Why is this so expensive? (Not about Tarmogoyf) Also; Why not so expensive?
General forum
Posted on March 5, 2013, 7:23 p.m. by Three-Left-Feet
I've been looking up some Legacy decks/cards out there, to see what's good and what's what in the world of MTG. And frankly, i'm still confused on a few cards, and would like some insight into why they cost as much as they do (combos they're in, instant wins, whatever makes them so expensive)
Lion's Eye Diamond (I know Belcher and Dredge, but still, $70 for a mass self-discard?)
Imperial Recruiter (That expensive for a Painter's Servant/Grindstone combo?)
And also, how are other cards not so expensive?
Lotus Petal is in almost EVERY 1-turn win deck and most Combo decks out there, not to mention it's immediate mana ramp. Tarmogoyf turn-1, already a 1/2, next turn Thoughtseize or Nameless Inversion to get him up to a 3/4. i would assume this card would be a LOT more expensive..
Goblin Welder is just amazing, he's mana-ramp (artifact lands, Lotus Petal), and a cheap way to get beefy creatures in. How does Myr Battlesphere turn 2 sound?
Green Sun's Zenith, i know it got banned in modern (and probably for good reason...), but the card is just soo good. Either Immediate mana Ramp in a Mana-Tight Format, or fetch a creature that solves problems (or creates them). Like Maverick.
Goblin Welder just doesn't fit well in the current meta for both legacy and vintage to justify a higher price at the moment. He was hovering around $20 back in 2005 or so, but took a dive when mud players went completely colorless. People also sideboard graveyard hate to deal with dredge, which also cripples Goblin Welder.
Green Sun's Zenith loses out to cards like Food Chain and Birthing Pod. If you're going to play a deck that ramps into creatures, you're better off with something that can be used over and over. But that's all pretty irrelevant when you can just play Reanimator, casting Entomb and Animate Dead on turn one.
March 5, 2013 8:07 p.m.
Three-Left-Feet says... #5
Well sure you can play Reanimator, but that falls under Grave-Hate too. Green Sun's Zenith is just a Birthing Pod that doesn't require sacrificing, and you don't need a creature with a specific mana cost to play it, Which i find rather useful honestly. And i believe that it beats Food Chain because you can play a card that's not in your hand. Plus it shuffles back into your hand, so even if you draw it again, you can look for a card that'll help you in the scenario. Like Tarmogoyf, or Mother of Runes or (if you play elves) Regal Force and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. The possibilities are just insane with this card, so i'm just curious as to why it's not worth more. You know?
However you do have a great point on Goblin Welder, and that fact that he WAS more expensive is enough for me. Haha.
March 5, 2013 9:59 p.m.
ChiefWannaHacka says... #6
I think the price cap on Green Sun's Zenith is because it only searches for Green creatures. If it worked like you thought cestdesconneries then it would be worth soooo much more probably.
March 5, 2013 10:32 p.m.
@cestdesconneries: The difference with reanimator, though, is it casts a first or second turn Griselbrand, allowing you to deal with graveyard hate if you don't win the game right there on the spot. What really gimps Goblin Welder is the summoning sickness.
I do see what you mean about the combos with Green Sun's Zenith. But if you've played a deck involving Food Chain, for example, you'd see how much faster it is. Before Goblin Recruiter was banned, a first turn win wasn't that hard using Food Chain. It's just that if you're going to play a deck that casts big creatures quickly or for free, Green Sun's Zenith just gets outclassed. Show and Tell makes it very "meh" by comparison.
March 5, 2013 10:50 p.m.
Three-Left-Feet says... #8
I feel stupid... I can't believe I didn't notice the "green creature" part of it....
But I did understand about why Show and Tell was banned, just because it's VERY possible to get a turn 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, which with a card like this in existence, I guess it just completely out shadows GSZ..
I can still see how reanimater is so good too, it's just I don't enjoy the deck being TOO easy to counter.. Maybe reanimater stands more of a chance than Dredge does against Grave-Hate, but I just hated the fact that I have a dredge that usually kills turn 3, sometimes 2, readily 5. But usually 3-4. And I went up some casual players for a bit, and after a while, everybody in my school just happened to main board 4 rest in peace and 4 tormonds crypt.. So as nice as turn 2 Griselbrand is, I'm mainly looking for something that can't be countered as easily.
I still need to playtest with Food Chain however... I usually use GSZ for my Elf Deck, so the switch off seems weird.. But I'm tring to go Maverick/Stoneblade, so I'm not sure how well exiling my creatures will do..
March 6, 2013 1:23 a.m.
Are you using the unholy Elf trio of Nettle Sentinel + Heritage Druid + Glimpse of Nature? It's stronger than Food Chain if you're playing Elves in Legacy. Here is a really strong build for the deck. Summoner's Pact is another reason Green Sun's Zenith isn't as good.
KBash says... #2
Lion's Eye Diamond, which as you've noted has seen competitive play, is also old as time and was printed at rare. It's scarcity is what drives its price.
Imperial Recruiter, similarly, is hard as shit to get because it was printed in a very-difficult-to-find set, and is useful in Aluren combo as well, which saw decent competitive play.
Lotus Petal is simple - it was printed at common, so a metric fuck-ton exist. It's price is pretty substantial for a common. Also the scenario you describe with Tarmogoyf is problematic in that playing in such a way generates ridiculous card disadvantage - Tarmogoyf is good because he's efficient as anything and doesn't need to be worked at to get huge, for the most part.
That's all I've got.
March 5, 2013 7:34 p.m.