Quicken, why isn't it a thing?
General forum
Posted on Sept. 16, 2013, 9:46 a.m. by strateupjee
So I personally love the card Quicken and it has seen no play whatsoever, now I understand that things like American and U/W don't need it due to only running 3-4 sorceries, Verdict. However, in other decks like Grixis and U/B, I don't understand why no one uses it. There is no loss of card in hand due to the cycle, it only costs 1 mana, and from there you can cast any sorcery at instant speed, is there a downside I'm not seeing?
Usually there is a better card to play, for example in the last standard Think Twice was a better card because this mostly becomes a card you cycle more than actually use for it's abilities. In this next standard, It might become a thing, because the draw cantrips aren't there like this, Thoughtseize before you declare blockers could be interesting.
In some tourney's where I was there to play for fun, I've used it and playing it into a verdict was fun, but not that important, cause I would have done it the turn before anyways. But it never has played that well to make it a must have.
In this current standard, grixis shouldn't be running many sorceries either, especially since hero's downfall will do the same as Quicken into Dreadbore for the same cost and an easier mana cost, 1BB vs UBR. Ok, sure an end of turn Rakdos's Return might be interesting also, but still not necessary.
fate foretold might be a better draw than Quicken in theros. The B Read the bones also probably will see more play.
In short there are better cards and it's effects aren't that great, you may have more choices, like save the mana for a kill spell when they attack or cast some sorcery now. But to add 1 to the cmc for the sorcery is usually a problem.
September 16, 2013 10:13 a.m.
strateupjee says... #5
But my thing is when you are playing control, which is where you would play it, you don't want to do anything on your turn, you want to land pass unless you are playing a threat that is going to start winning you the game, so I would think it would be a big factor in allowing them to do that, save for a counter, you didn't do anything? cool quicken read the bones draw a card then scry 2 draw 2, I mean you have the resources and the time, in control you make them play something, you are always responding, and so playing it allows you to not have to tap out, or even tap at all, on your turn to play a sorcery to answer something, and if adding 1 to the cost is such a big deal when casting it, then you always have the option of just not doing it and casting it on your turn and holding quicken as a cycle for 1 blue
September 16, 2013 10:21 a.m.
"There is no loss of card in hand due to the cycle, it only costs 1 mana, and from there you can cast any sorcery at instant speed, is there a downside I'm not seeing?"
@strateupjee: You make a few somewhat valid points, though your logic is a bit skewed.
"There is no loss of card in hand due to the cycle, ..."
True. However, any time you cycle a card that has other abilities (i.e. Azorius Charm , etc.), you have to understand that you're trading a known card and ability for an unknown card off the top. Cycling a card always replaces the card itself, but not always the card's value.
"... you can cast any sorcery at instant speed, ..."
In Grixis (where you think it would be best), what is really sorcery-speed that gets better as an Instant? Dreadbore is the only thing I could even remotely see being worth it. And even then, it's Murder since it's 3 mana (since you'd almost never hit a Planeswalker on THEIR turn, unless they play one. At any rate, the first ability will still go off without you being able to kill it beforehand). Barter in Blood ? So you're turning Barter in Blood into an Instant for 2BBU? Sounds an awful lot like Far / Away , which is the better card anyways.
What a lot of people don't understand is that Grixis doesn't have to be the deck that taps out to control the opponent. I ran Grixis to some pretty good success a before M14 and I only had 6 Sorcery-speed spells (2 Dreadbore , 4 Pillar of Flame ).
In conclusion, the biggest reason why Quicken doesn't see play is because, generally, the Flash-ability doesn't matter. There are Instant versions of most Sorcery spells out there that DON'T require you to play a mediocre-at-best can-trip to use them to full effect.
September 16, 2013 10:40 a.m.
This card may see more play as scry comes into play. Omenspeaker into Quicken. Casting sorceries at instant speed isn't nearly as helpful as paying one mana to draw a card.
September 16, 2013 10:44 a.m.
There's also the notion that drawing any amount of cards is a good thing. If you just dump a card to draw a card, then you're already behind. You spent mana to use a card to get to the next one.
September 16, 2013 10:48 a.m.
However (and I didn't finish my post), Cycling is usually a fall-back ability (like with Azorius Charm ). "I won't be using Azo-Charm in the control mirror? Might as well draw a card."
It just bugs me when people run things like Visions of Beyond when they aren't milling anyone, and their reasoning is "It draws you a card."
September 16, 2013 10:50 a.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #10
Quicken is more suited for EDH. I use it in my mill deck because my opponent runs Sin Collector and Vizkopa Confessor
September 16, 2013 11:41 a.m.
strateupjee says... #11
Very valid points and I agree to an extent, however I do feel that it could see play just because we are losing draw power and there are some spells that you do want to make instant, I don't know anyone playing control that wants to Read the Bones on their turn, for example, because you will be leaving 3 open to counter, so it does open up possibilities, but I know why it doesn't see play, I just wanted to see if anyone knew of anyone using it and doing well
September 16, 2013 11:53 a.m.
Quicken is best used to stop arguments when doing a miracle on their turn ;p
September 16, 2013 12:14 p.m.
