I like the idea of having Knight of Glory in the sideboard vs B/x Aggro and Zombies. Definitely gonna use that in my deck deck:uw-azorius-control-v3. I haven't been too hot on Syncopate in control decks thus far. In all of the testing I have done against fast aggro decks I am always wanting to cast other spells on early turns and it's just not as effective late. Not to mention Cavern is a thing.
In the new format I keep seeing lots of creatures played that don't mind dying or are hard to outright kill with regular "destroy" effects. I really feel that spells like "Dungeon Geists" are well positioned in the current format because it doesn't die to pillar and it can deal with Thragtusk and friends with minimal effort. I would recommend at least sideboarding a few for heavy aggro matchups.
P.S. I wish I had the money for NewJace and more Tamiyos. The synergy between those two is amazing.
Overall great deck. Nice work. +1
October 11, 2012 2:54 p.m.
The reasons for not running cards such as Dungeon Geists
- They play against mid-range beatdown and that isn't a deck that this struggles against. This deck has a very strong match up against mid-range.
- I run eight wraths. Not many are but I love them, nearly every game its wrath followed by a tamiyo next turn which locks almost everything down.
I also perfer Geists in a deck which has a lower curve (much like the old delver decks) where you beat down and use this a beat down and control.
October 11, 2012 3:39 p.m.
This looks real good to me. Although im not too fond of Thought Scour . more times than less I end up milling something that would have helped me a lot.
Also u didnt link your deck on mine, but i easily found it lol.
October 22, 2012 1:37 a.m.
So i didn't, sorry about that lol.
The way you have to look at Thought Scour is that you aren't loosing cards by putting two in the graveyard. Much like the cards at the bottom of your deck which you don't draw. The reason I love it is that I can naturally flashback Think Twice and use Snapcaster Mage to flashback anything else, or if I mill creatures I can you Angel of Serenity to get use out of them as well.
The only dead mills are planeswalkers, enchantments and land. But you can't look at them as cards you've lost, but as cards you wouldn't have drawn. This build really does get great value out of it. The fact that it is only one mana is also great, if I have it i can play it turn one, or I can use it cheaply to try and hit miracles on my opponents turn.
October 22, 2012 5:16 a.m.
Nice deck sir, I like the win cons you've built into it. They provide a flashy finale in contrast to the naturally reserved deck type you're running. Of course that's where my deck:block-party-1, and yours differ the most since I chose a polar opposite win con w/ milling.
That being said what I find most interesting and perhaps helpful to me is your suit of draw cards.... I NEED draw and you seem to have quite a bit of.
Now the (friendly) critique: I have no clue as to how much you've run this against meta decks but... how the hell are you surviving against speed aggro of R/B zombies and G/W exalted!? I take it the charm is doing alot of the heavy lifting in this area? Also may I ask why you'd chose an O-ring over another Det-sphere?
October 25, 2012 1:18 p.m.
First lets look at its match up against fast aggro decks like B/X zombies and Rakdos aggro etc. This deck has played a lot against those types of decks as I know that they are decks that control typically struggles with.
So first off well look at it pre-sideboard. Azorius Charm pulls some weight. An aggro player playing a creature, then next turn me putting it back on top of their deck so they have to re-draw it then re-play really slows decks down for a turn or two. It can of course be used from the graveyard with Snapcaster Mage which also gives me a blocker with 2 power which can kill many aggro cards. Then you have Detention Sphere and Oblivion Ring to hit threats on the field. This all slows them down for a couple of turns, by that time you build up your hand and your land, plus the amount of draw the deck runs it hits Terminus (which isnt necessary but can win the game against aggro). But when you get to 4-5 mana you can start casting Jace and Tamiyo. Jace gives -1 to all opponent creatures which can be relevant and Tamiyo slows the board right down (especially after a wrath) as well as using Entreat the Angels from hand for a 4/4 which really helps. Then when you get to turn 6 youre on easy street, Terminus as well as card:Sphinx's Revelation the game becomes strongly in your favour. Its all about using the deck to slow the opponent for enough turns. It doesnt forgive mistakes against aggro though, if you misplay youre in trouble.
Post-sideboard, this is where this deck takes aggro decks by surprise. You bring in 4x Knight of Glory , 4x Geist of Saint Traft , 1x Detention Sphere and 2x Supreme Verdict . It can put really put creatures on the field for a board presence and uses Azorius Charm not to bouce but to give my guys lifelink. For example say I have a Snapcaster Mage and Geist of Saint Traft on the field, when they swing they may very well die but they will take other with them, then you give them lifelink and regardless of damage you deal you gain 8 life. Of course Azorius Charm isnt necessary, the change comes in that after sideboard the decks becomes a control/tempo deck which is really fun.
