Ally decks potentially broken?
General forum
Posted on Aug. 12, 2013, 2:50 p.m. by worn_chaos789
Before I go any further, I don't mean to offend anyone. I'm simply confused as to how anyone who plays mtg for fun can use an ally deck with a clear conscious. My friend has an ally deck he built s few years ago for around $20, and while I may be new to magic and can't recall the names of the cards, it seems to be completely overpowered. It almost seems broken. Within the 1st 2 turns, he usually ends up playing an ally with " get +1/+1 each time an ally enters the battlefield" which leads to a world of hurt by the 4th turn. Which by then, his 1/1 is now a 5/5, he has 2 other 2/2 allies on the field, one with "target player shows cards equal to number of allied you control. Pick a card for him to discard" and the other with "deal damage equal to number of allies om the battlefield." By the 6th turn (assuming I've made it that far, even while dealing damage myself and trying to kerp control" he usally has a few 5/5s, is dealing 6 or so damage each time he plays an ally, and is keeping my hand completely drained with the discard ability. Thats not even including the creature with "whenever you play an ally, choose a color. All creatures you control gsin protrction from thst color until end of turn." Which makes his 10/10 (which might as well be called yourescrewed/yourescrewed at this point) unstoppable. It's infuriating. And to add insult to injury, he's the kind of guy to gloat and rub it in your face by looking at the next few cards he was going to draw and go "yea you were dead next turn anyways" or "youre just mad that your deck cant win." But yea, allies seem overpowered. Cheap, easy to put together, and even easier to play. Any thoughts?
miracleHat says... #3
just make a legacy goblin deck/blue white control deck/blue black control deck.
August 12, 2013 2:59 p.m.
worn_chaos789 says... #4
I agree that slivers are the same concept, but at least slivers aren't rocking abilities like "destroy target player, targets players dignity, target players car, and burn tsrget playefs house to the ground whenever an ally enters the battlefield."
August 12, 2013 3 p.m.
sabrepaisan says... #5
What colors are u running? Im hoping for a splash of black, if ur like me, and then go control on him. Kill off one of his doucheyest allys and surgical extraction on it. Use board wipes to keep him held back. What deck do u play against him usually?
August 12, 2013 3:04 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
They definitely aren't overpowered. You mentioned that you're new to Magic, so it kind of shows that you haven't seen any of the truly overpowered cards and decks yet.
Allies are meant to work together, clearly. They have fantastic synergy because they were designed to be that way. The downside is that you're forced into the all-in design because they don't do well as a partial strategy.
You need to use more removal, especially sweeper-based removal like Day of Judgment , to help maintain an advantage. Allies are inherently creature-based, so removal will disrupt them quite well.
August 12, 2013 3:06 p.m.
worn_chaos789 says... #7
I've tried running a mono red burn deck, a mono black sac deck, and a black red mix. I don't have too many cards to choose from so most of the decks I build are pretty limited. I only have 1 or 2 of the best cards for each deck except my mono red burn, which I actually purchased copies of Shock and spells like it before I played against his ally deck. That deck is now essentially useless against him lol The biggest slap in the face is the cockyness afterwards. He knows hes going to wim, and he rubs it in everytime. And if he loses, he just makes up excuses
August 12, 2013 3:14 p.m.
Bobgalarneau says... #8
Yeah some deck can be brutal, and some player can be bad winners. Eventualy you will find ways to beat him. Since you are a new player, you have one huge advantage over him, you see the game with new eyes and you are unpredictable. Don't try to netdeck to beat him. Take some time on a magic apps or the gatherer and find new cards! Eventualy you will spot some cards that can lead to your win.
I can remember my second night with my EDH playgroup. Casting Ruination , that was my answer to me having only basic lands and them playing pricy ABUR dual lands. The look on their faces was worth it!! Then i learned that land destruction was something they don't usualy do......
August 12, 2013 3:14 p.m.
worn_chaos789 says... #9
I think what I'll do is get my hands on a few more deck kits from the latest core set and blocks, and build a standard legal deck, and yhen just have him do the same. We only have each other to play eith. So that puts him at a disadvantage as well as myself. Kinda like a real world magic play lol
August 12, 2013 3:26 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #10
There's your problem. Burn and sacrifice aren't really as effective against weenie decks that rapidly build board position.
