Which Gearhulk is the strongest?
Standard forum
Posted on Sept. 22, 2016, 3:27 p.m. by Chandrian
As most/all of you know there is a Gearhulk cycle in KLD. I would like to know which ones you guys think are the strongest and why? Do you think any may find a home outside of Standard?
The Gearhulks are (in alphabetical order): Cataclysmic Gearhulk, Combustible Gearhulk, Noxious Gearhulk, Torrential Gearhulk, Verdurous Gearhulk
Discuss!
Brian Braun-Duin wrote an article on the gearhulks that can be found Here
Ohthenoises says... #3
It depends on the shell.
To me, combustible is he strongest because draw and the white one for control.
1: R/W2: U3: B4: G
I wouldn't be surprised to see a big Boros deck come around with both Gearhulks and eldrazi displacer.
September 22, 2016 3:41 p.m.
metalmagic says... #4
I've been playtesting the new Standard A LOT. I've probably played 30+ hours worth of games so far with friends in preparation for SCG Open Indy, and I think that Verdurous Gearhulk is probably the weakest, although it is still very powerful (the cycle is great). If I had to rank them, I would probably say this:
- 1/2 is tied between Noxious Gearhulk and Cataclysmic Gearhulk. They're both fantastic.
- 3 Torrential Gearhulk - This one has some serious hidden power.
- 4 Combustible Gearhulk - Insane with Saheeli Rai
- 5 Verdurous Gearhulk - Really shines with Thopters and Menace creatures (see Noxious Gearhulk)
September 22, 2016 3:42 p.m.
iBleedPunk says... #5
I think Verdurous Gearhulk will end up being the top played Gearhulk. You either get an 8/8 w/ Trample, can turn 4 2/2s into 3/3, or whatever you damn well please. As Brian Braun-Duin wrote you get complete control over the distribution which is, in my own opinion, better than Cataclysmic Gearhulk and Combustible Gearhulk.
Torrential Gearhulk is good as well but not anything crazy special. Only let's you recast Instants but then again some truly crazy crap can go down depending on the build.
Noxious Gearhulk is also well off. 5/4 with Menace works well with the fact when he drops you are blowing up their best creature. Still better imo than the and Hulk, I'm not fond of giving my opponents any type of choices
EDIT: I'm throwing this edit in to let people know I honestly haven't really been keeping up with Kaladesh spoilers or even Standard in general. My comment is my opinion not facts
September 22, 2016 3:48 p.m. Edited.
White one. Easy. The problem is that Verdurous is bad, and all the others are 6 mana. There's a perfectly good card to play over any 6CMC Gearhulk: Emrakul. Sure, you have to build around it a little more, but there's no comparison in terms of power.
September 22, 2016 4:42 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #7
Brian Braun-Duin and Todd Stevens both listed Verdurous Gearhulk as the strongest Gearhulk in their respective articles, and I can definitely see why. (Hint: it's busted). Personally I'm the most down on Torrential Gearhulk, and while I think Noxious Gearhulk, Cataclysmic Gearhulk, and Combustible Gearhulk are all great, I'm not sure where they stack up to each other for second through fourth.
September 22, 2016 4:46 p.m.
Verderous is getting a little too much hype I think people will realize that when its actually played. The card is good but in practice its nothing too swingy. The black one is definitely first with green in second. White is third in terms of likely to see more play but the blue has a much bigger upside than the white but its just not practical so blue is fourth. Red is last because both in practice and theory it does not stack up well to the others.
September 22, 2016 5:15 p.m.
Personally, I think people are underestimating Combustible Gearhulk just because it lets the other player make a choice. The thing is, when that choice is either drawing 3 cards or potentially dealing a TON of damage straight to the dome, it stops being a problem. Standard decks have a higher average CMC than in other formats, so there's a big chance you'll be dealing at least 5 damage off this dude's ETB trigger. Probably 8 or more.
To me, the weakest one seems to be Cataclysmic Gearhulk, because it makes you sac your stuff too, and has no way of directly getting rid of the opponent's strongest threat (not to mention it's weaker than all other hulks stats-wise). Noxious Gearhulk brings targeted removal and lifegain, and it's hard to block, so it's definitely better. Torrential Gearhulk is a big-ass Snapcaster Mage and I love that, but I just don't like the thought of running 6-mana creatures on an instant-heavy, reactive blue deck. And finally, Verdurous Gearhulk is heavily board state-dependant - powering up an army of 1/1 Servos definitely feels great, but having it ETB as an 8/8 because you have no other creatures and then be killed by Unlicensed Disintegration doesn't.
