best draw cards for modern boros burn
Modern forum
Posted on March 3, 2022, 12:29 a.m. by 9-lives
I'm thinking that Risk Factor is one of the best draw cards for a modern boros burn deck? 4 damage or 3 card draw... Jump-start is also great if I need more cards after I cast it once, and the opponent is likely to not want me to have an advantage of card draw if they know I'm low on cards in my hand, so they choose the 4 damage. Browbeat is also good, but it's a sorcery.
Except they will always choose the best option for them. Its a bad idea and there is a reason burn decks do not run it.
They do however, run pain sac lands so they can turn excess lands into draw to find the final burn spells as the risk is low and payoff high.
March 3, 2022 2:15 a.m.
wallisface says... #4
Yeah as has been eluded to above, the only truely viable draw card in a burn deck is Sunbaked Canyon. Anything else is really just letting your opponent live for a turn longer than they should be.
March 3, 2022 4:44 a.m.
If you went more boros mid range Esper Sentinel would work but in a pure burn deck it's much too slow
March 3, 2022 8:05 a.m.
TriusMalarky says... #7
Lurrus of the Dream-Den. Modern burn lists also run Light Up the Stage on occasion but you're really fast enough and have enough redundancy compared to, say, Pioneer that draw in general is largely useless.
See this stock modern burn list.
Honestly, if you get to the point where you need to be drawing cards with a modern quality burn deck, you've either lost the game or a Lightning Bolt off the top will win you the game.
March 3, 2022 10:53 a.m.
With regard to Risk Factor, I know that 4 damage is not so great for a 3 MV, but in a burn deck, either way of dealing 4 damage or drawing 3 cards is very useful. And, if they decide to take the 4 damage, and I jumpstart, they're going to face at least 8 damage which isn't to be scoffed at, or allow me to draw 3 cards. And, dealing 4 damage and then drawing 3 cards isn't a bad thing either. I looked at a few burn decks and they sometimes have useless cards like ones that cost 3 MV and only do 1 damage to each creature. This card would be a good replacement for those.
Also, I need a good draw card. You can't always have the best hand, and in my burn deck I often find myself outpacing my upkeep draw into an empty hand. I'm also planning on running Vexing Devil in the same manner as this aikido. Vexing Devil like when people add Monastery Swiftspear but far better, as it can be a 4 damage for 1 mana, or a 4/3 on the field. Either way they won't have a chance if it's early in the game. Also, Vexing Devil and Risk Factor, along with Boros Reckoner, Deflecting Palm are my go-to aikido cards.
March 3, 2022 3:26 p.m.
9-lives There's a subtle, but important difference between aikido and burn: Aikido is reactive, burn is proactive.
A competitive burn deck doesn't want to give your opponent options or wait for them to make the first move. Its first, last, and pretty much only strategy is as much damage as possible, as fast as possible. If there's a chance a spell won't deal damage, it's pretty much out.
Aikido and punisher decks are slower and more controlling. They can use some burn-type cards as finishers or removal, but they don't want or need that same face-first approach. Aikido wants the opponent to act, since that's where it pulls its strength from. Punisher decks try to force the opponent into disadvantageous positions they can't recover from. Either one can be good, and they might have some overlap with burn, but they're different strategies.
March 3, 2022 3:52 p.m.
wallisface says... #10
9-lives to counter your points:
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being 3cmc makes Risk Factor particularly bad. Burn only runs around 19 lands because they ideally don’t want to draw more than 2 lands over the course if the game. Running more lands to accomodate for RF just means you’re ruining your draw potential, not helping it. Further to that, 3 mana for 4 damage is reeeaaally slow, and isn’t going to help you win any games. If you’re having to ever resort to Jump-Starting it, i would say you’re in a match you’ve already lost.
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What is this card you’re talking about that costs 3 mana to do 1 damage to each creature? Because such a card would never be played by a burn deck. Period. Comparing Risk Factor to another garbage card that nobody plays, doesn’t make it more viable.
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Monastery Swiftspear is amazing, while Vexing Devil is hot trash. The best case scenario for devil is that it deals 4 damage. But more often than not (especially after turn 2), it’ll do nothing at all and just eat a killspell.
I feel like you’re too fixated on your “pet cards”, and ignoring the advice and decklists people have posted above. So far none of the cards you’re suggesting work in burn decks, and for good reason. It would be helpful to understand the vantage point the community is coming from
March 3, 2022 4:06 p.m.
