card draw, 1 less mana to cast.

Opportunity > Divination . Problem is, not being able to hit your draw mechanic without that hefty 6 CMC is problematic.

I am play testing using Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius - 2 mana do one damage draw. It isn't as quick to get to the table as Underworld Connections , I have to pump mana to get my draw. With enough mana I am doing direct damage and drawing cards. End of turn your, pop you for 2 draw 2 cards.

Niv-Mizzet also helps stabilize against Aggro decks, I've found. I run a 1-of in my Grixis list.

Kaitoghost How does Niv-Mizzet stabilize against Aggro?

The removal keeps me in the game long enough to drop him. Once he hits, he's bigger than most of Aggro's creatures, and he's removal on a stick. If they attack into him, he can kill 2-3 creatures a turn. If they don't attack, well, then you aren't taking any damage. ;)

He's not as good as AEtherling in most matchups, which is why I only run 1-of, but he's strong enough to be mainboard. It also gives me a second win-con, in case AEtherling gets hit by Slaughter Games .

Kaitoghost Fair enough. I much prefer Stormbreath Dragon though.

Stormbreath while good is not the card it's played up to be. The protection from white is clutch. It should have also had either Pro Blue or Pro black to be as good a card as they make it.

Monstrous is great. But even if you drop him turn five your only going to get a few cards unless your playing against a blue card drawing engine. Hence why it should have either pro blue or black to make it an Esper nightmare.

Niv-Mizzet has a built in trigger that when it does damage to a player you draw a card. But they allow you to pump 2 mana to do 1 damage and draw a card.

Lets compare this as a creature without this pump ability to Stormbreath.

Stormbreath Dragon - 4/4 Flyer.
Pro White.
Haste. 5 CMC

Add Monsterous 7CMC anybody remeber echo? This is basically paying his echo cost a few turns later to give him +3/+3 and do damage to everyone based on hand size.

Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius - 5/5 Flyer. When he does combat damage to a player draw a card.
6CMC.
Pay 2CMC to do 1 damage to anything on the board. (this triggers the first ability).

Niv-Mizzet's activated ability is better to me than Erebos, God of the Dead activated ability.

I am on the fence about the ability being better than Underworld Connections enchantment ability.

As a creature Niv-Mizzet doesn't stack against Stormbreath. It's the difference between Mid-Range and Control to me. Niv-Mizzet is a board control piece that has to be dealt with. The storm breath can be blocked by Desecration Demon , hit by a Mizzium Mortars . Yes it's good for aggro. Control doesn't care about aggro, it exists on controlling the board until someone is out of responses and then cutting you to death with something small and dull.

I hadn't looked at it that way. Perhaps I will rethink using him. lol

@DrFunk27

Here is the prototype of the Grixis list I will be running after BotG drops. I think there is one counter spell Nullify that I want to work 2 of into the deck to handle those pesky Gods before they hit the table. So I am determining if Swan Song > Nullify . I think with the creature & enchant heavy meta in the Theros block for regular play Nullify may be better.

Take a look, let me know what you think.

The problem with that is you have to GET to 6 mana in order to drop him and hope the aggro player hasn't been sitting on 2 x Lightning Strike s the entire time waiting to finish you off. If you exhaust your removal the first 5 turns, chances are you don't have anything left turn 6 other than the dragon and then you're screwed. Better yet, against white weenie they have a Chained to the Rocks they've been holding onto because you haven't dropped a creature the entire game, and you don't have enchantment removal.

In theory the dragon seems better, but after playtesting a decent amount the law of averages don't lie :)

Here are the 4 "main" win cons as far as creatures go for Grixis:

Desecration Demon , Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius , Stormbreath Dragon , AEtherling

here is the most common removal used in standard at the moment:

• Devour Flesh (all will die to it anyway but at least you'll gain some life)

• Hero's Downfall (only AEtherling can dodge this without a counterspell involved

• Chained to the Rocks (Stormbreath Dragon is the only one that has protection from this)

Detention Sphere (again, the SBD is the only one that dodges this)

Abrupt Decay (none of these are affected)

Lightning Strike (only a problem in multiples for these creatures, and not really for AEtherling )

Mizzium Mortars (only SBD dies to this if it's not monstrous)

So from the above list, SBD dodges more than the others, but is susceptible to Mizzium Mortars .

So the TRUE question now becomes: What are the chances I will face decks with these removal options? Since ESPER control, U/W Control, White Weenie (Boros, Orzhov, and even Naya decks now), Monoblack devotion are the most common, I think it's safe to say that You have an equal chance to see each of these. With that in mind, SBD has the biggest % chance of being able to dodge their removal spells.

Of special note, SBD also dodges Selesnya Charm from pro white as well. :)

Best bet for win cons is AEtherling by far, but I like having an extra one like was previously mentioned vs Slaughter Games . I am also not a fan of Desecration Demon right now because they can just sac a creature to tap him and move on through for the win

harrydemon117 The point of demon is that they won't have any creatures on the board because of all the removal. At most they should have 1 MAYBE 2 creatures so they won't want to sac. Plus, Ral comes in handy with untapping him for blocking.

@harrydemon117

Very good analysis. I don't really disagree with any of it. For me Niv Mizzet is a card draw engine more than a win condition. AEtherling is the only real one I intend to run unless my local meta teaches me it won't work.

Standard tournament last week in 4 rounds I faced Rakdos Black Devotion, Orzhov Black Devotion, Orzhov control and Black devotion. My SBD in my BWR deck came to play in all four matches and under performed. Believe he got Dreadbore , Devour Flesh , Hero's Downfall and Celestial Flare . I literally did 4 damage with him and he hit the table all 4 matches. Now my BWR deck doesn't have the control aspects Grixis does, but it's still safe to say there are ways around protection.

I hadn't thought about Chained to the Rocks . Detention Sphere is enough for me to give him a second thought for an additional win con.

I am interested to see how the idea stacks against my buddies Esper Deck. Still looking for some life drain other than Gray Merchant of Asphodel but I think we may be stuck with him in standard for a while.