Talking about green grass, take a while to listen this :)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4Ao-iNPPUc

About the deck, it's curve is rather high. You will have big troubles having 3-4 5+ drops laying in hand. And your deck has plenty of those. 2cc mana guys aren't awesome.

@Lightstorm Thanks for your input. Yeah, I am still trying to figure out the right land for the three colors but since BFZ is here now, I have a lot of ways to get all the three colors for mana quickly. I took out 1 Den Protector (which I already planned), 1 Exquisite Firecraft and put in 2 Temur Sabertooth. I am considering making room for Sagu Mauler. Decisions, decisions.

Btw, great song, good cover!

Run some Savage Knuckleblades

@Jhereg2467 Yeah, I already have those mainboarded if you hadn't notice lol. Good suggestion though. If I didn't have them in already, I would have added them now. :D

Not to be an party pooper, but this deck will lose miserably to the Atarka Red deck that just one the SCG open.

You are running red, and you are leaving out the best burn spell out. Early interaction is crucial for this sort of deck. Run some Wild Slash and Radiant Flames in your board.

The atarka red deck that won had no problem attacking through several siege rhinos.

Shaman of Forgotten Ways should be 4x, with Kiora you can have 7 mana by turn 4. Retreat to Coralhelm also lets you untap Shaman for even more mana with every land drop. I think Knuckleblade is more aggro, in this deck you're looking to spend your mana to cast more creatures not pump one up. Obscuring AEther played turn 1 allows a turn 2 morphed Rattleclaw. Turn 3 drop Forgotten Ways, turn 4 flip Rattleclaw to cast Kiora, tap and float Forgotten's 2, use Kiora's plus 1 to add 3 more, tap remaining 2 lands and drop Atarka or Omnath. Try and keep an uncracked fetch when you drop Omnath so if they try and kill him you can crack the fetch and at least get a 5/5 and 3 damage out of it.

Fetchlands work great with Retreat to Coralhelm and Shaman of Forgotten Ways as you can tap him to float mana, drop land untap him float 2 more, crack the fetch untap float 2 more. That's 6 mana for a fatty without even tapping any lands. Got 4 lands? Play Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. On Turn 5.

With Omnath and Whisperwood, Undergrowth Champion, Woodland Wanderer and Grove Rumbler are even better. Woodland Wanderer pairs great with Shaman of Forgotten Ways as he can make and for Wanderer to come in as a 6/6. Beastcaller also good for this, and your lands and Rattleclaw provide the other 3 colors. Surrak Dragonclaw good against countermagic, could be a sideboard or even main deck 1-of. Surrak, the Hunt Caller accelerates the pace of things and could be good as well.

Hope this helps!

@Jimmy_Chinchila First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to suggest new things to my deck. I really appreciate it!

Anyways, I have Savage Knuckleblade in there because I feel like he is a solid 3 drop if I need him until I ramp to my bigger creatures. I know it probably defeats the purpose of my deck though, but it just makes me feel more secure in my early draws. But is it really necessary for this type of deck? Like I mentioned, I am new to ramping for creatures. I was used to winning with my red burn deck.

I will definitely consider the creatures you have mentioned to maybe add. Undergrowth Champion would be a good creature in this deck but I feel like I would need 4 of him which would end up costing quite a bit. I definitely want to add 1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger mainboard eventually. Woodland Wanderer I will definitely look more into because as you mentioned it would work well with Shaman of Forgotten Ways

Overall, my main question maybe you can help me out with is, do I have a good mana curve for this type of deck? I ask that because I am literally obsessed with making a perfect mana curve. But yet, does it really need to matter for a ramping deck? Because it seems I have a couple creatures in here just to fix the mana curve a bit, when I should be mainly focusing on what is going to help me win the game.

@Jimmy_Chinchila First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to suggest new things to my deck. I really appreciate it!

Anyways, I have Savage Knuckleblade in there because I feel like he is a solid 3 drop if I need him until I ramp to my bigger creatures. I know it probably defeats the purpose of my deck though, but it just makes me feel more secure in my early draws. But is it really necessary for this type of deck? Like I mentioned, I am new to ramping for creatures. I was used to winning with my red burn deck.

