Thiopental (Brigdeless 7-Rack Quandary)

Legacy 8-Rack Control Discard Enchantment Midrange Mono-Black

Busse Score: 178


Upvotes are welcome and I will sacrifice an onion to honor those who give their +1s! Remember to write a comment, so I can correctly perform the ritual in your name! Of course, any suggestion and constructive opinion is taken into account, reviewed and appreciated. Cheers!


Perfect Strategy:

Card Explanations:

  • Blackmail: A card deceptively useful, very handy in this dedicated deck. The opponent shouldn't have usually more than 3 or 4 cards in hand, so this hits everything, including lands. When everything has to be discarded it doesn't matter whether they hide something or not.
  • Hymn to Tourach: Because Wrench Mind is "Meh", let's go Legacy singing some Hymns! This card is nuts, and Turn 2 Hymn does a lot of damage thanks to the random factor. For added fun, make the opponent shuffle his/her hand and choose the cards him/herself.
  • Inquisition of Kozilek: Nobody expects the spanish inquisition! The poor-man's-Thoughtseize, more useful in early game than in late game, is still better than Despise and Duress, I believe.
  • Leechridden Swamp: Damage dealer for the late game, when you have lots of mana and few things to do with it. When the game stalls, this card shines along The Rack.
  • Nyxathid: A heavy hitter for just 3 mana is too good not to include. At its potential 7/7 this can easily swing a couple of times and finish the game, or it can endure a couple of hits in the rare event that the opponent managed to cast something bigger than a Llanowar Elves.
  • Painful Quandary: Finisher. Puts the opponent under lockdown, giving you time to plan and hit through combat damage and the enchantments.
  • Raven's Crime: An elegant discard card that uses those spare lands that fill your hand in the late game. You can't choose the card being discarded... no, you can't, but when the opponent's hand is falling apart like leaves in autumn... choosing is not a priority. Best played in Turn 3, after an Inquisition of Kozilek and a Hymn to Tourach.
  • Sewer Nemesis: One of the latest additions and, in my personal opinion, a ruthlessly efficient creature. You could even cast this on yourself and still make it a 10/10 or so. Also, this is much better than a Hypnotic Specter given the added support of the discard sorceries.
  • Shrieking Affliction: A Neo-Rack that, in a dedicated deck, works better than the former. In combination with Painful Quandary, the Affliction will pin down any opponent and force him to not playing a card or lose between 5 and 8 life, considering he/she has only 1 or 2 cards in hand.
  • Sign in Blood: Draw engine that will, for the price of 2 life, keep the opponent on it's toes. Just when your hand seemed empty... BOOM, 2 new threats. Used best in Turns 4-5.
  • The Rack: A staple in this kind of deck, well supported by Shrieking Affliction this card is Game Over if your opponent can't top-deck an anti-artifact card within the first 7 Turns.
  • Victim of Night: This hits more creatures than Doom Blade and Go for the Throat (also there are some Wurmcoil Engines and Steel Hellkites in my playgroup), so it's my first choice. Also the is not a downside in this deck.

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Trexzilla says... #1

Would pack rat be decent in this?

October 25, 2015 10:36 p.m.

Busse says... #2

No. You don't have enough draw power to discard and generate copies. This might even go creatureless in future reviews. I'm considering Mutilate and Black Sun's Zenith, as the real damage comes from the enchanments and The Rack.

October 25, 2015 11:27 p.m.

Trexzilla says... #3

alright thanks

October 26, 2015 12:35 p.m.

RKPalmer says... #4

I've been keeping and eye on this deck for a while its been looking great, and i can agree with the possibility to creatureless application could be interesting, have you considered 'Waste Not' ?

Plus 1 to long ago would again after the rework.

October 28, 2015 12:27 a.m.

Busse says... #5

Hey! Thanks for that! Much appreciated.
The deck is right now undergoing the experimental phase of the latest build. I still have to get Dark Rituals to test it, but we are getting there.
The next step is testing the Rituals, after that replacing Nyxathid with the good old Hypnotic Specter and then without creatures at all.
It is true that Waste Not goes very smoothly here, BUT only if you get the mana acceleration. Otherwise you may get it too late, when the opponent starts top-decking, and by that point it would be useless.

Stay tuned and feel free to comment whenever you see fit!

PS: Other tweaks I have in mind, as I said previously, is the addition of Black Sun's Zenith or Mutilate.

October 28, 2015 12:44 p.m.

daronmcswag says... #6

Another onion destroyed.

November 13, 2015 11:33 a.m.

Busse says... #7

daronmcswag thanks! Check Sodium Hypochlorite (Allies+BFZ)'s last comment to see the latest onion sacrificed!

November 13, 2015 12:19 p.m.

Boaner says... #8

Why not use Shimian Specter as well?

November 23, 2015 9:41 a.m.

Busse says... #9

Boaner: I used to run Guul Draz Specter in the early builds, along with Hypnotic Specter, but the former proved to be too slow and his P/T too fluctuant.
Instead of him, I started using Nyxathid but right now I'm running a test phase without it and with Hypnotic Specter. It can be put into the battlefield on turn 1 with Dark Ritual, wich I find REALLY appealing :D

Eventually, I'll try this without any creatures at all, running Smallpox and or Mutilate/Black Sun's Zenith.