If you quicken a cipher spell, does it become copied as an instant?
September 16, 2013 1:43 p.m.
ciphered spells only resolved at the end of combat.
September 16, 2013 1:46 p.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #15
That's actually a neat trick.
Declare blocks? No blocks? In response cast Quicken , then cast a cipher spell, encoding it onto the unblocked creature for another free spell
September 16, 2013 3:38 p.m.
i like the Quicken cypher combo. Now, where can one get maximum abuse from it.
September 16, 2013 4:13 p.m.
Quicken + Shadow Slice seems fairly detrimental, though the only problem I see arising from that combo is you'd have to play Shadow Slice .
And Quicken .
D=
September 16, 2013 6:43 p.m.
it is a thing. i play blue/black control. and in my deck...
quicken + read the bones = black sphinx's revelation.
its the most broken shit ever i dont know why its unknown. i dont even need to play white for sphinx because i have black sphinx now. enjoy:)
October 22, 2013 4:24 p.m.
SharuumNyan says... #20
People are using Quicken now, mainly in UW Control.
October 22, 2013 4:31 p.m.
MinscAndBoo says... #21
Or how about Quicken + Mind Rot at the end of a control player's turrn? Instant speed discard seems OK!
Quicken + Thoughtseize at the end of their draw step :)
October 22, 2013 5:02 p.m.
The problem with Quicken and Thoughtseize is that you want to steal something from your opponent's hand before they get a chance to play it.
October 22, 2013 5:18 p.m.
In my Grixis control deck the following are sorceries in which would benefit:
There isn't a single sorcery spell that doesn't benefit from becoming instant speed. At the same time, you need to consider if the slot is worthy. While I would enjoy being able to cast Anger of the Gods during their turn allowing me to have my full mana on my turn it isn't needed. Cards like Rewind allow me to bypass that. Even if you put no effort into avoiding it, you shouldn't be too affected. Why not just Disintegrate or Drain Life during my turn? It has very rarely been needed for those spells to be instant speed. The only spell I can think off is Dreadbore and a last second mass removal with Anger of the Gods .
To put it in short, I'd rather draw a Lightning Bolt , Counterspell or Snapcaster Mage than a Quicken . It just seems like Quicken is way too situational for me.
October 22, 2013 6:08 p.m.
Grimgrinner says... #24
Quicken into a cipher spell seems good, except for the fact that almost all cipher spells are terribly overcosted and / or don't impact anything really.
the only useful thing i've seen noted here is Quicken + Thoughtseize , which would be quite flexible indeed. Its not really worth having to have to two cards though.
clunie, How is Quicken + Read the Bones equal to a Sphinx's Revelation ? I don't really see it.
Btw, Is anybody seeing any older formats having potential for Quicken? Modern? Legacy? I can already see SOME edh application, especially with Tooth and Nail or tutors that put a card on top of the deck. Still, situational at best but it's something.
November 4, 2013 10:13 p.m.
It saw some play as a one of in uw control, for their turn verdicts
also I run foil quicken in edh, as a legacy cantrip its horrible comoared to ponder, brainstorm, preordain, and mana is usually a much more precious element youd rather not waste for the slight advantage gaijed by a their turn thoughtseize imo. Doing to much to hinder them will hinder you
November 4, 2013 10:30 p.m.
I've recently started Playing around with it in the mill version of my esper control deck
Heisenberg mill version 11-1-13
. The value is not in being able to cast sorceries as instants, the value is in card draw. The deck desperately needs to dig for answers. Is that the best solution over something that has scry (like Omenspeaker )? I don't know, but quicken puts the card in my hand and that's something I like when digging for one if the 6 wraths in the deck.
November 4, 2013 11:39 p.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #27
Quicken into Whispering Madness on an unblocked Circu, Dimir Lobotomist is plain evil. Exile 5 cards from Circu and we end up wheeling our hands twice. Tell me that isn't annoying as fuck.
November 5, 2013 7:43 a.m.
I run Quicken in my Spellheart Chimera deck simply because it replaces itself and pumps up the goat thing, though I'm not sure if 1-for-1 is worth it.. What do you guys think about Inspiration instead?
November 5, 2013 2:51 p.m.
Aerokid too slow and mana intensive for me. At 4CMC you have Jace and at 5+CMC you have the sphinx rev
November 5, 2013 2:58 p.m.
Apoptosis true, though there are literally no other U/R instant speed draw spells. Guess I'll stick to Quicken .
November 5, 2013 5:04 p.m.
If you have a few sorceries that are worth while playing, I can see some limited uses
Adding it to Omenspeaker or Dissolve , etc, you can ensure you get a good draw, possibly ignoring the Sorcery casting option all together, and simply turning into a cantrip.
I can see a R/U scry deck using this to make removal instant speed (Mizzium Mortars / Anger of the Gods ?)
And . . . I wouldn't mind seeing someone do an instant speed Epic Experiment in a Young Pyromancer deck.
TurboFagoot says... #2
I mean it's pretty funny in Legacy storm.
"In response to your Tendrils Storm trigger, Quicken, Tendrils. GG?"
But that's not really realistic lol
September 16, 2013 9:56 a.m.