Thanks guyz! I will get the other Thrasios list you mentionned, and if the other one you are currently working on proves to be better, I will change it in a near future.

Breya, Thrasios and GAAIV moved up to t1. Zada and Dralnu moved up to t3. Saffi and Titania moved down to t3. I can get behind these changes. Great work and thanks for listening to our collective feedback.

I'd like to nominate Breya Ad naus for the Breya list as this is the one I've always had in mind when I advocated for Breya as t1.

Thanks p0megranates, for sure it is a great list, but since I never played with or against Breya, I will wait for others to vote on this, but yeah, I get your point!!!

Will the Derevi Prison deck we currently have for tier 1 make use of Thrasios / should it?

@Noctem: No. Thrasios is a 3-card combo at minimum, and none of the cards that easily combo with him (Dramatic-Scepter, Basalt-Rings, Bomberman, etc) are worth running in the deck on their own. Much like any other commander-based combo, he's not worth playing in the 99 of another deck. Much like Prossh, Sharuum, and any other commander-centric deck, Thrasios loses a lot of his power when he's not in the command zone.

@merrowMania: We tried it once. The problem was getting everyone on board. It ended up just splitting activity, much what happened for the first few months after transitioning from Pmonk's list to Gigi's. Given enough time it might work, but it ends up being extremely inefficient.

@MagicalHacker: Actually, there is! There's an option to share decks with specific users to grant editing power. I haven't personally tested it much, but it seems to work on public decks. We'll have to test this further and see if it works here.

@thegigibeast: Care to weigh in on the deck sharing to grant editing power idea?

@NarejED

Definitely worth testing to share deck. I will try this ASAP, as giving you some editing powers on this list could only be good.

Some editing powers have been given to NarejED after popular demand ;)

Thanks for the answer NarejED. Is the current list for Derevi up to date? I'm building it at the moment.

I for one welcome our new overlord!

@Noctem: Indeed it is. I try to update all of my decklists at least once per set release in order to stay current with meta changes and new cards entering the format. As of Kaladesh, Derevi is up to date.

@thegigibeast: Excellent! Thank you so much. With my new editing power, I vow to go completely crazy with power and ruin-- err, I mean, keep the the list up to date and as accurate as possible.

With that line of thought, now seems as good a time as any to introduce this survey. I've been collecting feedback on the tier list from various sources including here and the competitive EDH subreddit. Based on suggestions, I've created the following poll for changes. Link to Survey. It consists of eight commander movements, one feedback question on the survey itself, and one open-ended question for any questions/concerns/suggestions you might have. I'll edit it into the Tier List description for visibility until the poll closes (probably on the 20th, when Aether Revolt officially releases).

Thoughts?

Yay for T3 lists!

The ad naus Breya deck by mmcgeach is one of the best Breya decks out there.

I think the polls NarejED is implementing are a great idea. It feels like a great way to facilitate focused discussion about particular generals. I dont think they should be the sole basis for demotion or promotion as not all votes are necessarily equal in terms of the understanding of why a general is good. For instance at first glance Jeleva and Tazri look to be horrible tier 3 at best generals and Ruric Thar seems bad unless you know of how well he punishes some top tier decks.

One name on the survey that suprised me is Nath of the Gilt-Leaf. Can someone who has played Nath or against a tuned list give me an idea of how he could compete with tier 1-2 generals?

Lilbrudder I agree. While a good method, the voice of the majority is not the same as the voice of the informed individual. The majority of the people viewing this list are not cEdh players but spikey players looking to get into cedh or just simply like to read some of the more informative conversations. So as it stands it should not be in anyway,a way to promote or demote any commander. It should simply be a way to gauge the communities feeling on it. Then to demote or promote, you take one commander, and focus on it at one at a time, and hold an open forum where people can argue who should be moved up or done...we do that as it is....but this will show who actually understands why the chose their position and who has the knowledge to back it up.

Lilbrudder

I have played against a tuned Nath list and I can tell you it is a very solid Tier 2 strategy. It plays as a grindy stax deck but leverages Nath as a parity breaker available from the command zone. Nath generates value using both the discard effect (via waste not type cards) and the token generation to fuel soft locks (via contamination effects) and draw via skullclamp. The game ender is Possesed Portal, which is brutal and wins in short order.

