THE Modern Format Primer
Modern
SCORE: 477 | 657 COMMENTS | 55855 VIEWS | IN 213 FOLDERS
Update (Change 5) —Oct. 21, 2015
Decks Added: Grixis Control, Grixis Midrange
Edited: Delver to include new flavours
So..... What's the best way to beat living end? ChiefBell
As a blue deck one can counter living end, also land destruction is good, but permanent based grave hate is not good I don't think.
Also with a non blue deck, living end can be tough.
August 30, 2015 9:30 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #3
Hand disruption can remove their Cascade spells and they spend their first few turns cycling stuff so you can beat them down quickly and try to win before they go off. You can also let a bunch of your stuff die / discard a lot of your own stuff so their Living End helps you a lot too. Board wipes are also helpful. What deck do you play?
August 30, 2015 9:44 p.m.
I play jund. I agree that discarding their cascade spells is great but doesn't necessarily stop them. I went against a living end a couple weeks ago and lost pretty bad. I beat him down one time but I don't have Tarmogoyf yet.
August 30, 2015 10:45 p.m.
As a Living End player I can guarantee that grave hate is not the biggest threat when played in aggro/tempo/midrange decks. It's the only deck throughout the Format that can consistantly clear the board on turn 3, and that's how we deal with grave hate: continuously wipe the board until we hit enough lands to hardcast our fatties.
If the Living End player somehow manages to make it in the End Game, you're probably screwed. That's why our worst matchups are Control and Robots.
On one hand Control will never let the board wipe resolve (the worst of them all is Faerie.. gosh I hate that deck !!)
On the other hand Robots is just unbeatable if it lands an Arcbound Ravager and you don't have Faerie Macabre in hand.
Never had any problem with the other MatchUps, apart maybe from Merfolk which can really be tricky given the MainDeck Cursecatchers and Spell Pierces.
August 31, 2015 12:43 p.m.
As a jund player who has issues beating living end, what would you suggest to win vs them? Marenkai
September 1, 2015 10:58 p.m.
Jund and Abzan pretty much can't win against living end unless you get lucky with your Leyline of the Void AND you somehow get strong blockers out and incredible clutch removal. Living end is pretty much designed to prey on us midrange players because were ever so slightly too slow and our creatures are ever so slightly too small.
September 2, 2015 10:52 a.m.
@phaze08: Living End is a difficult MU for Jund if you try going the aggro way of playing your deck. I suggest you only keep hands with 1-2 discard spells (Inquisition is a bomb against Living End, as it can discard its Cascade spells) and maybe a threat to apply a clock (TasiGoyf) or to fill your own graveyard with creatures (liliana)
If the Living End player is under pressure (say, you have a medium Goyf on board), he will pull the Cascade Trigger earlier in order to stay alive and try to beat you down. So always keep some backup in hand (Goyf and Tasigur are the best for that as they can block Living End's creatures forever ! apart from the Spiders).
Remember, Living End may have 8 Cascade spells, but only 3 Living End throughout the deck, so if you can bolt its smaller creatures (Architects, Faerie, Fulminator) he will more likely pull the trigger again. Your biggest ennemies are the Faerie Macabre though, loosing your "Grave Advantage" is dangerous in this MU : no more creatures in the graveyard, means, no more blockers on your side of the board when Living End resolves.
September 2, 2015 11 a.m.
And like ChiefBell said, Living End is perfectly designed to mercilessly wreck Junk and Jund: all the creatures are the size of a big/medium goyf, no Abrupt decay targets, bolt proof creatures...
September 2, 2015 11:04 a.m.
Marenkai As there is some living end in my meta, I'm looking at devoting 1-3 slots for living end in sideboard (that hopefully double as hate for other decks) but I've found permanent based hate such as Leyline of the Void doesn't work well, so I have instant speed hate such as Rakdos Charm but if they resort to hard casting their fatties I can't keep up. Not that I don't have Tarmogoyf in my list yet, but are there any sideboard options you could suggest??
On a related note, some of this info could be updated in the living end section, as I feel there wasn't alot said about the LE deck and it's recently stole the modern championship so I assume lots of people will be looking for how to stop the deck.