I will definitely consider the creatures you have mentioned to maybe add. Undergrowth Champion would be a good creature in this deck but I feel like I would need 4 of him which would end up costing quite a bit. I definitely want to add 1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger mainboard eventually. Woodland Wanderer I will definitely look more into because as you mentioned it would work well with Shaman of Forgotten Ways

Overall, my main question maybe you can help me out with is, do I have a good mana curve for this type of deck? I ask that because I am literally obsessed with making a perfect mana curve. But yet, does it really need to matter for a ramping deck? Because it seems I have a couple creatures in here just to fix the mana curve a bit, when I should be mainly focusing on what is going to help me win the game.

Mana curve is important as you don't want to flood or get stuck with a bunch of fatties and no way to cast them. I too run 23 lands and about 7-10 rampers. The only thing perhaps would be to try and taper down the high end just a bit. I usually have 4-6 at the 5-spot, 2-3 at the 6-spot and 2 at the 7+ spot. You should be getting close to lethal range by turn 6 or 7 and you should have a few rampers and a fatty by then so at that point burn becomes viable. I think the key is to pack threats all along the curve to stretch out their removal, and the rampers just allow you to play things early. I may be wrong about Knucks as he is a solid defender and can hold the line till you have mana for dropping bombs, as you obviously don't want to have to chump block with a ramper. Blocking a Siege Rhino is important. I think hitting the early land drops are more critical as once you start playing ramp you will automatically be ahead and missing a land drop means you're on par not behind, so I'd rather miss a drop on 3 or 4 then get flooded. of course I also only want to draw one or two fatties a game which is why I mentioned lowering your high end into a slight taper.

It looks solid, you're just gonna have to run through it a few times to get the hang of the best order to play lands in, and I like to see how many turns till lethal assuming no blockers or removal and make sure I'm not snagging at a specific point or overloading on ramp (drawing Rattleclaw late sucks when you're hoping for an Omnath).

Either way I think it's a strong build and you're at a good spot to start play testing. +1 and I hope you enjoy midrange ramp! It's addictive. :)

@Jimmy_Chinchila Okay, with what all you said, I have thought about my creatures and spells a tad more. I think I added in enough threats along the way through each turn. What do you think? Like you said, it will work the tweaks out when I am able to play it and see what little things need to be changed. I added in Woodland Wanderer because I think he will work just fine in this deck with Shaman of Forgotten Ways. I also like the idea of getting Retreat to Coralhelm when I lease expect it. Again, thank you so much for the help and the +1! I can already feel the addiction of the midrange ramp lol..

Ok wow that looks super solid. I'm thinking of modifying my version now, I really really like this list. Well done, very impressive. If you take it to an FNM lemme know how it runs, I think people will have a hard time dealing with it. Perhaps a couple Thunderbreak Regents in the side against removal-heavy decks or Crux of Fates? Elementals and dragons is an awesome duo.

I've seen you feature this deck so much now that I feel compelled to comment.

The major problem I have with this deck is that it seems to be going in 2 different directions. To me, this deck seems like a hybrid of my The Elements Cannot be Braved and zandl's Temur Mid (BFZ). Mine takes a little longer to establish a board presence and therefore is a little more prone to control decks but as soon as it gets rolling, it can't really be stopped. Zandl's is more aggro compared to mine and gets a lot of damage through with his flyers. If I were to suggest just one card, it would be Temur Ascendancy. As zandl explained in his article, Temur Ascendancy is what makes temur ramp from decent to good.

It looks like a good start but went off in too many directions and just became mediocre at all of them

also Jimmy_Chinchila, Thunderbreak Regent doesn't counter Crux of Fate because Crux of Fate doesn't target.

Well, I do not really see what you mean by going in different directions? Because our decks are very similar, but with our "own" flavor of certain creatures and spells. As I mentioned to Jimmy_Chinchila, Savage Knuckleblade is in there so I can have a solid 3 drop come out just in case I am in a rut, I have him to probably drop out until I get my bigger creatures out.

I also have beastcaller savant in here instead of whisperer because I just think he's better because he can tap for any color and he has haste.

Overall, I think I will consider that enchantment that you mentioned. Thanks for your input! ;)

tempest the idea with Thunderbreak Regent actually was to diversify threats between dragons and non-dragons so a Crux of Fate doesn't take out your whole board. It's a strategy thing. Dealing 3 points is not the goal, leaving you a 4/4 flier that Lightning Bolts after a sweeper that kills your Elementals is the goal. Also not everyone reads the articles or knows of the decks that you refer to, so it might be better to suggest someone looks into it rather than assuming it's been purposefully ignored, which is how it came across to me. There's only been one weekend of the new set so no set deck list has been established as dominant within this archetype, so brewing and experimenting are still viable.