I feel as though you're not describing Burn so much as Prowess. Burn will run Light Up the Stage since it becomes a 1-mana spell, but not a lot of draw besides that. All your spells are worth 3 damage anyway.
Prowess leans more on Light up the Stage, Reckless Impulse, and Mishra's Bauble to provide card draw and prowess triggers. More removal spells with Path and Prismatic Ending to ensure that Dragon's Rage Channeler and Swiftspear can get in. They're subtly different decks but if you're more concerned about being about to churn through your deck I think you might like Prowess more.
March 3, 2022 5:04 p.m.
For a purely casual burn deck, I really love running Syr Carah, the Bold for some card advantage. She plays really nice with Rift Bolt because you will be untapping when rifty-B does it's damage. And this is just me, but I like Needle Drop
Uggh, this makes me want to dust off my burn some draw some Izzet deck. Thanks!
March 3, 2022 5:25 p.m.
I'm not looking for a pure burn deck. I thinik I have enough burn cards to let me win a game with pure burn, along with Eidolon of the Great Revel. I'm running aikido, and I know that they're kinda pet cards, but regardless this is my ideal game. If I wanted to run a pure burn deck it would ruin the fun as well as novelty of having a modern aikido/burn deck. If you think that Risk Factor sucks for 4 damage, what do you think about it's flip side? Generally with 1 mana, you're only going to draw one card. I want opponents to have the choice, and same with Vexing Devil. How in the hell is Monastery Swiftspear better than Vexing Devil?! Vexing Devil is either a 4 damage card for 1 mana, or a 4/3 creature for 1 mana? Saying Monastery Swiftspear is better is like not knowing that 4/3 is better than a usually 2/3. Haste isn't that great. And, the two sides of Vexing Devil is perfect for both burn and attack.
March 3, 2022 5:58 p.m.
Also, does Light Up the Stage mean that you don't have to pay mana costs to 'play' these cards? Or is it just a 'cast-from-hand'?
March 3, 2022 5:59 p.m.
To mention something important, since I don't have as many burn cards as a traditional burn deck, I think that Vexing Devil will be even more useful, as it has the versatitliy of adding to my burn if the choice is made. Much of my deck is based on knowing when to use cards; occasion is the essence. If i play Vexing Devil early, they're most likely going to accept the burn. If I play it later, they're most likely going to have to face a difficult creature.
March 3, 2022 6:05 p.m.
Light Up the Stage still requires you to pay the mana costs for the exiled spells. They follow all the usual rules for casting/playing, the only difference is that you're casting/playing from exile. You're still limited to one land play per turn, paying mana and other costs, etc.
Also, cards like Risk Factor and Vexing Devil cede control of the outcome to an opponent. While either effect would be very good for its cost, putting either one in a burn shell will mean you almost always get the less-useful outcome. A 4/3 for is a great stats/MV ratio, but it has a nonzero chance of being removed before it takes any action, and a dead 4/3 isn't worth anything in a burn shell. While the same "dies to removal" argument can apply to Monastery Swiftspear, in this case the haste means it can attack and disrupt the opponent instead of waiting a turn.
To compare Vexing Devil to a burn staple, Lightning Bolt, both cost . Bolt will virtually always deal 3 damage to your opponent. VDevil may or not, depending on whether the opponent thinks it's an acceptable loss. Ceding control like this decreases consistency, which is a fatal flaw in high-level play. Versatility is best when you control the outcome.
Of course, there is absolutely nothing wrong with pet cards. Reaper of the Wilds is one of my favorites. But the original question asked about Modern burn, and it's reasonable to infer a competitive context. There is no place for pet cards in full competitive play, unless the pet card is or can be established in competitive play. Aikido-burn and punisher-burn sound like fun decks to both use and face, but asking about cards from those decks in a Modern burn context will result in people describing what Modern burn currently looks like.
It's never my intent to downtalk someone's deck. I want everyone to have the opportunity to use what they enjoy. But there's a reason why Aikido cards and punisher cards don't show up in a pure burn deck: they simply don't support the strategy as intended. Aikido and punisher decks can have some card overlap with burn decks, but they are not burn decks.
March 3, 2022 6:33 p.m.
wallisface says... #17
9-lives So it appears you deck isn't actually a "burn" deck, and more some kind of aikido-brew. legendofa has already done a great job of listing the differences between these archtypes above... I think having this question titled as being about adding draw to a "burn" deck will mean you're going to get lots of answers unhelpful for your specific conundrum (because, burn doesn't play draw, and in any case, you're not playing burn).
