How bad is a commander for it to not be worth running?
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Nov. 24, 2018, 12:32 a.m. by Loa_Wolfe
I've been thinking about some commanders that may be underrated or just aren't played much. I know a lot of the legendary creatures that don't see play are bad, as in really bad. Cards like Shimatsu the Bloodcloaked and Ur-Drago don't see play for a reason. So I have two questions to ask: Which commanders are so bad that wouldn't see any play no matter what (basically, what's the floor for a legendary to never see use) and what are some good/okay commanders that are underrated?
I've thought about commanders such as Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle or Tariel, Reckoner of Souls to make decks because I never see them and I'm hoping to find more ideas.
A while ago, I was testing my deck building abilities so I had my friends send me random commanders and I would build a deck around them, proxy it out (who has money to actually buy cards for shenanigans like this?) And play them. It started out as I expected, "here's my favorite legend, build it" "this card was spoiled today, build it" but as I continued to meet their challenges, they began upping the ante and started looking for commanders that are just plain bad, something you would never want to run in any deck, ever. Eventually someone named Sivitri Scarzam, and... well... I built a deck, sure. Sivitri was the commander, sure. I built the deck around everything she does, namely enter the battlefield (so the deck was full of etb triggers). Did I meet the requirements of building a sivitri deck even though the deck didn't much care if I ever cast her or not? Not sure. But I definitely think she's a bad commander as a 7 drop 6/4 vanilla creature
November 24, 2018 2:53 a.m.
SynergyBuild says... #4
Not bad enough... I think Why Every Commander is Competitive explains my point the best. If you are willing to drop the money for it, anything can be built hyper-competitively.
November 24, 2018 8:39 a.m.
Suns_Champion says... #5
One of commander's strengths is that you can build a deck with ANY commander and still have a chance to win at most tables. I echo the thoughts of the folks above, you can make a good deck with a bad commander.
That said, it's way more fun to choose commanders that, even if they aren't quite good, they at least do something. For example I built a ETB effect/clone/bounce/flicker Dragonlord Atarka deck and it's awesome: Atarka enemy now!. I also just built a Varchild, Betrayer of Kjeldor deck I Will Survive | Varchild EDH. Neither commander is particularly good, but they do a thing that I can build around.
Also, for the record, I play a lot of Boros. You can make decks with the bad colors too!
So your thoughts on Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle or Tariel, Reckoner of Souls could be awesome decks! Or Shimatsu the Bloodcloaked + a million token makers! If those commanders are interesting to you, build them! This of course depends highly on how cutthroat your meta is, but some good before-game and early-game politics can help even the playing field for you.
Again, the commander is only 1 of the 100 cards in the deck. It is great to have them do a thing because you get them every game, multiple times a game. So while you can make decks with vanilla legends, I wouldn't. Instead, make decks with commanders that do weird things. Good luck!
November 24, 2018 9:44 a.m. Edited.
Suns_Champion that's also one of the biggest problems I have with commander, I'm naturally just an indecisive person. For instance: I've been on and off of World of Warcraft since 2009, it's been 9 years and I still don't/can't play it because I can't decide on a class to play. Translating to commander I've been thinking about it for a couple months and have made little to no progress on deciding on my first.
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails could be a fun commander, but is it worth spending a fair bit of money on rather than Jori En, Ruin Diver, Feldon of the Third Path, Jodah, Archmage Eternal, Narset, Enlightened Master, Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle, Traxos, Scourge of Kroog or Emrakul, the Promised End? There's a lot of choices just for the commander because of abilities, color identity and even the art. I'm not sure how to shake this indecisiveness, the easy answer probably is to just say "screw it" and pick a commander at random and go with it but that's hard to convince myself to do.
November 24, 2018 12:43 p.m. Edited.
pizzagod13 says... #7
Basically I would say a commander is not worth running if there are other commanders that are objectively better.
By this I essentially mean that one of the commanders does everything better than the other.
However if the commanders merely do different things then both can be good, for example, Rhys the Redeemed vs. Trostani, Selesnya's Voice both do different things. Thus, both are good in their own ways.
Some commanders are just objectively bad.
November 24, 2018 12:50 p.m.
Suns_Champion says... #8
LoaTheWolf haha the irony! I have the same problem picking a career!
Two points: Don't spend money until you're sure you like the commander. Print out a proxie deck, playtest, make changes, playtest some more. I didn't do that for an expensive Narset deck I built and found out I hated that playstyle. I did do it for a Queen Marchesa deck, found out I wasn't into her, and saved $300. Always proxie.
