[Community Discussion]: Modern Chat
Modern forum
Posted on April 25, 2015, 8:42 p.m. by Epochalyptik
This thread is dedicated entirely to Modern. Feel free to post your thoughts on the meta, ideas for your next decklist, and just chat generally about the format!
Of course, you can always start a new thread if you're interested in discussing one particular aspect of the format; this thread should be used for the quick thoughts and informal questions about the format.
This discussion will be ongoing; you are free to post here as long as you're on topic.
This is NOT a deck help thread. Please do not spam deck help requests.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #4
tlhunter07 why pissed off? I'm excited for the meta shake up, if nothing else. Sure, playing against Jace will get challenging, and Jace just got expensive and even with the reprint it's hard to see it getting cheaper, but I'm still excited to see how things change.
February 12, 2018 2:01 p.m.
Everyone who runs blue: I can't wait to add in jace the mindsculptor
Everyone who runs jund: Cant wait for bloodbraid elf back in the deck
Everyone else: Stupid R&D what are you doing?!?!?!?!??!!?!?!
February 12, 2018 2:05 p.m.
Well, the Me is more like: Why cant my Mardu have Stoneforge.....
February 12, 2018 2:48 p.m.
Modern was not broken, so why is Wizards trying to fix it? Oh yeah, so they can sell TONS of Jace, the Mind Sculptor in Masters 25. And of course they're so good at evaluating busted cards, so there's no way this could possibly break something. I mean, just look at how well they've done with Standard over the last couple years.
Sigh ...
February 12, 2018 3:05 p.m.
tlhunter07 says... #8
First of all, Modern was the healthiest it's ever been, an this is the first time I have been truly happy with Modern. Second, I'm 90% certain that they only unbanned Jace to get sales on M25. Third, I obviously don't want to buy back in. 2-3 Jaces could mean 250-400 dollars that I don't have, as I'm still in school.
February 12, 2018 3:20 p.m.
I actually figured the opposite is true--that they decided to return Jace before creating M25, and Jace's inclusion therein is a direct result of his inevitable return to Modern. Say what you will about the meta, and Wizards' ability to read and accurately judge banning, but I have never felt they've made a decision just to sell cards.
February 12, 2018 3:27 p.m.
tlhunter07 says... #10
The unbanning of Jace and the reprinting of Jace are directly linked. Whichever was done first, at least a part of it was to sell an exorbitant amount of M25.
February 12, 2018 3:36 p.m.
cdkime,
I actually feel they always make their decisions just to sell cards. But I'm OK with that, honestly. They're a business, and if they don't sell cards they won't stay in business and I won't get to play the game I love.
But it still makes me sigh :-)
February 12, 2018 3:57 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #12
tlhunter07 I respectively reply, Are you out your fucking mind???!??! Modern is filled with annoying to play against parasite decks currently. Lantern Control, Ponzu, Mill, Infinte Turns, Death & Taxes, Eldrazi (sadly I must admit Eldrazi isn't the biggest offender on this list)
All of these decks save Eldrazi are very non-interactive when functioning and none of them are very fun to play against. When the best deck in the format successfully has no other wincon but to lock you out of playing until you mill yourself there is a glaring issue.
February 12, 2018 3:58 p.m. Edited.
tlhunter07,
It's a totally minor thing, but A25 is the official code for Masters 25 ... I have no idea why.
February 12, 2018 3:59 p.m. Edited.
I'm okay with that also, I just never have felt it is the primary focus of their bannings. I genuinely think Mr. Rosewater and friends care about the state of their game, and make decisions based upon what they feel best. While profits are, and should be, a consideration in that decision, I take issue with the assertion that they are they "only unbanned" a card to make money.
Just wanted to clear up my stance some!
February 12, 2018 4:02 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ,
I'm also in the camp that thinks Modern's great. I mean, it's ALWAYS been a format of busted decks that some people find amazing and some find hateful. But what's great about the format at this point is that on any given weekend, almost ANY of those busted decks can spike a tournament. I love it.
I assume you're in a camp that wants to only play a single particular type of busted deck. I'm sorry. ;-)
February 12, 2018 4:06 p.m. Edited.
tlhunter07 says... #16
APPLE01DOJ, I respectively reply that no, I am not. Modern may not be fun to play for some, but it's balanced. A balanced format is a healthy format
February 12, 2018 4:15 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #17
APPLE01DOJ where do you get those decks from? Lantern control may have just won a PT, but it's current meta share is about 1.5% according to mtggoldfish. It is not the best deck right now. Either Tron or Death's Shadow is the best deck at the moment.
I don't know that Mill or turns have any meaningful meta share. Ponza and Eldrazi and Tron I agree are frequently unfun decks to play against. However I don't see them going anywhere anytime soon, especially because these unbannings promote decks that ponza, Tron, and Eldrazi prey upon.
In other news, I wonder if BBE could make big Naya zoo playable again. I'm thinking wild nacatl, Noble hierarch, goyf, scooze, qasali pridemage, voice of resurgence, loxodon smiter, KOTR, and BBE. Or something along those lines.
