Nahiri's Wrath
Modern forum
Posted on Oct. 10, 2017, 10:43 a.m. by Xica
So since it cam out Nahiri's Wrath was always at the back of my mind.
And i recently stumbled upon some nice cards that compliment it perfectly
Ragged Veins
(with flash!),
Visions of Brutality
&
Spiteful Shadows
- all of which are a lot better than
Boros Reckoner
or
Spitemare
in this role.
Of course a short search later i quickly realized that i am not the first to come up with the idea.
And quickly found out, that no one made a serious attempt to make such a deck work.
So in my humble opinion the deck should be built up something like this:
6x Nahiri's Wrath (&
Kindle the Carnage
)
8x
Ragged Veins
&
Visions of Brutality
4x Faithless Looting
4x Cathartic Reunion (?)
4x Shriekmaw
And a lot of other high costed creatures, something like:
3x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4x
Tombstalker
(?)
and
Horror of the Broken Lands
Desert Cerodon
The problem of creatureless decks can be solved by Forbidden Orchard, and black has plenty of discard for the sideboard, to fight counterspells.
Does this idea seem viable?
Not viable. Sry about it, but:
You use a card, that requires you to have a pile of other cards in hand, just to discard them. If you chose cards with madness or flashback, you could play them even though they were discard. It does not seem like that's the cards you picked.
Second: spending 5 mana for an aura, plus Nahiri's Wrath, and a pile of cards, is vulnerable. A removal spell on the creature with the aura, and you end up perhaps sweeping the table, but certainly losing your hand. And you'll have to chose between table presence and cards to discard.
Even the usual discard spells aren't that great in this deck. If you spend your cards on fighting counterspells, you can't also spend them pumping up your Nahiri's Wrath.
All the red card draw doesn't really help either, as that is looting effects.
so, if it should be made to work, then I would guess that a rakdos midrangey madness deck would be the best home for your Nahiri's Wrath, and no need to bring any auras - just use it for removing several creatures with one card. Perhaps splash green for Life from the Loam to get some material for discarding.
October 10, 2017 11:35 a.m.
Visions of Brutality doesn't work that way... card says whenever creature deals damage, not when damage is dealt to it :(
October 10, 2017 12:42 p.m.
Polupus
Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
Then Spiteful Shadows have to make do in its place.
xyr0s, IlGuale
Spending at the opponent's end step, then spending on your own turn, is not even remotely as hard as paying - preferably when the opponent is tapped out.
If there is risk for the distruption of the combo by removal, then paying in a single turn can solve the situation, if you have the correct cards in hand.
As you Nahiri's Wrath targets multiple creatures, and you can play ragged veins in response to removal on a creature that is not targetd by said removal - as it has "flash", or at least it can be cast at instant speed.
Adding the tipical discard fodder like Squee, Goblin Nabob hinders the deck, as it needs card that have high nominal mana costs to win.
In terms of being fast, being able to win on turn 3 seems good enough for modern in my humble opinion.
I agree that counters would be the bane of this deck - and that targeted discard is a weak solution, since such low costed spells, reduce the damage from the combo.As plan B stuff like Boseiju, Who Shelters All, or Vexing Shusher could help.
October 10, 2017 1:09 p.m.
Polupus
Thx, however Death of a Thousand Stings is far from ideal.
i would prefer cards that beside having a high cmc do something useful, like cycling (to help dig for combo pieces), kill creatures played by the opponent or something similar.
So ideally they have an alternative cost, or have a cheaper secondary function.
Returning them to hand is less important, since the plan ideally would be to win by casting a single (and very big) Nahiri's Wrath, or at worst swing in with Tasigur, the Golden Fang/Tombstalker after the board is clear as a result of the previously mentioned sorcery.
And i have thrown a list together:
Nahiri's Veins
Modern
1 VIEW
October 10, 2017 1:39 p.m.
In case your deck is viable and wins a lot: Congratulations. It is not everyday a brew manages that.