Hope that answers your question :D Cheers!

November 23, 2015 12:25 p.m.

How good this deck is in Legacy ? Is there any hard counter to this deck ? I feel like its kinda hard to play 8-rack it in Modern cuss of Leyline of SanctityBtw I like the changes with Dark Ritual and Hypnotic Specter but i think its weird to play Sign in Blood in legacy, what about 2 or 3 Phyrexian Arena.

November 24, 2015 3:58 p.m.

zyphermage says... #11

One of the biggest draws to playing mono black racks is being creature-less and blanking all the creature removal cards in their deck. This particular build isn't that strong in legacy imho, it is a modern build with dark rituals. Pox, the gift that keeps giving. would probably be a better example. It has powerful cards that most people do not want to pay for. Even still it has a tough time against brainstorm decks in terms of consistency and faster clocks. That is why chains is so good against brainstorm.

BTW this is my friends list and he has since this week bought his second Chains of Mephistopheles, the effect stacks.

November 24, 2015 4:39 p.m.

zyphermage says... #12

That wasn't a response to the OP/deck builder here exactly. If you have had fun playing this deck as it is then more power to you. I am just speaking to the deck archetype as to its usefulness in legacy.

November 24, 2015 4:44 p.m.

Busse says... #13

Hey people! For starters, let me clarify an issue (that I should put in the description heheh ). This is indeed a Modern deck, with the unfortunate addition of Dark Ritual, which makes it a LOOOT faster/aggressive-r. My meta is plagued with budget and not-so-much-budget Modern, Legacy and some Vintage decks, and we play against each other without distinction; so for the sake of precision for the site, I re-classified this into Legacy. This is so heavily discard-oriented, that it can win (not always, but enough times) against those pesky Legacy decks. That makes me happy in the end, but I'm still working to improve and turn this into an all-around deck. Come hell or high water kind of build.

  • ActionHeroDwag: The counterS to this deck are: -counterspell, -draw decks, and fast /-creature decks. This deck hoses slow and midrange combo decks, some RDW decks and anything that requires you to hold on to some cards in your hand.
    I like your suggestion of 3x Phyrexian Arena. Now with the Dark Rituals I added, the Arena turns into a very real engine instead of the Sign in Blood. More draws mean more The Rack and more Shrieking Afflictions... and I laugh just by the thought of it.
    I still have to evaluate the Hypnotic Specter, which may or may not make the cut. I'm very tempted to go creatureless. What's your opinion in that matter?

  • zyphermage Hi man! As I said, and I agree, this is not the best deck to play in a full-Legacy environment, this is intended for a more casual events. And... how you dare compare a 130 buck deck with a $3400 deck!!! Shame on you.
    What's your opinion regarding the Phyrexian Arena and creatureless build? I like the fact that it negates every kill spell the opponent might have. On the other hand, a Turn 1 Hypnotic Specter is also a threat...
    And yes... I've had fun playing with this deck... and man, when I played against it, I fuckin' hated it! Hahahah

Thanks for the support and advise people! Much appreciated

PS: Someone has had experience with Chainer's Edict, Smallpox or Geth's Verdict ?

November 24, 2015 6:28 p.m.

I would add 1 Dakmor Salvage cuss of Raven's Crime, i also think that Hypnotic Specter is kinda weak cuss prety much anything red can kill it, also Swords to Plowshares... i would like you to keep at least 2 creatures :)Btw thank you for considering everything i suggested, i appreciate :)And btw i havent any experience in legacy, so im a noob there.

November 25, 2015 9:26 a.m.

Busse says... #15

I used to run 3x Nezumi Shortfang turning this into a kind of 12-rack deck. Also Sewer Nemesis was here for a short time too. Nyxathid was recently put out of the equation because it cannot act early, and most of the times he sits idle... making psych-pressure, but idle. Hypnotic Specter was in the original brew, out for years and now it returned thanks to the Dark Ritual I chose to add. Being forcefully Legacy thanks to Hymn to Tourach made the incorporation of DR much easier.

I still have to test the specter in harsh conditions, and I'll update accordingly. A turn 1 specter looks very promising, specially if I can go aggresive on turn 2:

  • T1: Swamp + Dark Ritual + Dark Ritual + Inquisition of Kozilek + Blackmail or Raven's Crime + Hypnotic Specter
  • T2: Swamp + Hymn to Tourach + Attack with Specter.

I am reluctant to add Dakmor Salvage, specially when I CAN discard some Swamps during the late game. I see everybody running Discard decks running Dakmor Salvage, but that doesn't mean it's the right way... and adding a draw engine assures me that I'll always have something else to do, be that playing a sorcery or getting a Land to discard and activate a graveyard'ed Raven's Crime. Don't know, doesn't seem right to me hahahh

Opinions on creature control? Victim of Night over Smallpox or Innocent Blood ?

November 25, 2015 11:10 a.m.

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