February 12, 2018 4:21 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #18
Clay, don't make assumptions to some one else's reasoning, I actually play a good variance of decks. I just don't feel like the current meta (prior to the one were about to enter) is "healthy" for modern. In fact I feel it's probably the worst meta for modern since I've been playing and I've played through DRS, Pod, Twin, Treasure Cruise, & Eye of Ugin eras. Anyway things are going to get shaken up so let's see where it takes us.
Toolmaster, I didn't take those decks from any meta share stat, just speaking from personal experience.
I mean on the plus side of the current meta, I'm quite fond of mono-u Living End
February 12, 2018 5:12 p.m. Edited.
APPLE01DOJ says... #19
So playing against Jace Miracles which can go off as early as turn 2. I can already see the insane power behind this card. Not really sure how to handle it beyond landing a Thoughtseize or packing some Pithing Needle.
February 12, 2018 6:24 p.m.
elpokitolama says... #20
@APPLE01DOJ actually, I'll bring my version of U-End saturday at GP Lyon, let me know if you're interested in my results there :)
I don't think miracles is going anywhere in modern... Jace is going to take two slots in every blue deck of the format (but infect and Storm obviously :p)
February 12, 2018 6:30 p.m.
@APPLE01DOJ How does it go off turn two? You mean just randomly hitting terminus? Or telling time? It's not a combo deck, it doesn't really go off.
February 12, 2018 6:45 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #22
By go off I mean they can lock you out of the game turn 2. Temporal Mastery into Day's Undoing into Exhaustion into Jace, the Mind Sculptor or another turn into you might as well scoop at this point.
The particular build I played against also ran As Foretold to gain advantage while youre not capable of doing anything and Chandra, Torch of Defiance for mana ramp and board control.
February 12, 2018 7:06 p.m. Edited.
Well... that's interesting. But that's also not gonna start until their turn 3 as they need the second land in play for temporal mastery. Also don't think that's going to be a very common deck choice, mono blue as fortold is super rare to run into.
February 12, 2018 7:26 p.m.
Dredge4life says... #25
elpokitolama Mono U Eldrazi Tron would like a word with you.
But yeah, Jace is going to hit Modern really hard in the next few weeks.
February 12, 2018 8:41 p.m.
elpokitolama says... #26
@Dredge4life Actually, I have yet to lose against a tron deck since I picked the deck up... This match up is as favorable to blue end as blue end is easy to beat for humans :p
February 13, 2018 7:52 a.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #27
elpokitolama I have had zero difficulty in Comp Leagues against Mono U End. Chalice on zero plus counterspells and relics give me plenty of tools to feel confident against the deck. I'm sure against other flavors of Tron, U End is favorable but certainly not against Blue Ruin.
February 13, 2018 9:01 a.m.
Dredge4life says... #28
elpokitolama I was referring to every U deck running Mindsculptor. U Tron doesnt want it.
February 13, 2018 9:20 a.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #29
U Tron may run it as a funOF. I'll be testing it at the very least. Free Brainstorm is definitely worth testing.
February 13, 2018 9:50 a.m.
Dredge4life says... #30
Its not free though. Most lists only run 7-8 islands. Getting two reliably on turn four while trying to advance your game plan seems difficult. I guess it depends on whether youre playing the Eldrazi version.
February 13, 2018 10:52 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #31
Dredge4life U-Tron can easily get 2 islands by turn 4. Their game plan is typically to control the board not assemble Tron as quickly as possible. In addition, they probably wouldn't tap out turn 4 but rather wait until they can protect it.
I've never encountered it, is Eldrazi U-Tron a new thing?
February 13, 2018 11:08 a.m. Edited.
UrbanAnathema says... #32
It's my pet deck that I've put up some results with that some folks have been picking up.
BLUE RUIN TRON
Modern
SCORE: 83 | 49 COMMENTS | 15395 VIEWS | IN 47 FOLDERS
February 13, 2018 11:19 a.m.
Dredge4life says... #33
APPLE01DOJ Two islands by turn four is harder than you think. You could get there by cracking your maps, but it seems like a waste. By the time you get to two U sources your payoffs are just so much better anyway. I feel that Jace wont do enough for the mana cost, in that early game you need to stay alive, and I dont think Jace does a great job of helping you do that. Late game Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and Wurmcoil Engine are much more potent at ending the game.
U Eldrazi Tron is a list originally made by Ross Meriam, and is the current version of U Tron that Im running. It swaps the creatures and random one-ofs for Thought-Knot Seer and Matter Reshaper. The payoff is Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger found with Conduit of Ruin. Its a relatively new innovation, but in my experience its significantly stronger than the non-Eldrazi list.
February 13, 2018 2:21 p.m.
Temporal mastery into Sundial into Exhaustion? Sounds like magical Christmas land, especially in a world of Thoughtsieze!
February 13, 2018 2:24 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #35
No one said into Sundial of the Infinite and consider it christmas land or not it's exactly what happened to me.
February 13, 2018 2:31 p.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #36
For having played U-Tron for a while, I can indeed say that the deck has very few interest in having JTMS in the list. Turn 4 should either be untapped lands for control spells OR Tron online and a big nasty dude in play.