After the online reddit tourney in early 2016 we did a season of "league" where pods were assigned randomly and score were kept for a season. Coinman got 2nd using primarily Nath (you could change week to week) against a wide variety of tuned, budgetless tier 1/2 decks.

tw0handt0uch: Thank you for the explanation on Nath. Is there a list handy I can check out? I have always liked him, but never thought he could be competitive.

Thanks for the pointer to my Breya Ad naus list. I've been working on it and playing it for a couple months; so far, I think there's a few things I can say for sure:

1. Breya needs to have ad naus, doomsday, and necro.
2. The artifact based combos (reliant on krark-clan ironworks, and maybe eldrazi displacer or nim deathmantle) are categorically worse than the worldgorger dragon and bomberman combos.
3. There's a lot of interaction/board presence available with just Breya herself, the card. There's less stack interaction than a Zur list, but more ability to fight through on-board hate.

I don't know if we've found the ultimate list yet, but I'm pretty sure what we've got now puts Breya at about Tier 1. Not the top of Tier 1, but, I don't feel disadvantaged against anything but Zur.

Lilbrudder

As luck would have it coinman just released a primer here

I know of a very good Angry Omnath list, if you are interested in it. It's a landfall combo list that seems like the best way to run Om_rath.

Also, I will continue to advocate for Silumgar, the Drifting Death to move down to tier 4 unless I'm missing something..

Looks solid otherwise, I'll probably look over it in the nigh future and will comment on anything. :)

TheMarcus - Silumgar's ability is quite relevant: with the pervasive number of mana dorks in the format, one swing can wreck a board state.

Voted in NarejED's thing. Glad to see Nath getting some love.

Triton, Silumgar, the Drifting Death is an aggro based deck that repeatedly wipes your opponent's boards of creatures before they can block. Those things fit together suuuper well in a non-competitive setting. How is that not Tier 3?

Sure, the deck is super unpopular because you need to include changelings and other weird cards, but that doesn't mean it's not viable. I would not recommend demoting him.

I think we should take a second to talk about some of the AR spoilers, because there are already a lot of commander relevant cards.

For starters, we already have three new mono-colored commanders: Yahenni, Undying Partisan, Rishkar, Peema Renegade, and Sram, Senior Edificer.

While I definitely wouldn't include it in the 99 of any other sac-based deck, Yahenni is interesting for being a free sac-outlet in the command zone, something that Ayli demonstrated is effective as way to continuously cycle ETB effects in a reanimation deck. Yahenni is at a slight disadvantage from not having white's suite of reanimation effects, but the fact that Yahenni is a free altar opens the deck up to more combo potential. Could move up or down depending on what people come up with.

Rishkar seems like a decent source of ramp, although the counters theme seems to be pulling the deck in multiple directions. Will likely be effective in the 99 of many decks, such as Atraxa, Ghave, new-Ezuri, Mimeo, Vorel, and maybe Animar. I'm interested to see what people think of for him.

Sram is the first low CMC commander that draws cards in mono-white that we've ever seen, which by itself is probably enough to make him better than every other mono-white commander and get a spot in T3. The early mock-p I've seen for him so far have involved flooding the deck with 40% equipment and using mana reducers to make them cost 0, then voltron-ing out. A little one dimentional, but there's no reason it wouldn't work. There's also the possibility of trying to turn him into a recursive draw engine with something like Cloudstone Curio + two auras.

I'm going to suggest that they all be placed in T3 to start with.

Now for the 99 cards:

Glint-Sleeve Siphoner, Not quite a poor man's Dark Confidant, since energy is still an unreliable mechanic, but at worst it's drawing you a card every other turn. Could fit into decks that were already running some of the other energy cards, or ones with a heavy proliferate theme (Atraxa).

Industrial Tower, A new rainbow land that comes into play untapped an is going to be online in 90% of commanders decks. New auto-include?

