My decks are "Too Fast"
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on April 10, 2016, 10:59 p.m. by Skybound
I play a lot of 
decks, and my favorite way to play, just in general, is explosive strategies. Even in my non-red decks, I like being able to drop as many cards as possible, and turn them sideways. That's just what I think is fun.
Typically, my game plan is to eliminate the 
or 
player in my playgroup, because their decks are based around trolling, and lockdown respectively. Both of their decks excel in the late game, with very little early game answers. So naturally, it is only fair for me to attack them when they are vulnerable, correct? If I have an opening, obviously I am going to move in before you get the chance to screw me over.
The problem is, they feel my decks are everything wrong with this game. The conflict is that I dislike most control or combo strategies. Of course I can't stand facing five copies of Perplexing Chimera while I'm running a burn deck. But they see my Quicksilver Amulet in my Atarka, World Render deck, and they freak the fuck out. Obviously I am going to run a card that makes my expensive cards easier to bring out.
I just feel that because I decide to play fast decks, that other people think I am the worst type of player.
Red player mentality over here saying that, yeah, people in ESPER colors are going to cry foul if they don't have early game answers to your speedy murder train. If you play more games with them they will either end up running things with the very singular purpose of slowing you down OR not play with you anymore.
EDH tends to attract your Johnny Combo and Control player more often than aggro, because it is seen as a "late game format."
April 10, 2016 11:17 p.m.
Tell them to man the fuck up and combo out on turn 4 like a real player.
April 10, 2016 11:46 p.m.
Dalektable says... #5
vault This is the best comment. I love this comment.
But seriously, they can man up. Run some control magic. Shove some board wipes in there. If they can't deal with your decks, then their decks arent good enough. If they just dont like what strategies you're running, boo hoo. People have different play preferences. Get over it.
April 10, 2016 11:49 p.m.
DeathChant17 says... #6
I myself prefer to combo things together for a win. My name shows I prefer Esper, I like to control, regulate, and prevent what my opponents can do.
That being said, I also love aggro. I love the straight forward go for the throat feel and the look of concern as my opponents watch their life points plummet.
I've reached the point where I've realized that everyone has their own preferences and may not love every point of the Magic star like me and straight up dislike certain strategies and complain at what I play. I certainly don't care. It's a game, I win some, I lose some, if needed I adjust to win more.
Personally, I like when I meet a deck that hoses mine. It gets me trying to play a certain strategy in an unorthodox way or let's me see how flexible my decks are. Wins pulled out of nowhere hold a special thrill.
I'm curious as to if these other players are friends you play with regularly or are just people up at a LGS?
I would say you are correct in taking out blue and white players 1st. It simply makes sense. You want to win, the smart thing to do is take down the player(s) who you see as the bigger threat. It's part of the game if they can't realize that, I make it a point to not play with them as I don't need someone crying at my table everytime they lose, or gloat with the win. I always try to compliment the other deck, win or lose, and if I have any ideas for improvement I offer them. Being gracious whatever the outcome is important to me.
If you got the need for speed, go with it. Fast or not, you are allowed to play the game the way you want.
April 10, 2016 11:52 p.m.
If you don't want to change how you play then don't. Just understand that commander players form cliques based off of what they like and this means alienating other players.
Other people have a right not to play with you regardless of their reason. (And please lets not even get into anti-discrimination laws here that's not what I'm talking about.)
My advice is to gold-fish your aggro decks at home and don't play them with that group very often. Keep bringing them with you to the store because sooner or later some other people will show up who like to play aggro. When you meet these people play with them instead of whoever you currently play with.
I only play my Zedruu the Greathearted deck about once every two months now but I love it to pieces. I will always treasure it. I don't force other people to have a bad time by guilt-tripping, pressuring, or convincing my way into other peoples games.
I used to agree with vault but now I've come to realize that people are there to play a game and why play if it's not fun?
April 11, 2016 1:24 a.m.
Steelspike says... #8
Personally, I hate playing against decks that prohibit the very social aspect and interaction that EDH is specifically geared towards. If I know you're playing a really fast/aggro deck (Kaalia of the Vast), or that you run an Iona, Shield of Emeria or a Void Winnower, you have earned my full attention, and will continue to have it until your deck is out of the game.
That being said, I do play against some very restrictive decks at my LGS, and it's made me a better player/builder.
There's nothing quite like the feeling of pulling out a deck and hearing a collective "Ah, shit!" when your friends recognize the sleeves.
Fuck 'em. Get better at building, or get better at hiding your tears.
April 11, 2016 1:26 a.m.
