Should "Goodstuff" be a deck hub?
TappedOut forum
Posted on Dec. 18, 2016, 12:27 a.m. by PaladinRyan
Basically title. I was making a commander deck that I was describing as "Goodstuff" which is a pretty common term in my experience. I checked to see if there is a hub, there is not. Could be entirely wrong in thinking it deserves to be a hub but I figure it can't hurt to raise the question. Kind of hoping I am justified in thinking so though; that would make me 2/2 in suggesting hubs haha.
Epochalyptik says... #3
Speaking from my Commander experience, I've seen goodstuff used in reference to decks that just play good cards with no specific strategy to them. (For example, a Sultai deck including cards like Grave Titan, Wurmcoil Engine, Consecrated Sphinx, etc. and winning through combat damage over several turns, but not doing anything "special" or extraordinary in the process.)
I think it tends to be associated with the Timmy/battlecruiser style in that respect.
December 18, 2016 2:38 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #4
Honestly, I see no reason to not have it as a hub. Even further, a revamp of the hub base as well. A quick look at all of our hubs would show that perhaps a large portion of our player base would have no idea what some of them are, and I myself have no idea if they are still relevant.
Here's a list of hubs that I don't know, tribal hubs that I don't think are relevant beyond just "tribal", or hubs that got hit with the ban hammer/faded away.
- Aikido
- Amulet Bloom
- Angels
- Battlecruiser
- Birthing Pod
- Caw Blade
- Cruel Control
- Demons
- Force Feed
- Solar Flare
- Team America
- Wizards
December 18, 2016 5:14 a.m. Edited.
I have described decks in my match reports as "goodstuff" for the reason that Epochalyptik gave.
They have no other way of winning rather than playing all the strongest cards in their colour.
For that reason I think it would be a valid hub.
December 18, 2016 6:38 a.m.
I would love to see "Vehicles" added as a hub, but they might not be used much once we move past AEther Revolt.
December 18, 2016 6:40 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
Hub added.
Feel free to continue discussing this/other hubs. We don't give much attention to that portion of the site.
Our general philosophy has been to create hubs that will last long enough to be meaningful and to not require routine maintenance/cleanup.
December 18, 2016 12:44 p.m.
As far as cleaning up existing hubs goes, I think "Cruel Control" has become pretty worthless. Since most people don't know that it's supposed to refer to Cruel Ultimatum decks, it just gets used for any controlling deck that the creator thinks is kind of mean, which I'm not sure is a very useful criterion to search for decks by.
December 18, 2016 3:28 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #10
Agreed on the Cruel Control as of above. Something that I've seen myself.
Any deck which has also gone the way of bannings like Birthing Pod and Amulet Bloom should also disappear.
My reasoning for Wizards/Demons/Angels are that the amount of decks that are made for them are minimal, and there aren't a whole lot of tribal lords or respective cards for them worth making a deck beyond something that the tribal hub wouldn't solve.
Aikido really should be named something different so people understand that it means "to use your opponent's resources against them" in Bribery and Reverberate styles.
Caw Blade and Solar Flare were only standard decks. Team America is now Jeskai. Force Feed is not really possible without mana burn.
December 18, 2016 5:18 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #11
Blink/Flicker should be a hub, as there are many etb focused decks that do enjoy utilizing those types cards. A synergy hub might be worth while, to denote a powerful synergy between different cards that is not so much of a combo.
December 18, 2016 5:30 p.m.
Agree about Flicker. General Tazri has made that particularly pertinent.
Disagree about removing Angels and Demons.
Sure you could just use Tribal, but those can be some of the more popular tribes.
In EDH you have the Kaalia decks.
Standard has recently seen Angel decks.
December 18, 2016 5:43 p.m.
PaladinRyan says... #13
Sweet, 2 for 2 haha. Small thing I know but always nice to add or contribute something.
Flicker could be a valid hub too. It's a major mechanic in many decks and core to many archetypes or strategies and a pretty strong central them in itself (I mean look at Brago EDH and Ghostway was a cool deck too). I vote yes :D
December 18, 2016 5:45 p.m.
