|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Commander 2017 (C17)||Mythic Rare|
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Mythic Rare|
|Conspiracy (CNS)||Mythic Rare|
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- Question about Control and losing the game.
- With Marchesa, the Black Rose work with creature tokens?
- If a player board wipes while Marchesa is in play, can you still return creatures to the battlefield?
- Marchesa, the Black Rose and Undying
- How does Living Death work with Zombie Mikaeus and Marchesa?
Marchesa, the Black Rose
Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
Dethrone *(Whenever this creature attacks the player with the most life or tied for most life, put a +1/+1 counter on it.) *
Other creatures you control have dethrone.
Whenever a creature you control with a +1/+1 counter on it dies, return that card to the battlefield under your control at the beginning of the next end step.
Commander Recommendations Start Commander Deck
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Marchesa, the Black Rose Discussion
1 day ago
Depending on your color/s these are what I would go with personally. My favorite choice is marchesa.
3 color- Marchesa, the Black Rose
4 color- Saskia the Unyielding
5 color- Morophon, the Boundless
Interestingly morophon allows you to play another phoenix. Worldheart Phoenix
2 days ago
I don't like the idea of being mono red. Jori En, Ruin Diver would work out nicely because Phoenix's always find a way back to your hand or battlefield so there's a place for good card advantage with Jori En, Ruin Diver .
Marchesa, the Black Rose would work nicely too for the added recurring resilience that Phoenix's already have. Marchesa also is in some strong color's with black and blue
1 week ago
Secondly, when it comes to casual commander, the one thing I have learnt is that as a general rule, people suck at deckbuilding. That's not a dig at anyone in particular, but the common theme I notice is that people just don't want to devote deck slots to things like ramp or card advantage. They want to play all of the big, splahsy spells and as such their deck suffers. This especially goes for white. White has some very powerful creatures with quite board altering effects, however to offset it they are expensive to play.
Yet time and time again I see decks ruuning really heavy curves with minimal ramp or card advantage and then people wondering why their deck is running slowly. But they don't want to cut the big, fun spells to actually make their deck work properly. Again, I don't see how that is the fault of the colour pie.
This is where our experiences differ, and I can't refute what you have experienced with the format, and it's perfectly valid. It's just not what I've experienced. "Casual" commander, in my experience, involves crazy infinite combos, huge board presence, artifact ramp, etc. When I go down to my LGS to play commander night, and a guy sits down with Marchesa, the Black Rose , I can expect him to combo off turns 4-6 if nobody stops him. That's "casual", as I've experienced it. And that's not even a very optimized combo commander imo.
Within my personal playgroup, we tend not to be that... aggressive about our deckbuilding, because we do like big splashy spells, but we understand that we need to ramp into those spells for them to be viable. Even then things can happen, I can drop Bolas's Citadel turn 3-4, reveal Aetherflux Reservoir and just go off.
Now onto decks that are playing good artifact integration and yet are still falling behind, how many of these are then leveraging the stax effects that white offers? Because again, if you're not slwoing your opponents down because you choose to not run certain cards because they are "unfun", then that's on you.
The issue here isn't with "unfun" necessarily, it's with making yourself a target. With the level of decks I'm used to going up against, if I just drop a Rule of Law , I can expect that I probably won't get another turn this game. Because the moment I throw that on the stack, I have sent the message to the rest of the table that if they don't kill me ASAP, they have no chance. I do tend to run some of White's stax-type effects in my white decks, but I can't include too many or they'll clog up my hand because honestly, the important part with these kinds of cards in EDH isn't the deckbuilding, so much as it is the play sequencing. You have to play around the fact that these cards turn your opponents against you, and if you aren't prepared to deal with a 3v1, playing these cards will kill you.
I'm sure that there are some good white decks that still get outpaced by their bretheren of different colours. But at the end of the day, you're never going to strike a perfect symmerty with all colours and all commanders across all levels of play within a format.
This I agree with. The game will never be perfectly balanced. But as eternal formats go, the disparity between White/Red and Blue/Green/Black in EDH seems significantly larger than color disparity in other formats imo. It's enough that I've watched newbies catch on to it pretty fast. People with no previous knowledge of the format, getting into it, and figuring out that White is just bad.
Arcane Signet and a few other "command zone" based cards are not relevant in any format where there is no commander, however the kind of white based ramp you're descibing wouldn't fall within this.