This is why I run 13 $100 decks instead of one ubber deck. Every play group defines "fun" differently.
If it were me wanting to play your style, I would first let Bobby awesomeness, King of the local playgroup guide the game fully according to his ticklewinkies. Then I would let everyone get the full impact of the sinking feeling of him always dominating the game, making sure to tell him how impressed I am by his pownage. Then I would run him down like a Ford pickup with a snow plow attachment and no headlights, making sure he knows to wear my fist in his face as it were a badge of honor because obviously I picked him and not the others because he's the best.
There is a time and a place for every edh.
April 11, 2016 1:41 a.m.
DeathChant17 I play basically strictly with a set playgroup. It's just a group of six people, including myself, with the occasional different line-up, I don't go to my LGS.
The players I play against are basically refuse to play flexibly, the deck prides itself on being completely random, but the deck refuses to drop one of his copious board wipes until he drops Avacyn, Angel of Hope (His commander). The rest are fairly new players or players not to interested in deck construction. They don't complain as much, though.
Steelspike I do get that sigh of disappointment whenever I pull out a deck. While I get that reaction most when I play , the thing is even when I run my one deck, it gets hated as well. BY THE ONE WHO PLAYS ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY
I hate how my group seems to think that they can play M:TG with the same mentality as solitaire.
I am glad to see people saying that there is nothing wrong with killing certain players first, because every time I single someone out, I get glances and comments saying that I am doing things wrong. It gets frusterating. I just want to cause a little chaos in the game. Sorry if I want to make things interesting. #venting
April 11, 2016 4:29 a.m.
buildingadeck says... #11
Honestly, it sounds like your playgroup is a bit too casual for the style of deck you're playing. For instance, the guy who won't play his sweepers. Scrub. Look, either you live or you die. Pick one. If you choose to die, then you can't bitch.
One of my best friends runs a Purphoros, God of the Forge tokens deck. I run Jori En, Ruin Diver Combo, which generally combos out between turns 7 and 11. This means that each of us has the other on a clock fairly evenly out of the gate. Of course, I don't have much resilience against creatures, so it is challenging in the 1v1, but that doesn't mean I won't play him. His deck is good, and I appreciate it.
At this point in my Magic-playing career, I have begun to realize the beauty in a number of different strategies. One has to play different strategies to learn to enjoy them for what they are. While I see where kengiczar is coming from, I think that your playgroup in general could work on being less narrow-minded. Maybe try doing nights in which each player rolls and whatever number he or she gets, that person plays the corresponding deck.
April 11, 2016 4:42 a.m.
ForgeCityGames says... #12
how quickly are you tending to kill people? and are you killing everyone, or just tunneling one person out of the game? because it can make a difference.
one of the big draws to EDH is that it allows you to play all of your favourite cards in a social setting. the 100-card highlander aspect decreases deck reliability to a point where you can get away with playing cards that cost more then 6 mana, that have super interesting effects on the way the game is played or on the current board state, but were unplayable in other formats because you were dead by then to super-reliable netdeck meta. (not saying netdeck meta is bad, just that theres a time/place/format for that stuff, and EDH kinda exists to fill the niche of formats that DONT play like that)
now if your EDH deck all boils down to interchangable peices that all combo with a general to drop someone reliably on turn 4 and you ARENT in a tryhard pod of people who get off on that, you are probably going to upset people. this isnt restricted to mono-red aggro, since noone likes being in the pod with that guy who runs the glistener elf combo since infect is 10 in EDH, and its not restricted to aggro since a lot of people have problems with Zur the Enchanter since he is allways "in hand" and will guarantee Stasis and lock the game down on turn 3, before most decks can boardwipe.
again, this is worst-case cenario since we dont yet know how "aggro" you go. i personally built an entire new Derevi, Empyrial Tactician wizard tribal pillowfort deck just to deal with the 3 or so decks at my LGS that killed people turn 5 with reliablity (Scion, Prosh, recently Ezuri). its win rate isnt great since i was careful not to make it overly oppressive, but if all goes well everyone has had multiple chances to play thier deck, including me, and even if i lose i feel like i contributed and interacted. that is what people dislike about properly built aggro. you cherry-pick your favourite 100 cards for a deck, slowly accrue them one card at a time, set aside a few hours for a good commander game, get the snacks/drinks in aaaand... boom you are out on turn 4 after dropping 4 land, now go sit somewhere else doing nothing while the rest of the game plays out without you.
gotta be careful here i feel this is almost getting ranty.
what im trying to say is that a lot of deciding how powerful to make an EDH deck comes down to judgement, but its judgement that should be made with the entire pod in mind. our LGS has a pretty good overall group of around 14-15 people who all enjoy the game, mostly because the people who can afford to power game don't even though they would enjoy it. they still build strong decks, they just wield them responsibly.
if you judge that your deck is fine, and your opponents are just being unreasonable, then maybe its time to find different opponents.
