ALL THE COUNTERS. Or as many as I can put on the battlefield before I win. Looking for help in making this deck as efficient as possible, all suggestions very welcome.
Here's what's happening:
Cloudfin Raptor - represents a flier that can grow to be huge with this build, great one drop.
Elvish Mystic - quicker ramp, like a possible turn 3 Prophet or Hydra, brings this deck into the speed that's required in standard.
Sylvan Caryatid - ramps, fixes my mana, and holds back aggro decks for a little bit. Golden.
Vorel of the Hull Clade - great for evolving the smaller guys and then can double the counters on them making them not so small. Great when paired up with...
Corpsejack Menace - double every counter put on a creature? That's all I can ask for, quadruple with 2 making the team up with Vorel insane.
Master Biomancer - gives everybody counters to be doubled, deadly when there are more then one in battle at the same time.
Nylea, God of the Hunt - gives everybody trample and can potentially come in as huge, indestructible body.
Fathom Mage - Gives this deck some card draw, which it most desperately needs if I hit lots of removal- which I will as that is really the only way to keep this deck on it's heels.
Kalonian Hydra - just look at it. Doubles the doubling doubled counters! O yeah, and on everybody (with counters)!
Garruk, Caller of Beasts - to keep my hand full of creatures, plus his ultimate is way too much.
Jace, Architect of Thought - Also to help me draw some cards and draw removal away from my other creatures on the board. The only one I own.
Simic Charm - mostly to make my creatures hexproof in defense of a kill/removal spell but also useful for getting rid of your opponents nonland threats.
It's hard to join a comment string when there have already been a huge line of people commenting on it and you don't want to take the time to read through them all and then hope your suggestion isn't a repeat.
SO here's a reset, looking for more fish, as in I want to hear some more comments or suggestions and I don't want to make you read through all the old stuff so here you go!
Thanks for checking out my deck!
+1 for the name. Biomenace was a boss on DOS.
Aww yes, counters. I've gone back and forth with this as most times I'm trying to keep my creatures alive, not so much keep my opponents from casting spells. Dissolve is great but what do you think about Spell Rupture as it uses my big creatures to my advantage and it's a little cheaper? Thanks for commenting, and I love Biomenace- it's brutal.
Spell Rupture is too situational. If you're getting your butt kicked where you NEED that clutch counterspell and your board is empty, Rupture is useless. You can carry Negate or Essence Scatter if you anticipate the matchups and which will be the bigger threat, but I find Syncopate is the most versatile spell, counters anything, and can be useful as early as T2, just like all of the above, especially against aggro decks since their main focus early is tapping out to throw out their creatures.
Rapid Hybridization could definitely find a place in the main board.
So far it seems like if I want to play a lot of creatures I also need to play a lot of counters. I don't think I'll need the extra removal because I can usually get my creatures out in time to do the removal for me. But I guess the problem is keeping those creatures in the game or getting them in to the game, which is where counters come in handy.
Simic is a very weak build in the current standard. It's weak in offense and easily crippled when controlled. It seems like the best ways to build B/U/G these days is either instant-speed like this deck and mix in some black for Abrupt Decay and maybe Golgari Charm and/or Far / Away , or build Golgari and splash blue for control elements.
Or just go off the thousands of MBD or MUD decks and splash in what you need.
...all this if you want to be competitive.
For FNM purposes, gimmicky synergy decks (no offense intended to this deck, I love these types of decks and I play them exclusively myself, as I am not competitive) are probably fine. Even still, the top decks in competitive are still dominating even my local FNM.
Yeah, you're right, it's not very competitive, but you are also right in these kinds of decks being more fun. And it is- Corpsejack Menace mixed with Evolve and Simic counters has been my dream since I became aware of such things. I mean check out the flavor text on Mystic Genesis <---- exactly what I'm talking about.
But really thanks a ton thewyzman for commenting on my deck so many times and constantly trying to help me out and make this deck better. It's appreciated!
Also if you did want to check out my more competitive build, which as far as I have seen is still pretty original, you can find it with this link: Stilts to Kilts
Yeah, I've read that text, I do love it, and it definitely fuels my interest in BUG, it's just unfortunate that Simic is so weak competitively, and Golgari is losing steam and getting almost no help from the next set.
You know thewyzman, I don't appreciate your pessimism about Simic =P (assuming you mean GU in general and not specifically Evolve). My biggest point of contention would be that it is "weak on offense;" any deck with Green creatures better not be weak on offense, and I honestly think that Simic has at least as much upside as any other guild in terms of sheer power, if not more. Because of that, as you said earlier Zicca21, removal and general counterspells aren't as necessary to Simic as most other midrange strategies since your guys will likely be bigger and badder as long as you can get them to stick.