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician is another Commander who utilises Flicker.
Seems like there are enough examples for it to be a thing.
December 18, 2016 5:51 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #15
Another hub would be the Processor archetype. Utilizing the eldrazi process cards like Ulamog's Nullifier and Wasteland Strangler to generate advantage via exiling the graveyard and restricting most graveyard central mechanics.
While it was quite popular in Modern before OGW came out, it seems to have pittered down. It still is a potential archetype to use, and it may have more relevance now that Frontier is coming forth. Though this just may be me speaking as I quite enjoy the mechanic and use it frequently in both Modern and Frontier control decks.
December 18, 2016 6:01 p.m.
If we added that Hub could we call it Ingest Process?
Or do people tend not to use Ingest any more?
December 18, 2016 6:06 p.m.
Most decks using processors are eldrazi decks in Modern, and none of them use Ingest. Ingest was actually pretty garbage as a mechanic. I would vote to just label it as "Processor"
December 18, 2016 6:10 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #18
For me, "Goodstuff" and "Midrange" are interchangable. They're essentially the same. You have no clear aggro or control idea of the game, but just play all round good cards in your colours on most spots of the cruve, nothing too extreme. I don't think it's necessary, but I don't really think it hurts either.
December 18, 2016 7:33 p.m.
before we start suggesting several new hubs we should probably make sure they are of value. does adding this theoretical "processor" hub add enough value to justify it when there is already an "eldrazi" hub? personally i don't think so, but i may be wrong. below is a list of all the hubs for reference of anyone else that doesnt want to type out the whole list. below that is what i think of each one.
12-post
8-rack
affinity
aggro
aikido
allies
amulet bloom
angels
artifact
aura hexproof
battlecruiser
BG Golgari
BGW Abzan
Birthing Pod
Blue Moon
BR (Rakdos)
BRG (Jund)
Budget
BUG (Sultai)
Burn
Casual
Caw Blade
Collected Company
Colorless
Combo
Competitive
Control
Counters
Creatureless
Cruel Control
Death and Taxes
Delver
Demons
Devotion
Discard
Dragons
Dredge
Eldrazi
Elves
Enchantment
Energy
Exalted
Faeries
Five Color
Force Feed
Four Color
G/U (Simic)
Gifts Ungiven
Goblins
GoodStuff
Group Hug
Group Slug
GW (Sylesnia)
GWU (Bant)
Hate Bears
Hive Mind
Horde Magic
Humans
Infect
Infinite Combo
Jank
Knights
Land Destruction
Land Still
Life Gain
Living End
Loam
Maverick
Merfolk
Midrage
Mill
Mono-Black
Mono-Blue
Mono-Green
Mono-Red
Mono-White
Multiplayer
Necropotence
Net Deck
NSFW
Pauper
Pillow Fort
Pox
Primer
Ramp
RWB Mardu
Reanimater
Red Deck Wins
RG (Gruul)
RGW (Naya)
Rock
RUG (Temur)
RUW (Jeskai)
RW (Boros)
ScapeShift
Show and Tell
Slivers
Solar Flare
Soldiers
Soul Sisters
Spirits
Stax
StoneBlade
Storm
Suicide Black
SuperFriends
Team America
Tempo
Theme/Gimmick
Tokens
Tribal
Tron
Turbo Fog
Twin
U/B (Dimir)
U/B/R (Grixis)
U/R (Izzet)
Vampire
Vehicles
Voltron
Vorthos
W/B (Orzhov)
W/U (Azorius)
W/U/B (Esper)
Weenie
Werewolf
Wizards
Zombie
Zoo
My Opinions
Things I don't see any issue with:
12-post, 8-rack, affinity, aggro ,allies, angels, artifact, aura hexproof, battlecruiser (didn't know about this one before), BG (Golgari), BGW (Abzan), Blue Moon, BR (Rakdos), BRG (Jund), Budget, BUG (Sultai), Burn, Casual, Collected Company, Colorless, Combo, Competitive, Control, Counters, Creatureless, Death and Taxes, Delver, Devotion, Discard, Dredge, Eldrazi, Elves, Enchantment, Energy, Faeries, Five Color, Force Feed, Four Color, G/U (Simic), Gifts Ungiven, Goblins, GoodStuff, Group Hug, Group Slug, GW (Sylesnia), GWU (Bant), Hate Bears, Hive Mind, Humans, Infect (as a lifegain player this hub is stupid), Infinite Combo, Jank,Land