But, on the subject of removal, it doesn't matter that you can play your auras at instant speed. What does matter is that most opponents are capable of removing a creature at instant speed, and will hold back their removal spell until you play an aura, or until you target the creature with Nahiri's Wrath. You could, of course, play Ragged Veins in response to the wrath, but then you need more mana. And your opponent could still wait until just before wrath resolves, before terminating their own creature.
I find it optimistic to believe in opponents that do not bring one or more of instant speed removal, 1 cmc discard, or counterspells (I guess there are some, but it would be some very fringe decks, that you do not see often). Therefore, you could splash white to play Silence or grand arbiter (althought the WW-cost makes it difficult).
October 10, 2017 2:16 p.m.
TheDuggernaught says... #9
I am personally not sure that Ragged Veins and Spiteful Shadows are better than Boros Reckoner. I might concede that they are better than Spitemare though. But a 3/3 body that can trade with pretty much any creature in modern is not too bad. The 3 toughness for 3 mana is kind of meh, but Lightning Bolt is not as heavily played as it used to be. It still dies to a revolted Fatal Push and of course Path to Exile -- but most things do. I think the big thing that separates Boros Reckoner from the enchantment options is that it can actually do things by itself. It is a usable card by itself and only gets better with set up; whereas those enchantments really do not do much unless you have set up.
That being said, I do like the idea. I, myself, have played a little bit with a version running for Swans of Bryn Argoll, and Nahiri, the Harbinger (along with Emrakul, the Aeons Torn as an alternate win that also combos well with Nahiri's Wrath). Pinging both Swans of Bryn Argoll and Boros Reckoner with a Pyroclasm or Volcanic Fallout to deal 4 dmg to an opposing creature, 2 dmg to all my opponent's other creatures, and then draw 2 cards is pretty nasty.
October 10, 2017 2:42 p.m. Edited.
Very cool brew +1 from me... I think Forbidden Orchard is pretty genius and I dig the heavy deck filtering capabilities... I think it can win and at very least totally blind side someone... As the deck stands idk exactly how consistent it will be/is but the concept of what you have here is pretty cheeky... I almost think Emrakul, the Aeons Torn would be good to get your yard back or just tack on 15 more damage?
October 10, 2017 3:01 p.m.
TheDuggernaught
In my opinion the following arguments can be made for the superiority of using enchantments:
1# Both Ragged Veins & Spiteful Shadows are on curve (t2), with Nahiri's Wrath on t3
2# If/when the opponent removes the creature that's enchanted they kill their own creature - which can be relevant against deck that play few creatures - instead of having the same removal in hand to harm our threats. Thus the enchantments act as a pseudo removal, and even in the worst case as a deterrent against blocking &attacking.
3# Ragged Veins has "flash". Thus it can be used to combo off when the opponent is tapped out.
(The Boros Reckoner may be a superior option compared to Spiteful Shadows)
I the end this deck should work very differently from skred, assault swans, and even from the various loam discard engines.
...am i the only one who thinks that Nahiri's Wrath would be so nice to play in UR breach, but there is just a better option in the deck for all the roles it could fulfill?
Icbrgr
The lists i mentioned checking tended to play some number of Emrakul, the Aeons Torn - in my humble opinion this is certainly a wrong decision, if you need the deck to be consistent.
The problem with emrakul is that it doesn't do anything beside having a large cmc.
(As protection from being milled out shouldn't be relevant)
Playing this fatty with Through the Breach makes the combo a 3 card combo. And that is very bad.
The deck's consistency comes from the fact that it has redundancy in both pieces of the combo, while (aside from a few spells that dig for cards) the rest of the deck is made up of high cmc cards. thus it functions like a 2 card combo instead of playing like a 3 card combo deck.
Preferably by ones that are not only there due their high cost.
They either cycle, can be casted for their delve cost, or can function as removal (for a reasonable cmc).
IlGuale says... #2
I don't think it will be fast or consistent enough to be competitive, but what can i suggest you is to try to maximize your damage with recurring cards like Squee, Goblin Nabob or cards with a really high CMC. You could also try the Madness way to get some value from the cards you want to discard. Something like this https://www.channelfireball.com/videos/modern-monday-mardu-madness/ like this
October 10, 2017 10:57 a.m.