September 2, 2015 11:09 a.m.
Permanent base hate is weak to Beast Within and remember that Living End plays 3-4 of them. But it doesn't mean that they can't win you the game !
You need to blow off their tempo by making them pull the trigger early, but you can also seek the moment when they're full tap (that's unlikely, but it happens) to use your hate cards.
Here a list for every color (except blue, because you know... Remand's a thing already...)
The best answers to Living End in White : Rest in Peace and the new one from Origins Hallowed Moonlight. If Living End becomes more popular due to the Worlds, that card will definitely see play in Whities SBs.
The best answers in black: Extirpate, Surgical Extraction (make them pull the trigger once, and you're done), Leyline of the Void (a weaker RiP)
The best answer in green: Scavenging Ooze (that snail's a friging pain in the *ss ! xD)
Universal hate (but the worst type imho): Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus
AND the ULTIMATE hate card against this deck is an artifact: Chalice of the Void at 0. That card is just nasty... When you don't expect it, it just ruins your entire deck... still have that bitter taste from my last PPTQ finals...
September 2, 2015 12:59 p.m.
Also, as a Jund player you should play 1-2 Fulminator Mage SB. Make the LE player miss a land drop is the best way to make them panic and pull the trigger VERY fast without much fuel backing it up.
Remember to play your discards smartly: if they reveal a land-poor hand, discard their cyclers !
September 2, 2015 1:06 p.m.
Ok so what you said matches up pretty well with what I've read about how to dismantle the deck so maybe what I've read is right. :D
Chalice of the Void seems good but playing Beast Within bait just seems bad to me Lol maybe I'm wrong. I may get a chalice if I can find other matchups it's good against.
September 2, 2015 8:05 p.m.
Chalice is only very good agaisnt Living End since you cast it for 0.
Any other deck will make you put 1-2 counters on it. Which will blow up your curve (maybe Bogles).
September 3, 2015 1:54 a.m.
Dismember is notable in that its usable in any colour.
September 6, 2015 5:01 p.m.
Well, as foolish as it may be to volunteer this info, Chalice of the Void could ruin my day.
My decks aren't top tier or anything, but the mana curves show huge spikes at 1 and 2 cmc.
I think chalice could hurt / seriously mess with both delver and soul sisters.
September 6, 2015 5:46 p.m.
merrowMania says... #18
Some card interactions I think should be noted are Cavern of Souls vs Chalice of the Void and Blood Moon vs Dryad Arbor. Cavern allows you to power through your own chalices (just a cool deckbuilding trick for Merfolk or Goblins). Blood Moon makes Dryad Arbor a 1/1 mountain creature. It's something many people do not know.
September 13, 2015 8:57 p.m. Edited.
merrowMania says... #19
Oh, also Pithing Needle vs Splinter Twin. You need to name the creature (Exarch, Pestermite, Krasis).
September 18, 2015 3:16 p.m.
Thought you should know the links for the G/W aura's primer deck and its creator Xzzane are not formatted correctly.
September 19, 2015 11:07 p.m.
That would be because the deck does not exist as of yet haha. It's one of the many things that needs to be added, but I just don't have the time, nor to be entirely honest, all of the knowledge necessary to write a comprehensive primer on bogles/hexproof auras.
September 19, 2015 11:17 p.m.
GoblinBushwacker says... #22
would the the deck lantern control be worthy enough to have a slot in the top decks section?
September 24, 2015 1:43 p.m.
GoblinBushwacker says... #25
Marenkai, lantern control is easily tier 2, possibly even tier 1.5 if the meta is right. It top 16 one GP, And then won another. If it's good enough to win a GP, it's good enough to be tier 2.
ChiefBell says... #1
The problem with any of those strategies is that you can try discarding and generally controlling the game but as soon as they hit 4 to 5 mana they'll just hardcast huge creatures and win anyway. This is evidenced by Living End in the world championships - it took like 4 of the top 20 slots even though almost all of the decks ran graveyard hate and control elements.
August 30, 2015 9:10 p.m.