Two words. Simic. charm.
Deck Help forum
Posted on March 23, 2014, 10:16 p.m. by Spootyone
Here is my deck that I will be referring to:
Primordial Soup | Bant Mega-Ramp Playtest
Standard*
SCORE: 64 | 5 COMMENTS | 7233 VIEWSAlright. Kiora's Follower has been an awesome card and all, but I've found it to be far too fragile for my liking in this standard meta, so I'm in need of a replacement. I like using off-the-wall cards and so some of my thought's for replacements were Blustersquall and Inaction Injunction .
But then I remembered about Simic Keyrune .
Don't just say no immediately. Just hear me out. It acts much like Mutavault does by being a repeatable source of damage that survives a Supreme Verdict . But it also doesn't die to Doom Blade , Hero's Downfall , Last Breath , etc. It can't be targeted by Azorius Charm or Detention Sphere or any burn spells. It has 3 toughness (as opposed to 2), so battles with Courser of Kruphix or Ash Zealot or anything else that could trade with Mutavault (including Mutavault !) doesn't kill it. And if all else fails, it's just additional ramp for me!
I think I've already made my decision, but I wanted your all's help and opinions on this. Keep in mind I'm referring to my deck in particular.
Thank you.
I like the idea of mana rocks like Chromatic Lantern but the hexproof simic keyrune may be even better suited for your needs, especially if your only running 2 colors. I like that with its 2/3 crab body it can kill Mutavault by blocking it.
March 23, 2014 10:21 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #4
If it didn't have hexproof, I'd say no. But we have a fairly removal-heavy Standard right now, and I think hexproof makes it good enough to replace the Follower.
March 23, 2014 10:26 p.m.
I'm honestly just shocked to see Sylvan Primordial in a deck without Garruk, Caller of Beasts . sigh
For ramp, I prefer Into the Wilds over Simic Keyrune. The mana advantage you gain from Into the Wilds lasts even if Into the Wilds is removed from the field. That's not the case with Simic Keyrune. Sides, on turn 3, you should be casting a Detention Sphere or a Courser of Kruphix. They're just better turn 3 plays.
March 23, 2014 10:27 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #6
Into the Wilds isn't reliable or immediate ramp, though, and that's something that this deck really utilizes.
I personally like the keyrune here. however, Kiora's Follower untaps nykthos. Not sure why you don't want that. Also, you're not running Nykthos. Why not?
March 23, 2014 10:39 p.m.
@ThatBlueMage ~ becaue he doesnt need it. If I recall correctly he did have it in at one point but commented that it was not doing enough for him so he dropped it.
@Spootyone ~ my only concern is constantly having to turn it into a creature. So here's my logic~ bare in mind that I have not been standard oriented for a few months. I can imagine that there is a lot of artifact/enchant hate floating around what with the gods and all that. So if someone tries to remove your keyrune you'll have to spend mana to make it a creature and thus give it hexproof.
Might be a little paranoid on my part but I wanted to at least voice the concern.
March 23, 2014 10:52 p.m.
Into the Wilds with Kiora, the Crashing Wave and Courser of Kruphix can ramp like crazy.
March 23, 2014 11:25 p.m.
notamardybum says... #9
Rakdos has been using the keyrune with a lot of success. I personally enjoy using them
March 23, 2014 11:32 p.m.
Behgz: I really like that it would just kill vault in battle. That seems like a big upside to me.
GoldGhost012: I think that the current meta is begging for hexproof things to be played. With Devour Flesh as one of the only answers being played to hexproof, it feels super safe to be attacking with it against control.
-Logician: Lol well I tried out Garruk, but the deck simply isn't build for him. I think my creature count is currently at or close to 17. That's just not good enough for him to be amazing.
Okay, so Into the Wilds . I never played with it or tested with it. I think that (unlike most people I feel) it actually is a very good cad. Now, is it good for me in my deck? I would have to say no -- but only because it isn't fast enough or reliable enough like ThatBlueMage said. Now, keyrune does at least provide that ramp immediately (even if it would rarely be utilized then). I can agree that Courser of Kruphix is probably the better play at that point in the game, but the situation I'm describing that this card would be useful would be against a control deck. And I think that this card provides me benefits against that matchup in ways similar to Mutavault without the downsides of it and with a decent couple upsides.
ThatBlueMage: I will address the nykthos thing in a second haha
Bellock86: There definitely is a good amount of enchantment hate around, and that typically also translates to artifact hate as well. So, two situations may arise. The first is that they have the spell and I don't have the mana to turn my keyrune into a guy. That's a 1-for-1. It sucks, but it's not back-breaking by any means. And it does require them to have something that they might not even have against my deck.
the second thing that could happen is that I do have the mana. It would basically be a 2-mana counterspell in that regard, and that's totally feasible. If they have another spell in response? Well in that case I either 2 for 1 them or just resond by paying the mana again (assuming its available). I'm okay with either of those happening to be honest. If they're worrying too much about my silly crab dude I can easily be stomping on them with a Sylvan Primordial or be ultimating a Kiora.
