ToolmasterOfBrainerd Creature - Super Saiyan Legend

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What do you need Thassa's Oracle for? Can't you use Aluren plus Cavern Harpy plus Ukkima to kill everyone?

Is it just me or are all of these kinda crap?

The Abzan one makes things with lots of keywords, but that's just not that exciting to me.

The Jeskai one gives free cycling, but aren't there better cycling commanders already?

The mardu one wants you to cast your Commander from the command zone a bunch. First, it's worse than Prossh. Second, it doesn't have access to green, which means paying for Commander tax will be hard.

The RUG one seems pretty good actually, but I think that Yidris is just better at doing that.

The BUG one builds around mutate, which is only in Ikoria. Its ability is a good way to mitigate the downsides of mutate, but the card pool to play with will be tiny.

Of course, I'm not good at casual playing. If people are excited for these and see exciting possibility where I don't, then spoiler hype! But man, these cards do nothing for me.

In some ways, I suppose it's okay that these are underwelming. Past commander deck commanders have been extremely pushed, and as a result the most popular commanders are from the precon decks. Getting a set that won't be as format-warping is okay. Besides, I am pretty sure they're putting enemy fetch lands in either this set or the next conspiracy/battlebond-like set. If this has fetchlands, then I don't care what else is in the set.

link to article previewing them

Interesting. What decks are better than Flash Hulk right now?

I currently play Aluren (with Thrasios + Tymna). Of course it's not the most competitive, but I like it and nobody plays cEDH around here anyway. But I'll be in a few different areas over the next few years and should have opportunities for proper games of cEDH.

I realized I was not far from having a Flash Hulk deck, so I'm thinking about picking up what I need and playing Flash Hulk. This would free up pieces from Aluren to trade or sell. If Flash gets banned I'll need something else to play, and don't want to go back to Aluren. I've found Bloom Tender + Freed from the Real combos to be pretty effective, so I'm thinking about a list like this.

I'm mostly making this decklist to know what cards I need to hang on to and what cards I currently have that I can trade or sell.

My budget restrictions right now are Gilded Drake, Dark Confidant, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Mana Drain, and Mana Crypt. I don't have many rainbow lands at the moment because I'm waiting for reprints.

Are there any online places with 4 player cEDH tournament results where I can actually see what the top decks are? I know of the tappedout EDH Tier List, but that's out of date and mostly opinion anyway.

Yes, creatures have become considerably more powerful since the start of the game, while many of the best spells are still from the start of the game.

But, legacy and vintage are still the havens for spells. Creature-based decks will always be slower than spell-based combinations. Thus, creature decks need to play creatures which also disrupt the opponent, like Thalia.

Winning the game in legacy and vintage is usually not about creature combat. Plenty of decks attack with creatures, but it's rare to see a creature block. Swords to Plowshares is widely played. Creatures like Wurmcoil Engine are kept in check because they're not too hard to counter or exile. It's also a long time before you can cast a wurmcoil engine.

In legacy there are a lot of decks like reanimator, storm, and sneak and show which can win the game consistently on turn 2 or 3. High-mana creatures can't be cast in time, and they certainly don't have enough time to kill a player.

If you plan on casting 6 mana creatures, I highly recommend 4 copies of Dark Ritual to cast them quicker. And if you want to interact with combo decks, Thoughtseize and Hymn to Tourach are your best bets. They can mess up the opponents plan enough that you can kill them before they can recover.

If you do want to play big creates in legacy or vintage, wurmcoil engine actually isn't very good. It's fine, but you don't want 4 copies. It's answered by the commonly played creature interaction. Even Jace, the Mind Sculptor can keep wurmcoil from doing anything. Grave Titan is better because it makes bodies as soon as it enters play, rather than after. Massacre Wurm is removal for dredge and shops decks in vintage or delver decks in legacy. You can also use your mana on planeswalkers like Liliana, Dreadhorde General.

Also, since you got a massacre wurm, you should look into mono-black reanimator in legacy. It's a sweet deck with a lot of flexibility in how it's built. If you pick the right threats, I think it could be a fairly nostalgic deck.

That explains a lot. The modern day legacy and vintage decks are very different from the ones back in the day.

If you haven't already, I'd look at some of the decklists at MTG goldfish or mtgtop8. Looking at those decks should give a decent idea of the power level of these decks. In vintage the big 3 decks are Artifacts with Mishra's Workshop, Dredge decks with Bazaar of Baghdad, and some blue deck held together by Force of Will.The exact versions of these decks vary drastically, especially among the blue decks, but almost every vintage deck plays one of those 3 cards, and sometimes multiple.

While those cards are expensive, there are a lot of very powerful cards which are affordable. Since you play white weenies, I recommend 4 copies of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. It is by far the most important creature card printed in recent history. It holds entire archetypes together across multiple formats.

I think Nether Void. Invoke Prejudice has a very difficult mana cost and creature spells do not define legacy or vintage. Mox Diamond is good, but it doesn't belong in every deck. I also do not feel comfortable advising someone on how to spend hundreds of dollars.

The thing with Legacy and Vintage is that rogue and casual decks tend to not fare very well. The established decks are so tuned and punishing.

Jalverastegui you seem like you've been playing for a long time. How often do you play in legacy or vintage tournaments?

Oh, that's a weird interaction! Makes sense though.

Veil of Summer?

Jalverastegui Depends. What kind of creatures are you playing? Do you have a good use for a bunch of green mana?

Cradle doesn't see much legacy play outside of Elves and Maverick, but it could still be a very potent piece of tech.

I've been seeing a lot of cEDH decks playing Finale of Devastation, but I do not quite understand why. It looks too mana-intensive to me.

In my deck I would use it to put combo piece creatures into play. These are Bloom Tender, Faeburrow Elder, Devoted Druid, and Recruiter of the Guard. And if the situation isn't right for any of those, then I'll put Spellseeker into play.

With Green Sun's Zenith, I can play a mana dork turn 1 and then GSZ for x=2 for Bloom Tender on turn 2. I like that curve a lot. With Finale I can't do this.

With Eladamri's Call, it's an instant. I can hold a counterspell and play this on an opponent's end step. And if I'm finding a 2 or 3 mana creature, I don't need the 4 or 5 mana all at once. I also like these properties.

Finale seems like the worst of both worlds. What kind of cEDH decks should be playing this card, and why?

Why is Finale of Devastation worth running? More than, say, Sylvan Tutor.