Destruction, Land Still, Life Gain, Living End, Loam, Maverick, Merfolk, Midrage, Mill, Mono-Black, Mono-Blue, Mono-Green, Mono-Red, Mono-White, Multiplayer, Necropotence, Net Deck, Pauper, Pillow Fort, Pox, Primer, Ramp, RWB (Mardu), Reanimater, Red Deck Wins, RG (Gruul), RGW (Naya), RUG (Temur), RUW (Jeskai), RW (Boros), ScapeShift, Show and Tell, Slivers, Soldiers, Soul Sisters, Spirits, Stax, StoneBlade, Storm, Suicide Black, SuperFriends, Tempo, Theme/Gimmick, Tokens , Tribal, Tron, Turbo Fog, U/B (Dimir), U/B/R (Grixis), U/R (Izzet), Vampire, Vehicles, Voltron, W/B (Orzhov), W/U (Azorius), W/U/B (Esper), Weenie, Werewolf, Zombie, Zoo
Note i do think some of the dual/tri colored need renaming. some have slashes others don't. i just feel like they should all be the same.
Hubs i think need changing
aikido - I didn't know what this meant until it was explained above. i even have a few decks that could use this tag.
Horde Magic: i think this hub means that your deck is going wide and attacking with several creatures. this one might be personal preference but i don't think the name is great for this hub.
Hubs i think can go
Wizards - im not sure that this is popular or different enough to need a seperate
amulet bloom - deck has been nerfed out of existance as far as i'm aware.
Birthing Pod: banned from modern and from what i can tell, when it's played in legacy it's under NicFit. im not sure about legacy as much but it seems like this hub isn't necessary.
Caw Blade: not sure that this is still a thing. i mean people still play swords and the like, but i don't know many people playing the caw portion.
Cruel Control: for the same reasons mentioned above. its now for any deck the controller deems mean enough to call cruel. often times this means discard control.
Demons: while it's probably one of the more popular tribes i think this one is mostly just over used by people as a hub. when i went to deck search and used the demon hub, almost every non-edh deck had 3 or less demons. i mean it seems like it was reasonably used for edh, but i'm not sure how much is gained by having another tab like this instead of just tribal.
Dragons: Tribal should cover this.
Exalted: i don't believe that this deck type is as common as what is necessary for its own hub.
Knights: see dragons.
NSFW: why is this a thing? does this mean something else im not aware of?
Rock: Not sure if most people know what this is anymore
Solar Flare: i think this would just fall under esper control at this point.
Team America: should be covered by jeskai
Twin: banned out of existence essentially.
Vorthos: i don't think most people know this one really and i don't think its necessary given that we don't have any of the other types and have been fine.
December 19, 2016 12:01 a.m.
chaosumbreon87 says... #20
the rock is a fairly strong deck hence the name and the decks may have been banned temporarily but i am unsure if this is a permanent ban or a temporary one. So the removal for temporary bans makes little sense to me. Also i'm pretty sure horde magic is a different format entirely so i'm not sure if that's what you mean. also there's an NSFW hub? i'm building ayesha tanaka edh. This is so NSFW that its not safe for most judges. lastly, why are there different hubs for R/U/W decks then team america? also request that name be changed back to include raka.
December 19, 2016 12:14 a.m.
well rock from my understanding is legacy abzan. if theres something else that makes it particularly different that it deserves another hub, im open to hearing it.
i didn't realize it was another format. ignore my comments on it then.
as for Raka. pretty sure that they are going to stick with the newest iteration which is jeskai. as to why there are 2 different hubs, idk. my guess is that one used to mean a creature based one and the other one represented spell slinging style play. but thats entirely a guess.