Perhaps I've described it poorly then, because Arcane Signet is exactly what I want. I want to see it printed more, and I want to see more cards like it. It alone, in my experience in the short time I've had to play around with it, has done wonders to help close the gap on ramp between colors. It's actually better than most green ramp cards, unless your deck cares about lands specifically. Arcane Signet is available to all decks of all colors (barring mono-colorless), and provides colored ramp for 2. For green decks, this is often a slightly worse Nature's Lore . For decks weaker in ramp like White, it's just great. The closest comparison I can even find for it in White is Marble Diamond . And wow. Just wow.
give white some more powerful stax effects, preferably ones that got stronger based on the number of player still in the game
This is a pretty cool idea though! I'm not sure how this would work out exactly, but I'd be interested to see something like Undaunted becoming a White thing, as opposed to a one-off single-cycle throwaway keyword. The idea of fending off multiple foes at once has always been a pretty White concept imo, with cards like Guardian of the Gateless , Grasp of Fate , etc. It seems kind of ironic to me though that White would then struggle in a multiplayer format.
3 weeks ago
Marchesa, the Black Rose - Her ability enables permanent theft even out of temporary theft effects like Act of Treason or Sower of Temptation . If it has a +1+1 counter when it dies, it goes to its owner's grave til end of turn, then comes back permanently under your control.
3 weeks ago
I second Marchesa, the Black Rose .
Steal your opponent's creature and attack opponent with the highest life total. The stolen creature gains dethrone from Marchesa so it gets a +1/+1 counter when it attacks. Sac the stolen creature, it dies, but since it had a counter it comes back onto the battlefield under your control at your end step.
3 weeks ago
Sure, I'm at 100 cards. But we've a huge situation after all those cuts that should've changed the meter. Is it not meant to be fixed?
Whatever, this is Deck 1 that although at 100 Cards, I just don't see enough consistency for this to work properly. Here is what I believe to be the best of each:
Cloudblazer (Card Advantage & Life Gain? OH YEAH!) Daxos of Meletis (Just buff him once, & only spot removal & wraths can end him.) Deputy of Acquittals (Another Venser when we need it.) Fiend Hunter (How did this make it in?) Grand Abolisher (This is the best we got for Lockdown.) Kambal, Consul of Allocation (Taxes for casting nothing but anything not a Creature.) Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis (Group Hug? Not here. Two Benevolent Kings will destroy you.) Lavinia, Azorius Renegade (I wonder if she can do well w/ Kynalos and Tino... Oh, & STACKS.) Marchesa, the Black Rose (It's either you have low life or this stays cut.) Why didn't you decrease for me cuttung a staple like Meren?! (Uh, Recursion?) Mother of Runes (Ditched Cartel Aristocrat as at least she can be used on any of my Humans.) Reflector Mage (Still on the bend on this one.) Thalia, Heretic Cathar (Uh, Stax?) Thalia's Lieutenant (HUGE Boost throughout my humans.) Trophy Mage (At least most of my "Trophies" are Cast.)
Kenrith, the Returned King : (Recursion, Life gain, +1/+1 Buffs, Card Advantage, even giving everyone Haste & Trample is awesome. DO NOT CUT IT.)
I hope this helps in case you want to improve on this also. Signing out.
1 month ago
It's a good start! You might like these: Fleshbag Marauder , Merciless Executioner , Plaguecrafter , Cauldron of Souls , Spark Double , Seize the Day , Smothering Abomination , Marchesa, the Black Rose , Firemind Vessel (gets your general out 2 turns early), Worn Powerstone , Sisay's Ring , Ur-Golem's Eye , Palladium Myr , Fool's Demise , Capital Punishment
1 month ago
I play a lot of +1/+1 counter decks and I've tried a lot of commanders for the strategy, including some of my favorites; Marath, Will of the Wild , Marchesa, the Black Rose , Ezuri, Claw of Progress (which uses, weirdly, a lot of the same creatures as UG enchantress, minus the bogles), and I bet I could make a really weird, cool one with Feather, the Redeemed using Heroic + a lot of Support and other +1-counter-related spells. We'll see.
I also play a lot of aristocrats, my favorite commanders for that being Meren of Clan Nel Toth (who my spikier friends were quite concerned about), Korvold, Fae-Cursed King (who is very easy to just pop off with), and Reyhan, Last of the Abzan partnered with Ravos, Soultender (yes, that's a +1 counter deck too but it's more of an aristocrat deck)
I also have a Roon of the Hidden Realm blink deck, Sygg, River Cutthroat and Daxos of Meletis decks that focus on combat triggers, a Tiana, Ship's Caretaker aura deck, a Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer token deck, an Emmara, Soul of the Accord tap tribal deck that is sad beans after losing Paradox Engine , an Aminatou, the Fateshifter topdeck matters/trading permanents deck, an Odric, Lunarch Marshal keyword tribal deck, a Feldon of the Third Path deck (you can guess what it does), a Karlov of the Ghost Council voltron deck (yes, you heard me right), and a WUBRG Nekusar, the Mindrazer deck headed by King Kenrith himself!
That being said, my decks haven't been upgraded in a while. Most of them still hold up, but we'll see. Maybe I'll make some alterations.
Marchesa, the Black Rose occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%
UBR (Grixis): 0.53%