Metas vary and the season is young so deeming something mediocre is rather illogical and, frankly, somewhat rude and arrogant. Perhaps it would help if you would also explain why you think it goes in different directions, or what those directions are, or why they are in fact distinctly different directions, or how one could fix the problem, or specific strategy or individual card ideas, or why one direction is better than the other against the main archetypes. Just saying, your advice was kinda mediocre.

That's a valid point. I did write the post in somewhat of a haste so I apologize if it came across as arrogant or rude. I will be more specific with my next post which will have to wait until I get on a computer

Deck is inefficient; needs focus, too many different creatures and spells, land-base could be better. Lose Evolving Wilds and the Island for Lumbering Falls.

Deck has too little speed to be aggro but not enough control to be midrange. In my eyes, it's just a pile of decent creatures and a few haymakers. Needs focus.

@zandl I can see how you would suggest Lumbering Falls, but I have the Evolving Wilds in here to (if possible) Omnath's landfall trigger. My "focus" is to get my mana rampers out and then savage knuckleblade, then Surrak, the Hunt Callernext turn ferocious triggers..then continue on with the next bigger creature. I already know what is mostly out there. But I do not build around decks that are 'winning tournaments'. I build with what I think is good. And if it wins, it wins. I am still going to playtest it and work it's tweaks out that way. Who knows, maybe it won't need tweaks..maybe it's just gonna be that good. lol (being funny + 50% serious)

The main reason why I have a lot of creatures is so I can use See the Unwritten to get out omnath and atarka without paying their cost. Also with Whisperwood Elemental to manifest. I actually do not have a lot of spells. I only have a few because I do not want my spells to be Manifested. This deck is built around the creatures, obviously. Thanks for your input though! :)

Oh and Jimmy_Chinchila I will definitely let you know how this deck does. :D It will probably be next weekend's FnM.

essentially what zandl just said above

I would say that you should still choose dragons or elementals. you'll get more coherence in the deck and have a specific goal or target. then you can construct the sideboard based on the deck's weaknesses. Thunderbreak Regent is a great card. its either something you want or something don't want. there really isn't any specific deck you would side it in against if the deck is modified to be more focused

EDIT: I just read your comment above. If you modify decks based on experience, there's not much we can really say to sway your opinion on an issue like focus. I know I'm not the most reliable person, but I trust zandl's experience in standard to know what he's doing. Regardless, good luck at FNM

@tempest I think I am leaning more towards the Elementals. I do have a few elementals in my deck already though. But once I actually get to play this deck at my FNM, then I can really decide. Playing my deck against other people's net decks just allows me to focus on what I need and what I do not need. There's always a sideboard for cards against types of decks. That's how standard is and will always be. It's competitive and that is how I like to be aswell.

The main question that needs to be answered here is where is the focus then? I must be blind because I do not see how this deck does not make sense when your deck is very similar. I do not want to put your deck down but if you say this how no focus, then yours must not either?

And zandl's deck has a very weird curve. just saying.

I do appreciate the comments though. :D

my deck is built to get Omnath, Locus of Rage out. this deck seems to be built to get creatures out, though if it happens to be omnath or atarka, great! Savage Knuckleblade is a great card. i use Undergrowth Champion instead. its an elemental that builds resistance as i continue to play my deck although it is prone to direct removal. knuckleblade can dodge any removal but requires you to invest that mana which is pretty costly. Sarkhan Unbroken is also great. but i'd rather have Evolutionary Leap because i know i'll have omnath on the field quite often to give me green Lightning Bolts. I'm trying to exploit omnath to its full potential which i'm not seeing here

The curve in my deck is less important because it's all about jamming 4-drops after Temur Ascendancy without needing more than 23 lands.

and of course, if you add explanations of each creature, that'll help us understand your choices and allow us to pinpoint any present faults more easily

@tempest Undergrowth Champion is kind of pricey at the moment, so that is one of the reasons why I am not using him. I will add in Temur Ascendency. I actually never paid attention to that card. I like how it only cost 3 mana to get out and gives creatures haste, especially for a slower deck, this will give it a push. Thanks! :)