Its all about staying alive for the late game, looking for the play that will keep you there and although it may not look like it this deck really does have it because you only need to survive for a few turns.
October 25, 2012 2:37 p.m.
As for the 2x Detention Sphere to 1x Oblivion Ring , the Oblivion Ring usually does enough as more often than not you would only be targeting one creature anyway, so its not a penalty. The reason its there though is because control is very popular, especially blue/white and bant. This means you play against people running Detention Sphere and more often than not it hits an Angel of Serenity or Tamiyo, the Moon Sage . The Oblivion Ring lets me exile the opponents Detention Sphere so I can have my win cons back, because I cant Sphere their Sphere.
Hope that answers your concerns. Any other questions Ill be more than happy to answer them. And if you think the deck has reached a standard you like, of course +1 and show it to any friends who play control, Im always more than happy to share idea.
October 25, 2012 2:37 p.m.
Excellent defense of your deck!! I believe you've provided an alternative to using such late game dead draws as Kraken Hatchling and Fog Bank which are currently serving as my early game stall. It now seems pretty obvious that Azorius Charm is far superior.
With this new perspective your deck appears to be as solid as you claim, +1. Now I'm off to perfect mine....
October 26, 2012 1:45 p.m.
haha shortly after posing an azorius deck on tapped out i scanned the main page and came across yours.. needless to say i felt outclassed. The only recomendation i might have would be unsummon over thought scour. running 4 unsummons and 4 azorious charms combo'd with snapcaster leads to mean early game which is your opponent drawing the same freaking creature over and over again and when they tap out for a big beater you just unsummon it to their frustration. its just more helpful to stall for one of your plainswalkers or entreats. great deck!
October 26, 2012 8:04 p.m.
@SwampHippie - Its all about playing it over and over and really looking and gaining that connection with that deck and learning what it needs and how the cards all feel together. And as its control it will keep changing, it has to because it has to keep with what the meta is doing, but thats the challenge and the fun in control.
@Splintergeist - Thank you very much, a lot of time and love has been put into this deck and its still growing. The problem I with unsommons is I don't like it as much as Cyclonic Rift . Cyclonic Rift was played for a bit but was underwhelming because it just didn't slow them down as much as I would have liked. But I don't even run any in the board, It just doesn't feel quick right in the deck, but that is a personal choice and comes down to my personal play style because its a very strong card.
I'm glad you like the deck, feel free to +1 if you feel its worthy and get it out there. And if you want any help with any decks or to bounce some ideas around just let me know.
As a side note I'm always helpsing out people with decks (esp blue/white) so feel free to subscribe and follow me round these decks and we can all put in our opinions.
October 27, 2012 4:14 a.m.
I just realized that in a mirror match up, Detention Sphere could make you exile cards of your own, along with the target.
October 28, 2012 9:57 p.m.
Woa! Its like realizing rakdos charm makes your creatures turn on you as well.
October 28, 2012 10:02 p.m.
Yeah you do have to be careful when using it, there aren't many cards in which it happens with though, Angel of Serenity (although its hard for both players to have one on the field as they exile the other when they enter), Snapcaster Mage , Oblivion Ring and Angel tokens. Thats pretty much it, it can't do it with Jace and Tamiyo for example and the deck runs a lot of instant and sorcery spells.
But yeah, you need to be careful.
October 29, 2012 6:09 a.m.
Hi Khaara, comment #7 is a description of how I play against aggro decks, and the same principle applies to burn decks. The advantage I have is that burn decks at the moment aren't very strong. There isn't enough very strong burn cards and there is a lot of life gain in the meta (Thragtusk and Centaur Healer being the main ones).
So burn isn't strong anyway and its in a bad meta so I see very little of it, but I deal with it the same as I deal wiith aggro and in the games I've played it works very well. I only have to give my guys lifelink once to win a game, or use card:Sphinx's Revelation, and their foot troops I can deal with.
October 30, 2012 5:04 a.m.
This look great, very playable. Do you think you could offer some advice on my Azorius Control deck as well? http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/if-you-play-vs-uw-youre-gonna-have-a-bad-time/
October 30, 2012 1:04 p.m.
I think you should consider running Feeling of Dread . It's just unbelievably good at stalling your opponents while you wait for the win conditions or establish a board presence. In my opinion, it's a must against aggro decks, while you wait to draw a Terminus or to afford Supreme Verdict .