If you want Simic, or any synergy-dependent build, to be competitive (I think I said this before but I can't remember), CARD ADVANTAGE is the key!!! Your opponent can easily Hero's Downfall
your important pieces, but they'll have a hard time coming up with kill spell after kill spell if you have ample draw power reloading your hand. Counterspells and other protection are nice to have here and there, but if you're waiting around to have mana open to play them or for Prophet of Kruphix
to show up, that's too slow and unreliable.
I don't mean to toot my own horn, but I want you to know that it is possible to make these kinds of decks competitive. Again, I might have posted this pre- comment reset but I can't remember; I have now made four Top 8's including two Top 4's, in fields of 40-60 people, with my competitive Simic deck My Prophet, Your Loss (Top 4 FNM). I honestly think the reason I have had success is due to the seven draw power engines, being Garruk, Caller of Beasts , Jace, Architect of Thought , and Prime Speaker Zegana . Due to their volume, I see at least one or two almost every game. Similarly, my pre-rotation Simic Elfhoof? Believe it (Top 4 FNM) had eight sources of hard-hitting draw power (Garruk, Caller of Beasts , Garruk, Primal Hunter , and Soul of the Harvest ) on top of Elvish Visionary and Civilized Scholar Flip for filtering out threats. Believe me, it's a formula that works. If you're drawing enough cards, all the kill spells in the world won't stop your deck.
Sorry, ChrisHansonBiomancin, I'm a disgruntled Simic player (evolve version, as you called it, although sometimes I do refer to it as simply the G/U guild). I don't really call G/U decks Simic if they're not at least loosely hinged on counters. I don't have any Kalonian Hydra and cannot afford one. Much like AEtherling , it's practically its own win-con in any deck. There is a guy at my FNM that beats me every game, every week with it (and believe me, I can't save a kill spell for it, else he'll kill me surely with something else; it's a $300+ MGD deck). I also do not have any Jace, or Garruk.
Beyond that, check out all my Simic decks, because none of them have brought me to any Top 8. The only Top 8 I've ever been in was with my Jarad's Yard dredge deck. My FNM is about 40% aggro (W, R, or G/R) decks and 30% control (U/W) and no Simic deck I've come up with has withstood any of it.
Now, /end rant/ ...
Speaking of card advantage, I do think Prime Speaker Zegana should have a place in this deck as she shines with lots of creatures and especially a Corpsejack Menace or two in play. Just make sure you don't bring her in with a CJM and a Hydra such that you draw yourself out! I doubt you have enough black for a Underworld Connections , but if you don't want creature-based draw, I've seen a simple Divination change games in control decks.
if you want card draw just put Bred for the Hunt in there. run it as like a 3x and you should get it most games.
Prime Speaker Zegana has been played in this build before but the problem was the amount of counters she would come in with. It isn't outrageous for a creature to come in as 16/16 and to try and put her on top of that she'll mill me out in no time! I put in Fathom Mage and we'll try that out as well as my Jace, Architect of Thought .
Thanks for be persistent in getting me to card draw, it will turn this game around. Bred for the Hunt is sometimes a little slow, and I like the creatures drawing me cards better then an enchantment. Because creatures are more consistent for me with Garruk, Caller of Beasts . But if I want another 3-drop, that may be in.
Bioshift is best when CJM is out and you're shifting counters (doubley) from a dying creature.. but you don't typically want your creatures dying..... or removing them to clear off a Fathom Mage or Renegade Krasis for continued evolutions.
Simic is hardly weak in power as i have completed turn 4-5 kills in standard with simic, and adding black only makes it stronger. I have actually using corpse jacks,master biomancer and a lucky progenitor mimic summoned 64/64 elvish mystics for 1 green mana. Also same deck i had to play online simply so i could figure out calculations because some of my creatures were ENTERING THE BATTLEFIELD at over 1000 power. I do think bug is stronger than simic , but how could it not be. You have green ramp, beastly creatures, and enchant removal, blue counters or simic evolve triggers, and black brings the third piece of evolve with corpse jack and mono black removal plus golgari has best removal in the game in form of golgari charm, putrefy, and abrupt decay. I love 3 color decks and play Jund , Simic, and Rug mostly, all of which I have used and better than 50%of the time beaten esper control, mono blue devotion, and Mono black devotion at FNM and even bigger tournaments. And I play at a store that has people who have both top 4d ptq's and grand prixs multiple times, and has people playing next pro tour event.
Please, kingperry314, do share this Simic and/or BUG deck that beats the best decks in the world. I would much love to see a deck in those formats that can compete in a pro tour event. I have yet to see one.
|Date added||8 months|
|Last updated||7 months|
This deck is Standard legal.
|Folders||Bro-zhov, decks, Love it, Decks, fun decks, Deck ideas, want, I have Standards, Possible Deck ideas|
|Top rank||#35 on 2014-01-28|