February 13, 2018 3:07 p.m.
Ive seen a lot of discussion both here, and on the modern Reddit forums, discussing playing JTMS turn four.
Unless you are in an extremely commanding board position, or an extremely shitty board position and your only out is to try and bait your opponent into killing your JTMS, or some plan regarding terminus (either it being in your hand or you needing to find it in the top 3), you dont want to slam jtms down on turn 4.
The times you DO want to play him:
your opponent had 1-2 creatures on board who cannot kill jtms (mana dorks)
your opponent has 1-2 creatures on board who cannot kill jtms if you bounce one of them (one mana dork and one threat)
board is clear and you dont lose to combo if you tap out
board is full of enemy dudes and you need to find a sweeper, and your opponent cant just alpha you
you can protect him via t1-3 creatures
In this case, mono u tron would almost never be trying to slam a jtms t4, so having two islands t4 isnt really a concern.
February 13, 2018 3:23 p.m.
Dredge4life says... #38
My point is more that JTMS is only really useful on turn 4 or 5, because Jace is an incrimental value card. Slamming him at a time when you could be slamming Wurmcoil Engine or Sundering Titan is just not good enough. U Tron needs all of its threats to end the game in short order, and Jace doesnt get it done fast enough. Early game, you probably cant cast him, because you either need to control the board/ramp to stage three/dont have the mana. Other decks like Jeskai work for Jace, because they can cast him and protect him, but hes just a liability for U Tron.
February 13, 2018 3:34 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #39
Hello friends. I have returned. I'm quite glad to see JTMS unbanned. I think it opens a lot of potential for some decks outside of Jeskai. I'd be curious to try him in an Esper or U/B list.
February 13, 2018 7:21 p.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #40
Dredge4life You know Ross Merriam was piloting my deck right? Lol I'm the creator of the deck.
February 13, 2018 9:51 p.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #41
I assume you discovered the list from his feature of one of my 5-0s with the deck.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/35803_Daily-Digest-When-Two-Trons-Collide.html
February 13, 2018 9:51 p.m. Edited.
UrbanAnathema says... #43
tlhunter07 LOL! Hey I didn't brew up a deck and put up results with it to let the pros get all the credit. In all fairness though Dredge4life I'm always happy to learn about more folks picking up the deck and enjoying success with it. Happy to assist with any feedback you might like in the future.
February 13, 2018 10:57 p.m.
Agreed, CanadianShinobi. Just finished building an Esper geist list, and happen to have a FTV 20 JtMS to slot in. I do need gather some capital for another car paym- i mean Jace. The most annoying thing is predicting whether he's gonna gey rebanned or not.
February 14, 2018 12:53 a.m.
I would be really surprised if Jace, the Mind Sculptor wouldn't be a victim of meta banning some time in the future.
The card is just too oppressive.
Yes, its no good against storm, and the like. But against midrange decks its a single card win condition - compared to 2 card win conditions like the twin combo. If it gets topdecked the game is close to being over.
The card's main problem is that all its abilities are great, and the use of them costs close to nothing (unlike the deal 4 damage to target creature on Chandra, Torch of Defiance, or the edict on Liliana of the Veil).
If you are not behind, jace can play as a 1 card lantern control deck. Fateseal is no joke! (by the way that is his +2 ability)
If you are behind it can get you answers, bounce the biggest threat (which is good enough against many decks), or at worst be a target that the opponent must destroy, so they will attack jace instead of you.
(which in effect is very similar to one of Cryptic Command's modes - the main difference is that its not an instant, but it also only needs UU2, instead of UUU1)
The card simply enables Uxx control decks to wipe the floor with midrange decks. If the said deck is the draw-go control variety it can handle tron fine, then add fateseal 1 to the mix, and it seems just absurd.
All in all the cards will likely lead to all sorts of T3 decks becoming a very large part of the meta, everything that struggles against them will suffer (tron decks for example), and midrange will either play jace or it will have to a lot of slots to beating it (thanks to card filtering that is incidentally plentyfull in blue) - losing % in other matchups.
February 14, 2018 7:52 a.m.
Theres been more than a few videos released recently pitting Uwx Jace vs Bloodbraid Jund, and i dont think BBE is quite the counterbalance you belive she is...
February 14, 2018 9:59 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #47
Anyone have a good sample list of draw-go Jace control? Preferably Jeskai, UW, or Esper. I'm looking for something to test against to see how powerful Jace can be if played correctly.
February 14, 2018 11:06 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #48
ToolmasterOfBrainerd I'm working on something. I'll tag you when it's done, for old times sake and the like :p
February 14, 2018 11:24 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #49
February 14, 2018 11:25 a.m.
elpokitolama says... #50
@CanadianShinobi I hope these unbans will bring back some other old T/O users we haven't seen in a while... Good ol' JC1-2-3 team has left the site for a year now. x)
But now I need two Jaces for my UW Living End list. Dude's fitting perfectly as the alternate win con the deck desperatly needs.
Nef says... #1
Holy moly
February 12, 2018 11:25 a.m.