April 11, 2016 8:06 a.m.
CoreyMessman says... #13
I like to play creature decks as well. I had beautiful Olivia - vampire tribal. But there are 3 white decks in our meta (marath, Karametra bunker down and boros soldier deck)in our meta. So I had to sell Olivia because there is board sweep nearly every turn and artifact hate every 2nd turn.
I tried storm deck, they whined about infinite combos (no1 played counters, etc.). But marath guy plays Tooth and Nail kiki combo. But I was the bad one.
I build EDH grixis reanimator - Sedris later. Now i can finish in 1 turn or put some big nasty creatures fast. And they cry even more.
Conclusion:Tell them to suck it up or go home crying.
On the other hand it really sux to die first and have to wait till next round.
April 11, 2016 8:17 a.m.
hosshughes says... #14
I think everyone is missing one big aspect of why your playgroup is commenting the way they are on your decks...POLITICS!!! I am the blue player in a very competitive playgroup (and the most budget player to boot) so when someone breaks out Daretti, Prossh, Niv or the like, I'm going to call attention to it. I'm going to build up concensus that the person playing those decks need to be the focus of attention...that together we can unite and bring down the dastardly combo player! Meanwhile, I've earned myself a few extra turns to build up what I need.
Politics is a big part of the playstyle of slower decks. I know some might moan and complain about that but then you are no better than the moaners and complainers about your aggro decks.
April 11, 2016 9:16 a.m.
Do...do they not run boardwipes? Like, seriously, they're in Esper colors and if they don't have answers to Quicksilver Amulet, then they're just being dumb.
Show them no mercy until they learn to change.
April 11, 2016 9:24 a.m.
Your playgroup sounds like they are crying over not preparing for yor atrategy well enough or not understanding how to stop it. Don't change for them. Tell them that this game is about adapting to win, not the winner adapting to lose to the inferior decks.
April 11, 2016 10:04 a.m.
MindAblaze says... #17
Everyone here seems to be patting you on the back and saying it's their fault they can change.
I don't know what your deck looks like, but it sounds like you find yourself in a position where you have to aggro one person out at a time so they don't win. I'd be annoyed too if we were playing 75% (fewer tutors and less removal) and I got pounded in the face mercilessly until I was dead just because my three or four sweepers didn't come up.
I play Mayael the Anima so I know a bit about aggro in EDH. If I'm not beating them down bit by bit I'm not going to win, but EDH is a politics game too. Appeal to other players sense of the "good of the colony" and "largest threat" so it's not just you handing out the beating. But don't beat on people mercilessly and take all the fun out of the game for people because they couldn't defend themselves. The most amount of fun exists if everyone's having it.
April 11, 2016 10:37 a.m.
Megalomania says... #18
Skybound There's nothing wrong with you being that aggressive but there's also nothing wrong with guys who would rather have a more casual environment.
Also, if you attack the same guy every single game, don't you think that makes things seem a bit personal?
I try to avoid making people in my group feel unwanted so I decided to make a combo deck that kills everyone all at the same time. Everybody happy. Lol
April 11, 2016 11:03 a.m.
Dredge4life says... #19
I personally love combo/control decks. U is the only colour worth playing if the other cards in my deck don't function similarly. I have a friend who loves to play aggro, and won't even look at a controlish U card. Our decks just seem to balance out. I'm not going to tell you that you should tune your deck down, but I don't necessarily believe they should tune theirs up either. If you're at a point where you're playing much better than they are, then maybe it's time to start going to EDH night at your LGS. The way I see it, either you scale down, you find people with similarities in philosophy, or they scale up. But yes, they definitely should be running multiple sweepers.
April 11, 2016 4:10 p.m.
ForgeCityGames Typically I try to get them down before they can drop Cyclonic Rift or Iona, Shield of Emeria. I have different strategies for different decks, but typically this is what gains my attention the most.
MindAblaze If you'd like to see all of the decks I use IRL, they are on the side of my profile.I don't think there is a way to make everyone at my table happy, but If i divide my damage, there is a strong chance I will lose in the end.
Megalomania Every time I didn't play this way, I had to listen to "My cards are so great, people are so scared of my deck". If I water my decks down, I will have to listen to that again.
I don't understand why EDH specifically is so political. Any other format, and this would be accepted gamestate...