September 22, 2016 5:51 p.m.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #10
I haven't really formed an opinion of them yet myself, as I haven't playtested any of them. But I find it fascinating that there seems to be so many radically different opinions flying around about this cycle.
Verdurous Gearhulk seems to be highly controversial. I've seen a lot of people dismiss it as useless, and overly dependent on board-state, making it sort of "win-more", but I've also seen a lot of praise sent its way for being flexible and powerful for its mana investment.
Combustible Gearhulk seems polarizing as well. It seems to be taken as cards like Browbeat have in the past. Some argue the point that giving your opponents choices is bad, while others argue that even assuming the opponent always chooses correctly, you still get value for your mana.
Personally though, I think I'm most excited to play with Noxious Gearhulk in my list. He's straightforward, gets rid of the biggest threat, rewards me life for doing so, and proceeds to swing with evasion. That's all on top of being a Black Artifact Creature, dodging quite a fair share of popular removal spells like Go for the Throat and Doom Blade. It's also out of range of Abrupt Decay, and essentially demands more valuable removal like Maelstrom Pulse or Terminate. Even if he eats removal, he's provided removal himself, and left you with a bit of extra life.
Edit: Just realized this is under Standard, so that removal isn't entirely accurate, but either way.
September 22, 2016 6:52 p.m. Edited.
As the poster of this question I haven't given my 2cents yet:
Torrential Gearhulk: it has flash and let's you recast an instant. This is decent in control... but you'll need to have cast an interesting instant before. The body itself isn't strong enough to win you a game as it can eassily be killed. So all in all I think recasting an instant is great, but it's overhyped because people make a link with Snapcaster Mage -> weakest of them all
Cataclysmic Gearhulk while vigilance comes in handy, it doesn't affect the evaluation of this card much. It's ability makes your opponent CHOOSE what (s)he keeps and sacs and FORCES you to sac as well. It's a powerfull effect and can be built around somehow I guess. It's a dead card when you're ahead and everything depends on the boardstate if it wants to bring you back into the game... tied with the next one
Verdurous Gearhulk with trample this has the best "evasion" ability of the hulks. The problem is that you have to play some sort of weenies deck or it'll be very easy to just completely cancel the ETB effect by killing this hulk before it can even swing.
Combustible Gearhulk As mainly a red aggro player I think this is huge, but loses slightly to the next one. First strike makes it strong in offense and defense as it will usually take out stuff without dieing itself. Card draw is always nice in red... and if you managed to put the pressure on from the start no choice your opponent makes will be good for him/her.
ObNoxious Gearhulk killing one creature and gaining life (especially when black usually pays life to get extra benefits) on ETB is very impactfull. A 5/4 menace is a decent bonus. Best gearhulk, worst art on the "normal" card... the art on the Masterpiece one is nice though.
September 22, 2016 6:59 p.m.
metalmagic says... #12
Something cool I've been testing is a UB control shell running both Gearhulks for those colors, and I've been testing out Displace in there as a target for Torrential Gearhulk. You can get some INSANE ETB triggers going on with only those two cards, and it gets even crazier the more you have in the grave already. Pair that with Noxious Gearhulk for even better times.
Another good thing about Torrential Gearhulk is that it can create quite a bit of card advantage. Oftentimes you can get an easy 3-for-1 out of a Murder, Grasp of Darkness, or the new Essence Extraction by 1. Killing the creature you originally cast it on 2. flashing it back and 3. blocking during attacks (which is when you'll kill the second creature). Also flashing back something like Scour the Laboratory is quite good.
I may be a bit biased in my previous ranking of Torrential Gearhulk for the jank factor, but I think it will only get better in Standard as new sets come out and we get better Instants to choose from since there aren't that many good options currently.
September 22, 2016 7:19 p.m.
I think in the long run the white one will become the most popular one as it can be really abused. But imo all are going to see a lot of play and seem really good
September 22, 2016 7:47 p.m.
As far as Standard, I think Combustible Gearhulk narrowly beats out Verdurous Gearhulk, and the other three are interchangeable when talking "all on their own" power. The reason I say that is that Combustible is the only one that asks the least out of a deck and doesn't worry as much about what the opponent is doing. All it asks for deck construction is "Does this deck want/need a 6 CMC creature?" Even if they take it off the battlefield, the ability is for real, and you don't need any other cards anywhere except the library to make it work.