With burn, you'll be spending all of your resources killing creatures and you'll run out of steam very quickly.
With sacrifice, you'll either be hitting the weakest creatures (non-target sacrifice) or too few creatures.
You need to think about building a deck with cards like Day of Judgment or Mutilate to destroy your opponent's board position completely. Forcing an Ally deck to reset is a huge advantage for you.
August 12, 2013 3:27 p.m.
Just play mass removal. You get a free win.
In just black and red, you have Damnation
, Decree of Annihilation
, Decree of Pain
, Devastation
, Dread Cacodemon
, Extinction
, Forced March
, Hellfire
, Jokulhaups
, Life's Finale
, Obliterate
, Overwhelming Forces
, Plague Wind
, Puppet's Verdict
, Rain of Daggers
, Reiver Demon
, Spreading Plague
, Tsabo's Decree
, Void
.
I tried allies a long time ago and ran into the same problem of absolutely NEVER winning against mass removal. It's not the worst archetype ever, but it is entirely predicated on overextending. It's the kind of deck that either wins decisively or gets horribly decimated.
August 12, 2013 3:36 p.m.
worn_chaos789 says... #12
I had no idea black and red had so many mass removal spells. I mean, I kind of figured, but I had no ides where to begin looking. I may just build a deck around 1 or 2 of those spells listed.
August 12, 2013 3:46 p.m.
miracleHat says... #13
in white you have Day of Judgment and Wrath of God . could you post a link to your black red deck so we could help you?
August 12, 2013 3:55 p.m.
Bobgalarneau says... #14
Your best bet is probably what epoch mentioned, Mutilate will rotate out of standard soon and is allready quite cheap. Part of your problem is to wipe the board fast enough and at 4 mana it is should be ok.
You could also run 4 Extinction so you can kill his deck only.
After a few time he will just stop playing his deck and make a new one. I like your idea of getting him into standard so you will play with the same card pool.
August 12, 2013 3:55 p.m.
lord_of_the_snakes says... #15
allies are a different archetype and i run allies in modern, if you want to beat him, just make an affinity deck, they can establish a board prescence faster than allies, and they are colorless, which isn't a color, so it can't be stopped by Kabira Evangel , and like stated, lots of mass removal could also help, die affinity die!
August 12, 2013 4:03 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #16
One of my best decks is an ally aggro-control deck, I think U/W allies are better because you get more for less mana cost.
August 12, 2013 4:05 p.m.
Don't forget stuff like Blasphemous Act or Sever the Bloodline . Not only are they in standard, they're pretty cheap right now, and they'll really mess with allies pretty hard. Life's Finale or Black Sun's Zenith are also really good options, although I personally find tempo control tends to work the best against allies.
I've got a friend who built an ally deck for twenty dollars as well, and it's pretty effective if nobody is running good control. Otherwise, it folds. Hard. I particularly like blue against them, but most of Jimhawk's stuff is right on the mark for dealing with them. just make sure to drop any Kabira Evangel s as soon as they show up and you should be pretty much golden.
August 12, 2013 4:13 p.m.
Goblin Sharpshooter bane of weenies. Seriously a goblin deck would be fun, and hurt allies. Just in case you want another option instead of board wipes.
August 12, 2013 4:35 p.m.
i dont know much about ally's... but if i remember correct they have low toughness right?
HERE ARE THE ANSWER YOUR LOOKING FOR... NO REASON TO PAY 4 MANA...
Pyroclasm the best sweeper in modern...
August 12, 2013 5:16 p.m.
You could also build a tribal elf or slivers deck. Those are the fastest tibal decks i've ever seen (except artfact affinity of course). My tribal elves can gain 400 life a turn by turn 5 or crank out 50 tokens a turn etc etc. With the speed it has I can empty my hand to avoid losing my stuff to discard effects.