December 19, 2016 1:17 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #22
Rock is not legacy abzan. Rock is BG midrange. There are finer points to it that I'm not entirely aware of however.
Exalted is a popular beginner player deck choice.
Dragons has actual permanent status now due to all the dragon central decks for EDH and casual thanks to KTK block.
Knights has a high number of lords and cards central around it. It is also a popular beginner player deck choice.
I'm retracting my previous comment about Wizards as Azami, Lady of Scrolls for EDH and older sets give plenty of wizard tribal lords and effects.
NSFW is something put in for measures due to not wanting to remove something just because it contains sexual content. This does not excuse being sexually offensive however.
Twin is still occasionally played by some in legacy and highlander and is still used to denote similar types of combos like Kiki-Jiki, which is still possible in modern.
Vorthos, many people do actually know about this, and there have been a few decks made just to tell a story. It is a player demographic that will never leave and will always be relevant. In this it shouldn't be removed as the players it applies to will always be present.
December 19, 2016 4:32 a.m.
I also think Vorthos should stay as it is very relevant for people who like to make decks that tell stories. Nothing else covers that.
Dragons is a VERY popular tribe. With cards like Dragonlord's Servant, Dragon Tempest, Descent of the Dragons, and Crucible of Fire it is very relevant.
In fact, someone in my EDH group just assembled a Dragon-themed deck the other day.
Without wanting to complicate things I noticed that we have no Hubs for four colour decks.
With the pre-con Commander decks released this year that might start to become relevant.
= Glint-Eye
= Dune or Dune-Brood
= Ink-Treader
= Witch or Witch-Maw
= Yore or Yore-Tiller
December 19, 2016 6:56 a.m.
"Processors" has better hope in frontier or standard than it ever will in modern. I tried playing many different variations of processor decks, but it comes down to the fact that Bant Eldrazi and Hatebears are just better.
December 19, 2016 7:12 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #25
Ever tried it in a control package Bovine073? It works far better, though the only good processor would end up being Ulamog's Nullifier. However, I haven't done extensive testing with esper processor control decks in the current meta, so I don't know how they will fair against infect. They did fine back during the junk meta.
I agree with Argeaux in that specific 4 colour hubs are now necessary. Not only because of the 4 colour commanders, but because 4 colour decks are very popular in frontier. I recommend just naming them, in the order of your list, Glint, Dune, Ink, Witch and Yore.
December 19, 2016 2:37 p.m.
I'd be happy with that.
How about a Hub called Unblockable?
That's one I've search for a couple of times in the past.
December 19, 2016 5:12 p.m.
Hey Epochalyptik could that Hub says Vehicles instead of Vehicle?
That is in keeping with the names of the other tribal Hubs.
December 19, 2016 5:34 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #28
I don't see why you would want a hub like that when certain archetypes already request that mechanic.
Also, you sentence good english not.
December 19, 2016 6:05 p.m.
Due to the fact that Vehicles are a different mechanic, not just Tribal.
You must not be familiar with a thing called "typo".
December 19, 2016 6:12 p.m.
Femme_Fatale errr, Wasteland Strangler sounds good in any processor build. Modern is not lacking good exile effects, it is lacking good processors. Nullifier, Strangler, and Blight Herder simply don't cut it (and most of the other ones are just complete rubbish).
December 19, 2016 11:36 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #31
Referring to your "unblockable" request Argeaux. And if you took a look at your first sentence in #27, you'll realize that it doesn't make much sense. Should say "Could the Vehicle hub say Vehicles instead?"
chaosumbreon87 says... #2
I dont want to break your streak but im pretty sure goodstuff was a coined term for playing value, which is how most (no, not all) decks are created. Saying your playing goodstuff, or value cards does not give any description of the deck. Decks like NicFit, Stax, Aggro, and Midrange all describe what the deck wants to do, unlike goodstuff. While I concede that the term has been accepted for generating more value out of playing a card, or 2 for 1-ing the opponent, gives no real insight. Hope I communicated that well enough. Up for discussion. Thoughts/arguements welcome.
December 18, 2016 1:58 a.m.