Inspirational Monuments, Link, This is interesting because it is essentially an Earthcraft/Cryptolith Rite for artifacts in every color. It's less combo-y since you're just casting spells with it, but from a ramp perspective this could be phenomenal in non-green decks with heavy artifact themes. (I just voted Purphoros down, because I run him, and I've been noticing lately that he can't match the speed of the other commanders in T2, but this card could really help with his mana issues.)

Rishkar's Expertise, This looks fantastic. Not only are there are lots of Green decks that go in on Soul's Majesty effects (Omnath 1.0, Ezuri 2.0), but this one lets you play something for free out of the oodles of cards you just drew. That's fantastic tempo, and more than makes up for it costing 6 mana IMO.

Mechanized Production, It's an upkeep trigger, and there's no good way to cheat it in at EOT, so it's not going to cut it in any competitive metas, but this is one of the most attainable alternate win-cons that's been printed recently. Any deck that makes routinely artifact tokens is going to be able to satisfy this, so if Felidar Sovereign was at all playable in your meta, this will be too.

Renegade Rallier, Hey look! Saffi got a new combo piece. And we just demoted her too...

Merchant's Porter, Not the most impressive card spoiled so far, but at 1-mana initial investment this could make a nice draw/filter engine for blue draw-go control decks on turns that there wasn't anything worth countering.

Metallic Mimic, We all know that tribal decks suck and are an exercise in restricting yourself, but it's worth noting that this is another 2 CMC scarecrow for Reaper King.

Winding Constrictor, This little guy has huge amounts of potential, and a low enough cost to actually make its way into a lot of decks. Off the top of my head: new combo piece for Ghave, doubles counters in Atraxa, and doubles your EXP gain in Meren.

And of course, we already discussed how amazing Paradox Engine and Whir of Invention are before the comment sweep.

Before the comment sweep someone was saying that the Daretti list in the description is from 2014 and could use an update, so I took a crack at it:

Updated Daretti

Commander / EDH* sonnet666

0 VIEWS

Not that much has changed though, honestly. It is mono-red after all. I just added some of the new utility lands that fit the deck well, and Alhammarret's Archive since it turns Daretti's +2 into a draw engine.

Since there's wasn't much to change I left Paramount's original description and a link to the facebook page, but it might better to use this in the description here so we're not making people view the decklist on facebook.

And after reading the deck primer, it's pretty clear that this list was hurt by the mulligan change. A lot of the deck is focused around using your mulligans to get Daretti out turn 2 in order to keep him from being countered. Not sure if the competitive metas will still aggressively counter something like Daretti if he were to come out a turn later, but nevertheless it still slows down the deck a little.

sonnet666 "Tribal decks suck"

Excuse me, but I'd like a word with you.

Works for me! The current Daretti list has definitely been a point of complaint from a lot of sources. Any tuned list is a welcome replacement, and your submission definitely fits that bill. Added!

As for the legendaries spoiled thus far, I agree on all your placements.Nnothing jumps out as terribly strong. Sram could have been an excellent commander if his ability procced off artifacts instead the things that it does. As is, he feels lower tier 3. Rishkar has a bit of potential as a combo/creature storm commander, sort of like a weaker Seton, Krosan Protector (another commander that might need to be moved up). Rishkar feels tier 3, as does Yahenni.

Out of the cards spoiled thus far, Whir of Invention and Paradox Engine still have the most competitive potential. Both will end up in multiple high-power decks. Beyond that, there are a few niche cards. As you said, Renegade Rallier will be excellent in Saffi combos (and possibly Boonweaver by extension). Metallic Mimic is yet another combo piece for Ghave that has the upsides of being low-cost, low color, and being tutorable by a wide range of spells thanks to its card types.

@Lilbrudder: Yeah, the survey is by no means an end-all for placement changes. It just helps get a feel for popular opinions. It also helps advocate changes that should already be obvious, like moving Ruric up to Tier 2.

Exciting to see tier 3 list. Makes this tier system very robust, because now the line between tier 2 and 3 is much more testable with tuned decklists.

I wonder if Rishkar, Preema Renegade could work as part of Animar's 99? Best case scenario, you get to cast him for 1 mana and he allows Animar plus two other creatures to tap for green, kind of making him a green Dark Ritual. He also has good interactions with Wirewood Symbiote.