Verdurous doesn't ask much more (it definitely wants to be in a deck with a lot of creatures, though), but it's the most vulnerable to removal. 8 power ends a game real quick, though, and they can't just throw a token (or two in the case of Noxious) in front of it to buy time for their removal spell.
The rest of them ask for something. It isn't necessarily much, but it's non-zero. That doesn't make them bad, it just makes them slightly more narrow. It means that there are more times where it either get's cast for "just a body" or rots while you try to manufacture a board state.
As to their presence in other formats, unlikely. Their CMC is going to keep them down, and when that isn't an issue because you are cheating creature out, the competition is pretty fierce.
September 22, 2016 8:21 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #15
The R/W/U ones will all see play in commander.
September 22, 2016 11:07 p.m.
I've been doing some standard testing and logged in a good 10-15 hours and I think with the current sets Combustible Gearhulk is THE best of the gearhulks by far. It synergizes perfectly with delerium and Emrakul decks giving value no matter how you look at it. People are looking at your opponents choices as being pro and con but really it's just con and con. Tell me if you're playing against a graveyard based Emrakul deck what do you choose? Let me mill three and get delerium online while risk taking 13 damage from the sleeping Titan OR do I let them draw three and get cards that'll dig for said Titan and what ever other emerge creatures they need. It literally gives your opponents lose lose choices.
Second I have to choose torrential gearhulk because it's honestly just ridiculous it's the instant speed half of snapcaster Mage on a 5/6 body.
Third and fourth are interchangably green and white gear hulk simply because depending on the scenario they lose to each other? Green comes down first in a token deck? Ok he's a 4/4 facing down a 4/5. Cast down your white gear hulk on the play? Turn 5 meet the 8/8 trampler. They lose to eachother in a stale mate but will keep the meta reactive and adaptive.
Noxious gearhulk is the least attractive of he bunch. Unless aggro burn decks become prevalent in standard that life gain isn't going to mean much in a world of decks topped with 13/13 flying tramplers and 10/10 milling indestructible and other giant stupid threats. It's a midrange world and he just is out of place.
September 22, 2016 11:12 p.m.
But Noxious Gearhulk isn't about the lifegain. You don't play it because you need life, you play it because it takes care of stuff like the aforementioned 13/13 flying trampler while simultaneously putting a big body on the field. And that's exactly what midrange decks like to do.
September 23, 2016 9:35 a.m.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #18
Agreed. Noxious Gearhulk is about removing a threat and getting a body. The lifegain is just icing on the cake. It's like hardcasting a Shriekmaw except you also get some life out of the deal (not to mention a bigger body, and less targetting restrictions, for all of an extra ).
September 23, 2016 2:13 p.m.
Combustible doesn't seem especially good because these kinds of card advantage in red are way worse than people make it out to be. Besides, you should probably be dead by then if you want to hardcast a six-drop. They're just fine with you casting it as they ult their Liliana.
September 23, 2016 2:19 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #20
I'm expecting Temur emerge to pick up the red gearhulk and run with it
When I play Gearhulk, do you possibly make me mill emrakul+elder deep squid? If you do have a fun time dying. In that shell he always reads "draw 3" because they aren't going to fuel your delirium and risk you flipping an emrakul.
Then they can elder deep for UU in response to you killing the gearhulk
September 23, 2016 3:14 p.m. Edited.
Each time I played the Red one in prerelease today it went off.
Each time they chose for me to discard the cards, resulting in 5 points of damage on both occasions.
September 23, 2016 9:25 p.m.
Temurge is losing Pilgrimage and Vegetation though. The deck would have to shift to a lower curve because it just lost all ramp except Grafstone.
September 24, 2016 3:10 a.m.
I got the white Gearhulk in prerelease and faced the black one once:
1) White:
- when you're behind it can bring you back. Maybe.
- When you're ahead you either won't cast it or it won't do much for you. This Gearhulk just doesn't cut it. Definitely worst one of the bunch.
2) Black:
- very good. When you're ahead kills a defender
- When you're behind kills their best creature + gains you life.
Lukecifer says... #2
I see others playing with combustible more than any other gearhulk... the green one is sadly the weakest IMO and the strongest IMO is cataclysmic
September 22, 2016 3:32 p.m.