You still need to pay mana costs for cards exiled by Light Up the Stage. Cards will specifically state when you can ignore paying mana - if they don't, assume you need to pay the costs.
On the Vexing Devil topic, the issues with the cards are that the most damage it can EVER do realistically is 4 damage. This is because your opponent has the choice how to handle it. If they don't have an answer for it (or don't want to use an answer), they'll just take the hit. If they have a way to deal with it (by either having a chonkier creature, or having a killspell), they'll just let it resolve and then deal with it (meaning, if your opponent lets it resolve, you should be able to safely assume it's doing nothing).
Comparing this to Monastery Swiftspear, the opponent doesn't get a choice to "ignore it" and limit the damage it can deal. They HAVE to be able to deal with it somehow, or have it deal damage to them every round (including, on the turn it comes out). It's likely the case that even if they have an answer for it, Swiftspear will have managed to chip in some amount of damage before this (it's not uncommon to see it do 2-3 damage turn 1 in a prowess deck with Mishra's Bauble. But even in typical burn, it's likely to be constantly swinging as a 3/4 turns 2-onwards).
Unlike Devil, Swiftspear FORCES the opponent to use resources from their hand to deal with it. Unlike Devil, Swiftspear doesn't have a maximum amount of damage it can do. And yes, Haste is extremely relevant for burn, which can often get the opponent down to very-little life totals but then need a solid topdeck - in those case Devil just buys the opponent an extra turn, whereas Swiftspear can immediately cause damage that may be relevant for the win.
^ Now, all the above doesn't mean Vexing Devil is useless... though I would say its a poor choice for Burn, Prowess, and Aikido - so I really wouldn't recommend running it in any such build (i'm don't think Swiftspear belongs in Aikido either). It feels to me that the Devil works better in builds that can constantly and repeatedly re-animate it, in an effort to reduce the glaring weakness the card has of letting your opponent decide how it dies.
The question you ask of: "If you think that Risk Factor sucks for 4 damage, what do you think about it's flip side? Generally with 1 mana, you're only going to draw one card." - I don't understand what you're asking here. You might need to rephrase it.
March 3, 2022 6:50 p.m.
Hehe, legendofa aikido is pretty useful. I won a round by using a single Deflecting Palm, when it looked as though the opponent were to win.
March 3, 2022 9:11 p.m.
Grubbernaut says... #19
When in doubt, 99.9% of the time, the pros know best. Swiftspear isn't just better than Devil, it's a LOT better. Almost any card that gives the decision to your opponent is bad unless you can force the choice, and you can't with any of these cards we're discussing.
March 3, 2022 10:30 p.m.
As a thought for Vexing Devil, it could work with cards like Claim / Fame and Call of the Death-Dweller. Fill it out with something like Serrated Scorpion and Perilous Myr, maybe some sacrifice effects like Viscera Seer, and that might be a decent casual deck. (Dumping ideas off the top of my head, so I'm sure there are better card options.)
March 4, 2022 2:24 a.m.
Oh wait a second. I remember you now! Last time was on your toolbox deck and it was like smashing my head into a brick wall that made smug sound effects.
Look, clearly you are the great MtG pro of all times and your deck should be 4 Risk Factors. 4 Vexing Devil. Whatever other random card you decide is somehow amazing. Whatever. You never listen and get annoyed when folks point stuff out.
March 4, 2022 2:41 a.m.
I mean from the title of the thread, I would definitely go with Swans of Bryn Argoll as the best card draw available to Boros burn. However, if the game is going long enough that you actually benefit from such a card, I would think you are failing as a burn deck.
You could maybe have a transitional sideboard that lets you go from burn to more controlling, and utilize such a card, to render their Leyline of Sanctity and such useless. Nonetheless, I don't think burn is generally interested in card draw, since time is more essential to their game plan, so every mana spent drawing cards is a mana they cannot use to burn their opponent's faces.
Omniscience_is_life says... #2
Burn generally doesn't rely on draw power at all--your gameplan should be to kill your opponent as fast as possible, and it's ok if you're hellbent as long as your opponent is dead; that's the general mentality of the deck.
The reason for this is that killing your opponents with burn is very hard! If you dilute your deck with meh cards like Risk Factor and Browbeat, your chances drop significantly. You just need to dedicate so much attention to the strategy that there's really no room left.
Here's a link to a good Modern Boros Burn deck: here
March 3, 2022 1:45 a.m.