You might be able to sideboard it, or slide it in the main over the dissipates and Azorius Charm . Why do you have 4 ACs mainboarded anyway? I know you explained this somewhat, but shouldn't they be in the sideboard at the very least? Since you only have 6 creatures mainboarded in, the lifelink seems almost useless to me. I would prefer Unsummon for bounce since it's half the price, plays better with Snapcaster Mage , and has more range- as card draw it's simply underwhelming. Just a thought though (Hell, I prefer Cyclonic Rift since it can double as board wipe and even hang around to deal with planeswalkers in a pinch)
Other than that, solid list and it looks versatile. If you don't mind, check out my deck deck:cuban-miracles and offer some feedback, but mine isn't too different from yours at all.
October 30, 2012 1:29 p.m.
- It doesn't just slow down and stall the board, it gives them a dead draw which puts you a card ahead.
- Its card draw is underwhelming but its an option, againts control I'll often use its card draw ability which is absolutley fine then in game two side it out if I feel its the right choice for the deck I'm against.
- There is no game in which it doesn't do anything. Its consistant and with a control deck that is exactly what I want. Regardless of match it can always be used.
- Its lifelink ability is very relavent when it comes to aggro, I only have 6 creatures but I also have Entreat the Angels . Even if I make one angel I can gain 4 life off it, then flashi t back with Snapcaster Mage and re-use it. That may seem like just a very small amount but against aggro and burn it counts. Also post sideboard the lifelink become much more mainstream within the deck.
I'm not a big fan of Feeling of Dread . You see it in a lot of new decks but you never really see it in the big championships and pro decks. I think the impact it has looks bigger than it is and in time people will replace it for a more consistant mutli-use spell that works against a range of decks.
I like Cyclonic Rift , I was also a fan of Disperse pre-rotation during SOM and this is Rift is just a better version. To me though it just calls out to be in tempo and mid-range decks and I ran it for a while but it was underwhelming and I let it go.
However I have to keep adapting as the meta shifts and Cyclonic Rift is a card which sits next to my sideboard waiting for its time, and we'll see if it comes.
October 30, 2012 2:05 p.m.
Azorius Charm strikes me as a card that's better in the late game. I ran it before and found that, against aggro, it didn't really slow them down as much as I needed and control tends to have the patience to ignore the setback early on. I can see it being devastating late-game though, when your opponent is top-decking. I prefer Unsummon because it's cheaper, faster, and easier to use with the Snapcaster Mage . The lifelink just seems irrelevant to me because I feel like our win conditions are so devastating on their own and we run so few creatures, but your reasoning is valid.
Feeling of Dread , however, may be more awesome than you're giving it credit for. Have you tested it? The beauty of a deck like yours is that if you can survive the first 5 or 6 turns, you tend to be able to shape the board to your liking and you'll almost always win. FoD is an awesome card against aggro decks, because on your opponent's second turn, they're not going to hit you. On their third turn, they're not going to hit you, and by the time their fourth turn rolls along, you're almost always ready to wipe the board.
I've never been disappointed to see it in my starting hand or to draw it. I played against Azorius Aggro on Cockatrice and won 2 out of 3, owing that success to Terminus , Tamiyo, the Moon Sage , and Feeling of Dread (it helped that I was able to neutralize his Geist of Saint Traft .
Aggro does seem to be our biggest problem and the only problematic Control tends to be the mirror match (more or less). I splash red though, so I suppose we have different needs.
October 30, 2012 4:08 p.m.
The deck has been built so that it can combat all fronts effectivly from the first game. Azorius Charm does everything I need it to as well as being effective against any deck I play against (during the first round). Its lifelink becomes very important against B/X aggro, RDW and the like.
Feeling of Dread does work well against certain decks, but its not enough. I play with a very competative group and we all practice in order to take these decks abroad to GP's around Europe and America. Feeling of Dread isn't doing enough against the competitive meta game. I honestly do believe that (unless RDW becomes 70% of decks) you will eventually take it out for something more versitile. But saying that if your meta runs a lot of aggro and it treats you well then that's for you to decide.
Also as a side note I would like to say I really do appriciate debating ideas and talking about cards. If I seem like I just push them aside or if I seem argumentative in anyway that's not how I intend it and it is appriciated. But like many of you out there I'm very passionate about Magic and strive always to build the strongest deck I can. If you find holes in my plan which i can't defend I will fill them, over and over again until its solid. Play testing until I'm happy with every card.
"Experience is the teacher of all things." - Julius Caeser.F.
October 30, 2012 6:41 p.m.
Absolutely. I was worried I was coming across too pushy with the second post but I feel the same as you. You're probably right in the end. Aggro is the most prevalent threat in my meta, so the Dreads are the primary ticket to winning for me.