March 23, 2014 11:58 p.m.
notamardybum says... #11
I've actually been debating whether I should take a land out of my esper deck and put in a keyrune, the problem is I don't even know which keyrune
March 24, 2014 midnight
Okay let me see if I can quickly address the Nykthos question well.
In my deck, I can play T1 Elvish Mystic
into T2 Courser of Kruphix
. This is my earliest set of plays to get me to the devotion threshold that makes Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
break even. From there, I can play more cards to increase my devotion further, potentially ramping me an additional 1-3 mana. Now what do I do with this mana? Very little, considering I've already played all my cards that needed the mana in the first place. Nykthos doesn't allow for a T3-4 Arbor Colossus
on it's own, and I have mana creatures that can do that easily.
I could help Nykthos by playing something like Burning-Tree Emissary . But this then requires a perfect curve-out before I'm even getting anywhere more than I'd have with just normal mana dorks. That is a bit too fragile for me to run a colorless land in this deck since having the colored mana early is so incredibly important. And the ceiling for nykthos in this deck isn't really that much higher than things would be normally since I'm not playing Garruk, Caller of Beasts and tons of creatures to refuel my hand every turn like early G devotion decks did.
All in all I think Nykthos is a great card when built around, but my deck simply isn't built around it to utilize it the way it would be worth playing.
March 24, 2014 12:06 a.m.
notamardybum: Well, the azorius one has flying and the dimir one has unblockable. The orzhov one seems weird for control but I guess it blocks Mutavault all day is you want that.
March 24, 2014 12:08 a.m.
Spootyone ~ you make a very good point. 1for 1 as you stated is rough but it gets rid of an "issue card". 2 for 1ing them is even better and again as you stated if they are worrying about your crab guy then they have bigger issues than a keyrune. Lol. I say test and see what happens. It's not like it's set in stone.
March 24, 2014 12:08 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #15
I'll add my input on Into the Wilds - it is not a very effective Standard card. It's great in EDH, I've never been unhappy to draw it, but I doubt that it was created for Standard. It's slow, and needs to be faster to be more mana-effecient. I think it would see more play if it was more like Elfhame Sanctuary .
March 24, 2014 12:15 a.m.
Quadsimotto says... #16
I have one question. Why can this not be D-sphere'd? it is a non land permanent and chances are if you have already activated it and swung during you may not have the mana to activate it again. If you do..cool i see no problem. But if you dont to the sphere it goes. I like the idea of having it as ramp that cannot be targeted with doomblade or downfall. Being hexproof with a toughness of three is huge bonus when activated and it seems to be a solid choice.
March 24, 2014 12:40 a.m.
@Quadsimotto not sure if I'd waste a D'sphere on a mana rock like Simic Keyrune unless I was literally down to 2 life and dead to a 2/3 crab coming into the red zone on my opponents next turn, but hey, it's your trigger on the stack when you resolve the D-sphere so go right ahead.
Basically, saying it 'dies' to a Detention Sphere is really a moot point, as you just coaxed your opponent into blowing a D-sphere on a crab...
March 24, 2014 3:39 a.m.
Quadsimotto says... #18
@Behgz I never said i would use a D-sphere on it I was only pointing out that it could. :O
March 24, 2014 4:09 a.m.
I'm not sure whether this fits your build, but you could also try Gyre Sage .
March 24, 2014 5:29 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #20
The keyrune is too slow and derpy. Sylvan Caryatid is your girl, it does everything you need from your 2 drop in this deck.
March 24, 2014 9:19 a.m.
Basically, "cant be d-sphered" was just another way of me saying "it can have hexproof." It definitely has more chance of that occurring than any other of the things I mentioned, but it can be responded to. So theres at least that. Though I would have to agree that a person using one of their only spheres on my mana rock makes me feel really happy to play a sylvan primordial.
"Oh yeah. The sphere you just wasted? Yeah, I found a way to make you regret that decision even further." Hahaha"
Gyre Sage has never been quick enough for me. Im not sure when and where I was supposed to be using it but ive attempted to put it in so many decks to no avail :/ its sad, really.
And, yeah, Sylvan Caryatid is totally in and such an all-star. I couldn't play the deck without her! Shes so good! :o
March 24, 2014 2:21 p.m.
Assuming you have the mana, can't you just make the Simic Keyrune
Hexproof in response the to Detention Sphere
being cast?
March 24, 2014 3:07 p.m.
@yad The example provided implied they would acitivate and swing for 2, then on the opponents turn they cast d-sphere and there isnt enough mana up to activate again, in the example he was pointing out..
March 24, 2014 3:40 p.m.
yad: If the mana was available, yes. Though, even if it were not I'd probably b etotally okay with my opponent d-sphere-ing my 3-drop mana rock. And I can drop a Sylvan Primordial later on to blow that sphere up in any case. :D
March 24, 2014 4:01 p.m.
Airing on the side of value, I'd let them keep the Detention Sphere that took your mana rock Spootyone and instead blow up their Mutavault with Sylvan Primordial XD
Spootyone says... #2
Um...ignore the title. I meant Simic Keyrune ...
March 23, 2014 10:19 p.m.