Also, I never said storm. I only mean twin.

My mistake... but my point still stands - most Kess Twin lists have a supporting combo line involving Labman + Tainted Pact/Consultation and Kess is really important to that line since you can Consult for labman, cast it, then Kess flashback Consultstion to exile the rest of the library and win on draw step or with a cantrip. It makes an effectively 1 card combo (plus commander). This line + normal kess value things would make a Grixis version significantly better than a generic 5c imo.

I have found that those lines are a tad risky, yet very playable. My only issue with it is normally the deck is just fine without those lines. I believe Intuition lines are the biggest downside to not playing Kess. I have also found when testing kess, though to be honest I haven't had a ton of games with my kess recently, that she normally wasn't needed unless I wnated to combo out with Intuition, I generally didn't cast her unless I had nothing else to do, which left me feeling that she doesn't matter a ton to the core of the deck. I mean the deck was great before she was released, and though the general consensus is that she is the best (In fact mine included), I don't believe she should be considered a "Tier 1" list, if we are only judging a deck by how much the commander synergizes with the deck.

I point was not that she isn't the best in any way, only that if I switched her out, that the deck would stand very well, and that means she doesn't synergize a ton. On the other hand The Gitrog Monster requires it's commander, it doesn't really stand at all without him. Does that mean The Gitrog Monster is better than Kess, Dissident Mage? No, of course it doesn't, and this list has him tiered lower than Kess, which proves gtoast99's theory wrong.

gtoast99 thought that this list was a bunch of decks "based" around the commander. The Gitrog Monster is, but Kess, Dissident Mage was not built solely to gain value from her ability. The only reason this theory was brought up was to combat my statement about how Karona, False God and other commanders with just good colors should be tier 2, and not tier 5.

Nothing was meant to say Kess, Dissident Mage was not the best commander for the decks like Grixis Storm or Grixis Twin. I apologize if that was what you got from it.

Kess still probably does the most for the list, even if "the most" isn't a whole lot.

We agree there! Well, Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge might argue otherwise, but generally I think Kess, Dissident Mage is better.

this has to be the most famous cardlist on this site

Well, not nessecarily, I have found a lot of people to use the card lists to find the right cards, like List of EDH Tutor Cards and friends.

enpc:
Basically i just realized i stopped playing FFA but i was still looking AT the FFA tier list while also forgetting that this list was multiplayer centric in the first place, which makes me feel better about teegs tier 3 rating, he just gets run off the board to often to go higher.

I tried to order the categories and make it fairly straight-forward but yes, it is a lot of categories, and as such i just went and condensed it down to 7 categories. I've put the FFA card category in the sideboard and dispersed the previous sideboard into the primary categories, to also simplify the fact that I've been playing only 1v1.
This has been a long time coming and the numerous categories were temporary simply for my benefit as a work in progress, simplifying it was simply a matter of requesting it be simplified. =p
That said i have almost no further interest in developing FFA teeg builds, adjusting this builds FFA proficiency, or making a separate decklist.

As for cards missing, Gaea's Cradle, Mox Amber, and Cryptolith Rite for pseudo-dorks were previously in the sideboard so they'll now be found on the primary list.

For the rest its too long to write and mostly stems from switching to 1v1 anyway. (you can get away with sooooo much)

For the reasons above i rescind my request to have my mid-range creature aggro teeg deck added to your lists, as well as my recommendation to upping teeg's tier rating.

Anybody notice that Ramos decklist had Najeeba as the commander?

It was updated and the list hasn't changed for a while.

I disagree with putting Gitrog and Tazri in the same category; there should be at least 3 distinctions.

1) Shell decks that can ignore the commander e.g. Grixis storm

2) Shell decks that cannot ignore the commander e.g. General Tazri. I know General Tazri is the only 5 color Food Chain Commander, but I would argue the strategy is centered around FC, not on Tazri, which flies a bit in the face of a "Tier list by Commander"

3) Decks that are unique to their Commander e.g. Gitrog, CVT, Yisan, Edric, Captain Sissay, Tasigur, etc.

There may be even more nuance in Tasigur simply being the best Sultai control commander, I think a few more layers of nuance are better than just 2.

Sidisi, Brood Tyrant makes a great Food Chain commander, I wouldn't call Tasigur, the Golden Fang the best at all.

I no longer play Baral and do not want to be the Baral list linked in the description. Please use asm's list instead.

Can someone submit best list for Rofellos? I know he's banned, just want to compare with Selvala which i think is better option because of draw. Thanks

I'm wondering where Najeela and the other Battlebond generals are. I want to know about the M19 Elder Dragons too? How much play-testing is done before you can tier a general?

The Locust God is waaaaay too low of a tier. I have been working on a locust god deck and it still may be rough around the edges but I can consistently challenge my friend's cEDH decks and half the time even win. I say atleast tier 2 or 1.5

Flindsey2249 HAHA biased much...

Kiyomei - I got this:

Flindsey2249 - Fully understand your opinion, but this list is going through a lot of changes, so I think it will change, in my opinion, every deck is able to be tier 2.5, see Why Every Commander is Competitive for why.

What do you even mean you got this?

It's all still an opinion and will always be biased as CEDH can't be 100% properly looked at for now until statistics and a huge amount of data from tournaments and events (not the hey I won vs my friends who think they are CEDH kind of data) get released... which is something that won't happen anytime soon as wizards don't really support CEDH at the moment... And we are not going anywhere as long as we have Sheldon Menery who isn't involved in CEDH at all...

Sure you can believe in your "Everyone Wins everything is competitive" fairytale ... it remains and will always still be an opinion.

This list was merely made in a sense to put commanders in a certain "tier" so we can get an idea of slight power differences in speed and what not but on paper any deck from "tier 1" to "tier 3" that is sitting in a 4-man pod has the "potential" to win and perform well keeping in mind that some decks focus more on speed and others can run more control for example... the game itself it still is affected by RNG, Turn order and the unknown factor what the opponents might have kept when they saw your commander so more RNG...

Also nice Clickbait Title, Surely won't click it anymore...

Kiyomei - My data was based on a lot of data (almost a few hundred playtests, and tens of games) on the power of the 99, if I can prove a deck can handle not having a commander, then a deck could totally could run a bad commander, and still be good, that isn't biased, I collected my own data, and my results I believe prove the name. It is click-bait, but you need to do what you need to do xD

n0bunga

Well, those two (Zur/Tazri) are specific, also, I actually think Zur could be dropped for Thrasios/Tymna pretty easily, despite being a little worse.

Teferi is a stax-combo-control list that requires the combo with the commander, I was actually saying nearly 300. About 296 playtests, and most of them aren't nearly tier 1, yet are tier 2.5.

I think tier 2.5 is okay, even good for a commander like Hope of Ghirapur with being my choice for the worst commander., at least for deck-building capabilites.

All I was saying is that a bad commander helming an incredible deck could compete consitently, not syaing it is equal to or better than current lists. I apologize if you misinterpreted my stance!

Probably because you don't feel like it, but my argument only is saying Tier 3/4/5 shouldn't exist, because any of them can be built better, do you disagree?

I'm sorry, how exactly did Xira Arien get bumped down to Tier 3? She is definitely better than Teysa, Orzhov Scion, Melek, Izzet Paragon, Anafenza, the Foremost, etc. Jund storm is a viable strategy and she's one of the best to helm it alongside Prossh