April 12, 2016 1:33 a.m.
Megalomania says... #21
Multiplayer games cannot be "not political". I think you'd be better of switching to Duel Commander.
You obviously dislike your group and some of them seem to dislike you as well. I'd just look for a different playgroup if I were you.
April 12, 2016 1:53 a.m.
ForgeCityGames says... #22
Skybound Cyclonic Rift is annoying, even speaking as someone who plays a lot of mid-lategame stuff, but as a goblin deck its little more then an annoyance.
Iona, Shield of Emeria is, i agree, a catch 22. you either ruin his fun by deleting him before he gets to play, or he takes away your ability to play.
I think you are caught in a fairly standard power creep cycle. where with such a small playerbase, the strongest deck will have a pretty insane win rate, especially in something like goblins where most of the goblins are completely interchangeable, and so the deck has what feels like no variance to opponents. hence they either are forced to spend money just to play with you with the hope of winning, and it will be difficult when doing that to not just become the next player in the cycle with the "best deck". I went through this myself before going to my LGS because only me and 2 friends played commander. I eventually stopped playing because as a fairly midrange-aggro (no infinites or early OTKs) Ghave, Guru of Spores deck i found myself being 2v1'ed by Thraximundar and The Mimeoplasm until thier Dmir-style lategame lockdown happened and one of them just won off a combo. Despite trying to up my game there was no happy mid-point where my deck was strong enough to survive that 2v1 situation without just going infinite super early allmost by accident (just ghave things), and i dont like infinites, especially as a consequence of power creep.
if going to your LGS isnt an option, and they wont play better and are trying to avoid just counterbuilding your deck until it becomes unplayable, then really your only option is i suppose to maybe switch the direction of your goblin-strength into something that kills them ALL instead of just dropping one guy instantly. maybe add some sac outlets like Phyrexian Altar, Ashnod's Altar or Altar of Dementia, so that you can use your goblins to fuel a huge flashy wincon rather then just beating people to death with any 10 of the 33 creatures in your deck.
its just an idea, and im not saying its a good one im just saying that given your situation im struggling to come up with any other solutions other then those mentioned.
Really cant think of how to fix the Iona player though. its 9 mana to cast that angel. if he cant fix you by 9 mana literally ANYONE could have killed him by that point. my derevi pillow fort deck could have melee'd him to death by 9 mana and none of my wizards have more power then 3 and thats Arcanis the Omnipotent. Sorry to tell you what you allready know but it really does look like its a problem with them and not so much you.
April 12, 2016 8:55 a.m.
Lots of good insight in response to this thread. I hold with those who suggest your opponents should adjust their strategy, especially the white player. If he refuses to boardwipe early, then he chooses not to use the tools he already has to save himself and should therefore lose.
If they expect you to dumb down your deck in order for them to win, respond by asking them to kindly take out Iona, Perplexing Chimera, and other cards that hose your deck. They don't seem to understand that you're also playing to win and having cards that shut you down is no fun either.
To offer my own anecdotal experience, we had a new guy join our EDH play group some years ago at my LGS. He was super nice, highly knowledgeable and used to play competitively. He also brought decks way above and beyond any of us were currently playing. All the rest of us adjusted instead of complaining and now we're all better players running better decks because of it. He definitely upped our game.
Unfortunately he moved away again a year or two ago. I donated a foil Khans Polluted Delta that our playgroup all signed to give to him as a parting gift. I hope he comes back one day.
April 13, 2016 9:29 a.m.
MirranTitan says... #24
Honestly, another lesson to be learned here is that you have to have a strategy when your opponents turns guys sideways. In U/W you have to look into cards that defend you better, teach them about removal I suppose? Path is a solid card, it doesn't sound like they have/know about.
What does aggro do when I play Sphinx's Revelation for 20? for 10?Hell, they even have day of judgment, and emergency evacuation. White has plenty of answers, if your answers are not removal, I suggest playing guys that are low on the curve, have an effect, and can block.
Like I play Knight of the White Orchid in commander, sure whatever, he's bad when it's t20, and I am ahead, but whatever, early game he blocks and gets a plains. That kind of thing.
I am all for everyone playing whatever they want, but your playgroup is playing the colors, and there are definitely things you can do to the aggro player to make him chill. Ghostly Prison and Propaganda are cards you might suggest.
Iona, Shield of Emeria is a touchy subject between me and my playgroup however, I would rather not talk about it. Lol
MindAblaze says... #2
When we learn to coexist with "the other," we live in peace.
April 10, 2016 11:05 p.m.