Maybe I'll throw Azorius Charm in again and see how it plays out.
You seem to have more general Magic experience than me. Would you mind taking a look at the deck I'm running now and giving me some ideas of what I might be weak against and how I might go about sideboarding for those decks, because as of right now, I've been dominating B/G Zombies, G/W and U/W Humans, B/R Burn, and Junk Tokens. I haven't gotten to face any Control decks yet.
October 30, 2012 8:32 p.m.
why dont they have a house? unicameral systems are always flawed..
November 1, 2012 9:12 a.m.
This deck looks really good +1. I'm trying to incorporate some control into my deck W/U Infinite Tokens, but I've never really done control before so I'm looking for some advice. Do any of guys think you could check it out?
November 1, 2012 11:52 a.m.
I am having Talrand, Sky Summoner run at this deck for an idea with the presence of all the instants making an army of drakes. win for you, not for the others.
November 2, 2012 9:51 p.m.
If I were to run Talrand, Sky Summoner it would probably be in place of Geist of Saint Traft in the board as they do a similar job. The problem of course being that he is too easy to kill, but he seems like he would be good fun to run.
November 3, 2012 5:19 a.m.
In the event that you need to board in most of you creatures to amp up the aggro may I what you usually board out? I imagine Think Twice and Dissipate are the prime swap cards for this yet it seems fairly painful to lose your only counters.
Also would you mind critiquing my deck again, its been refined though a weekend long committee session.
November 4, 2012 7:55 p.m.
Just as much as the the deck they are running, the player and their play style has a big effect on what I side in. However I did build a post board version of this deck so people could see how it looks against aggro.
That is the base for against most aggro decks, it's great fun to play, does really well and they don't expect it the first time you do it.
November 5, 2012 5:12 a.m.
I've been building this deck as I got into magic over the last couple of weeks. It was a lot of fun to use it this last week, hoping to get better with it and see if it works well in my area!
Thanks for providing the detail!
I've posted a couple of decks, would love to get some feedback!
November 8, 2012 12:12 a.m.
I have replace Thought Scour with Evolving Wilds I did this because I pull another land card out of the deck increasing my chances of pulling what I need at the cost of it happening on the following turn to hit the miracle and one less card is pulled/mill if I would have left in Thought Scour . However, you gain a re-suffle and saves you one manna that could be useful between turns 2-7 of your deck. This minor change has been working for me but I would like to hear your thoughts on it.
November 12, 2012 12:27 a.m.
I've seen and played with decks which use lands to thin out the deck, Evolving Wilds and the sack lands are the most commonly used examples. I don't hate the idea but in a format this fast I really don't want my land coming in tapped unless it has to, which is why I've taken out the guildgates. If however you really do want to run it don't take out non-land cards for it. Put Thought Scour back in and take out basic land to put them in.
November 13, 2012 8:51 p.m.
After a few more days of play testing it that way, you are 100% right. It is much better off with Thought Scour One other thought that came into my mind was replacing Thought Scour with Temporal Mastery . I haven't tried it yet and before I did I thought I would see what you thought. I keep attacking Thought Scour because as much as I love it, I feel like in this deck if I don't get it on the draw, then I hate seeing the card come up later.
November 19, 2012 9:19 p.m.
This deck has undergone some major changes over the last week or two. Its a lower curve, its stronger game one against aggro (which has shown to be very popular, both G/W and B/R). Its also got a completely new, rogue sideboard that nobody will see coming.
I will post the new build soon, within the next couple of days hopefully. I'm sure many people won't like it, and it won't be to everyones taste. But it remains B/W control and after play testing the new build is playing much stronger, more consistant, and better against this decks bad match ups.
November 20, 2012 6:29 p.m.
One of the best control decks ive seen, wish i could afford to make it
November 20, 2012 8:09 p.m.
i get now why its called the senate , cause nothing ever happens in the senate
April 9, 2013 11:52 a.m.
Damn +1 just for the formatting on the description. and I'd do it again for the deck.
April 9, 2013 3:13 p.m.
I'm sorry this deck-list seems at odds with rule 100.4a
all joking aside I dig it, +1
May 15, 2013 7:19 p.m.
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|Date added||4 years|
|Last updated||4 years|
This deck is Standard legal.
|Tokens||Tamiyo, 4/4 Angel|
|Folders||coppied, U/W angel jace, Interesting, Wants, U/W Inspiration, ~, awesome, Jace's Angels, Idea Decks, favourites, Sick Decks, Interesting, U/W controll|
|Top rank||#10 on 2012-11-04|