Second, of the commanders you listed, do Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle. He's the most interesting and unique, and I won't get into the reasons I'm not a fan of all the others. Also, the art is great!
pizzagod13 while it's hard to find commanders who are objectively better than one another(they all do different things), there's something to be said for choosing a weaker commander. Fitting a new deck into your meta is very important, so you might want to choose strategies and power levels according to what your meta can handle. For example, I built a Narset deck that almost killed my meta and hated it, so I got rid of it for something less powerful. Even some objectively bad commanders can be fun.
November 24, 2018 4:06 p.m.
pizzagod13 says... #9
I guess what I meant wasn’t very clear which is entirely my fault. What I meant was that there are commanders that just do nothing and that should never be run as there is already another commander that does it better without being too OP/pricey.
It’s definitly hard to explain with words but something like Ur-Drago should never really be played as there are other commanders in those colors that shouldn’t break any playgroup. That is sort of what I meant.
November 24, 2018 4:46 p.m.
pizzagod13 says... #10
Also, I enjoy low power commanders, I think they can be very interesting. But, picking Ur-Drago over pretty much any other commander in those colors just seems silly to me. This is pretty much what I meant. Sorry about the double post!
November 24, 2018 4:51 p.m.
Suns_Champion I didn't mean to mention Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle in a way that I was considering it, I was using it as an example. I'd find commanders I like, look more into them and find other commanders that interest me which results in indecisiveness
November 24, 2018 5:16 p.m.
DrukenReaps says... #12
LoaTheWolf ultimately the only way you will get over the indecisiveness is to pick one and build it. I would proxie the deck if you will spending much more than $100 but you just need to put something together and play it.
It took me close to 10 years of playing commander before I finally settled on Divine Decree as a deck that I really wanted to put some money into. Then I found another to put some real effort into, Should I Pretend This Or That?. Before these decks I was just building $100-$250 dollar decks with maybe the occasional $300 but this is with a larger than average collection of cards.
It is hard to find that commander that really feels like you but it is even harder if you don't build and play decks. Again if you are going to build a bunch of things or just testing you should proxie. Just let people know you haven't settled on the deck you really want yet.
November 24, 2018 6:34 p.m.
DrukenReaps that's what I'll be trying to do soon, proxy. Well... that or make pauper decks or even start making my cube! Play them, play different playstyles to see what I most enjoy; tokens, aristocrats, landfall, etc.
November 24, 2018 11:51 p.m.
I think there is no commander enough bad to not play it (exept the ones you mentionned, but there are different)
I think there are just more effective (they have better impact in the game, or they provide a better deckbuilding) commander than others.
For example a commander like Zada, Hedron Grinder i don't think she's bad on its own but the deckbuilding will need some weak cards, some cards that without Zada, will be useless. Like Accelerate or Crimson Wisps
November 25, 2018 12:30 a.m.
The commander colors I'm most interested in right now is colorless. Just seems like it could be fun
November 25, 2018 4:03 a.m.
Doombeard1984 says... #16
With a colorless commander you are of course restricting yourself to wholly colorless spells. Artifacts, some instants etc, eldrazi and you will need lots of mana rocks. I looked into it when I built my eldrazi deck and decided a green commander (Azusa, Lost but Seeking) was a better option as I could ramp into those crazy cost eldrazi spells. Think best so far is Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger turn 4 off of decendants path. Totally agree as well with proxying and playtesting deck too, otherwise you can lose a fair chunk of cash.
November 25, 2018 6:10 a.m.
Doombeard1984 to be fair it isn't a loss of cash, just increasing collection value :)
DrukenReaps says... #2
Grothama, All-Devouring is pretty underrated. He has the potential to really work in favor of your opponents but since you built the deck around him you should be able to take better advantage of him. In His Belly is my own build, the card draw is enough that I need ways to recycle my graveyard into my library...
As for bad commanders I would say if you can find the ability on a more efficient or more resilient commander or if the ability doesn't come up in every game it is probably bad.
The only other commanders you might be able to say are bad are ones with downsides or ones with no abilities but Yargle, Glutton of Urborg is actually rather efficient and so makes for a fine voltron commander. Phage the Untouchable has a terrible downside but if you play around it you can kill target player... These do depend on your meta, a competitive table will obviously just say these are bad.
November 24, 2018 1:49 a.m.