August 12, 2013 6:25 p.m.
worn_chaos789 says... #22
I will post a link to my deck after I get off of work, but Torpor Orb coupled with a couple of inexpensive removal spells like Pyroclasm would certainly put his deck in a tough position. Because he has very little sorceries and instants, and relies mainly on his allies abilities to do damage and gain the upper hand. If I could lay down a Torpor Orb soon enough, I could prevent any discard or damage abilities, as well as keep his +1/+1 creatures under control, making the cheaper removal spells extremely effective since none of his creatures toughness will get out of hand, making me have to play an expensive removal spell to clear them out. Then I could even attempt to block and attack since I won't have to worry about any of his creatures being overpowered or having protection from black. Best part, Torpor Orb is a universal card. No adjusting to a different deck :)
August 13, 2013 1:13 a.m.
worn_chaos789 says... #23
Like someone else said, allies seem to work perfectly as long as they keep the momentum going. 5 turns in, they practically unstoppable if you haven't taken any action to stop them yet. If I could stop them from gaining momentum, allies go from a horde of unstoppable creatures, yo a group of rather unimpressive 2/2s. And since he has very little sorceries and instants, it makes his deck just a horde deck. Nothing else. Lots of low power creatures, no way to get anything done unless he actually uses them to attack.
August 13, 2013 2:41 a.m.
lord_of_the_snakes says... #24
yup, Torpor Orb is one thing i hate fighting with my allies, that's why i sideboard Naturalize , what color does he use with his allies? i know black and white from Bala Ged Thief and Kabira Evangel , but are there any others, different ally colors have different strategies for allies, it would be a bit easier knowing his colors.
August 13, 2013 7:53 a.m.
worn_chaos789 says... #25
He plays a black and white ally deck. The orb is gonna help with the allies in general, but I found a few different enchantments that are going to do some massive damage to him. Unfortunately, I no longer have the mono black deck I used against him a few times, but I am going to post the deck I want to build here in just a few minutes
August 13, 2013 8:47 a.m.
worn_chaos789 says... #26
Here is the link for the deck I threw together on lunch at work. It's almost exclusively made in an attempt to trump my buddies ally deck lol I'm sure it would work in a few other situations, but my main goal is to knock him down a few pegs so he can stop being such an intolerable jerk lol Hence, a custom anti deck for him :p
August 13, 2013 8:52 a.m.
I hate to say this but if he's as much of a poor sport as it sounds he'll just make up excuses as to why he lost. But if h keeps losing then maybe that will inspire to build a different deck
August 13, 2013 10:29 a.m.
worn_chaos789 says... #28
You're right. That's how he does things. When he's on the winning end, he thinks he is the best magic player in the world. But if he loses. it's always "I didn't have enough mana" or "I didn't shuffle well enough" or "that deck wasn't even fair" or "the sun was in my eyes." and that last one doesn't even make sense lol He's been like that for as long as I've know him. Very cocky with terrible sportsmanship, whether he's winning or losing. Never "wow, good game. Wanna go again?" Always "you just got owned. You were dead next turn anyways with this card. Your deck sucks bro. Go again?" Makes it terribly hard to play with him, but it's also extremely motivational because I want to win so bad, and this would be my first ever win that was actually a result of planning lol any other wins were all just kinda random luck draws.
August 13, 2013 10:59 a.m.
Elves, Goblins, Faeries, Merfolk, Affinity Artifacts (if you want to count artifacts as a tribe), and (o some extent) Slivers are broken tribes. Things like Allys, Soldiers, etc... are decent table top tribes that can be highly competitive when done properly but are far from broken (especially when compared to the tribes listed above). If you want to beat your friends deck just play mass removal as everyone's already said and (if you're feeling especially douchebagish) Torpor Orb (also already mentioned).
As for your friend he really needs to check his attitude or you'll not only be the only person he has to play with right now you'll end up also as the only person ever WILLING to play with him.
August 13, 2013 1:13 p.m.
lord_of_the_snakes says... #30
take your friend to a modern tournament, he'll realize that he is annoying and not as good as he thinks (hopefully) and should check his attitude
August 13, 2013 2:31 p.m.
Most of the people playing modern in my LGS would wipe the floor with this guy and is tibal allies. It's a real eye opener
Narwek says... #2
People do it the same way they use slivers :p. They're all overpowered
August 12, 2013 2:58 p.m.