Are Mana-Generating Artifacts Really that Much of a Problem in EDH?

Commander (EDH) forum

Posted on July 30, 2018, 8:46 p.m. by DemonDragonJ

WotC said that they printed Treasure Nabber as an answer to the prevalence of mana-generating artifacts in EDH, but I was not aware that that was a problem, as such cards are staples of this format. Not a single player to whom I have spoken has ever complained about mana-generating artifacts in EDH, so I can only presume that a small but vocal minority made a fuss about them.

What does everyone else say? Are mana-generating artifacts an actual problem in EDH, or is this an instance of WotC fixing something that is not broken?

Megalomania says... #2

No. But I also don't see anything wrong with Treasure Nabber. It offers interaction with artifact-based decks. That's all.

July 30, 2018 9:09 p.m.

DrukenReaps says... #3

Fast mana can be a problem for slow decks. You either just accept that someone will out race you now and then or speed up your deck. I wouldn't really call it a problem though... I think most "problems" are solved when people run more and better removal or other answers.

July 30, 2018 9:24 p.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #4

I can guarantee now that any player who summons a treasure nabber will instantly be targeted by every other player in the game; at the very least, I will make that player and that creature my highest priority if one is ever summoned.

I do hope that WotC soon makes a mechanic that prevents a permanent from being controlled by any player other than its owner; why has there never been such a mechanic in this game?

With that being said, why does Homeward Path affect only creatures? What reason is there for it to not affect all permanents?

July 30, 2018 9:34 p.m.

Megalomania says... #5

There are other cards that let you gain back control of permanents that were stolen from you, Brand being one of them.

I think it’s a fun card. And I don’t even use . You guys need to relax

July 30, 2018 9:39 p.m.

ERoss8 says... #6

I don’t think Wizards needed to give an explanation, and by doing so, they caused this issue. The card itself is perfectly fine. You get to catch up a bit when someone gets off to a fast start. Enough people draw their Sol Ring, you benefit the most, unless they use it to kill the napper. Sure it can be nuts, especially with Sundial of the Infinite (I think this interaction works), but in some playgroups (probably those with a lot of green), this will be a non-factor that maybe gets a sol ring. It’s a perfectly fine way for red decks to catch up a bit on mana, imo

July 30, 2018 11:45 p.m.

AMuteCrypt says... #7

It is worth noting that what you see as an issue that needs an answer and what WOTC sees as an issue that needs an answer are two different things. For you, something is an issue if it makes the game unfun for you to play. For WOTC, something is an issue if it makes the game unfun for the majority of people or causes extreme similarities between decks/games. This second point is why they have shied away from tutors, for instance - the more you tutor, the more often you will have a particular set of specific cards, so games become the same. The Nabber is similar - mana rocks are almost always run. Under current design paradigms, "everyone running a bunch of similar/identical cards" (Sol Ring, Signets, and so on) is an issue that needs an answer.

July 31, 2018 6:55 a.m.

Gleeock says... #8

What he said... The universal nature of rocks is "an issue", and how often has the "1st turn sol ring" gotten various outrageous reactions? Not much of an issue though, this is a fun, interactive card that reinforces parity stops non-interactive combos such as paradox engine storm, and many walking ballista infinite mana reservoirs. Also, it GIVES THE ROCKS BACK, it seems like certain people are not reading this line of text (or the flavor text ;) ). For those of us that don't like the setback (long games) of multiple removals this is a godsend. I personally have never been crazy about using resources to take a step back while others advance... but borrowing or redirecting resources is a different story. AND AGAIN... YOU DON'T NEED brand or homeward... because you are getting your resources back on your turn, unless the player uses them with a sac. outlet, in which case that IS dickish but that is on the deckbuilder, not this card.... also shortsighted since I would like to tap into someone elses' resources repeatedly instead of sac' em

July 31, 2018 10:09 a.m.

Gleeock says... #9

I don't think it is truly "fixing" any problems. Just a cool card.

July 31, 2018 10:11 a.m.

Arvail says... #10

If you're playing at the top of the format, ramp of all kinds is incredibly prevalent; this applies particularly to dorks and rocks. Treasure Nabber doesn't really do much to hamper people playing rocks tho. For that end, people default to Null Rod and Stony Silence.

July 31, 2018 noon

MagicalHacker says... #11

Okay, so since Red Rhystic Ramp is my favorite card of the set, I'm definitely not upset by the card's design at all. Great points made by DrukenReaps and Gleeock.

As for WotC's reasoning, it seems fine to me. They designed this card to take advantage of something most decks do, so this is starting to form/adding to a group of cards that make including mana rocks less "automatic", and I love having people build their decks differently depending on their playstyle and what they see as important inclusions based on how they perceive the environment. If this causes diversity to increase where some people start playing other cards like Wayfarer's Bauble over cards like Darksteel Ingot, that can only be good for the game. Any time cards lose the status of being automatic inclusions for the majority of a format, the format itself sees a surge of diversity, making experiences unique from game to game.

I'm waiting for the format to add "don't let rocks get nabbed" to the list of auto advice of the format like "always pay the 1" and "never pick time".

July 31, 2018 5:29 p.m.

Nearly every viable build uses at the very least Sol Ring, but also commonly Mind Stone, Hedron Archive, Thran Dynamo. Not anything wrong with that, but to some effect it almost forces them to be played to maintain parity. A Turn 1 Sol Ring especially into like a Mind Stone same turn, taxes everyone’s artifact removal from the get-go or else gets you really far ahead. Not to mention Chromatic Lantern in almost every 3+ color deck. This guy super flavorful and probably won’t live a whole turn cycle so will likely just give you a short term access to ramp.

Of course, you could also have a Mycosynth Lattice and a Zuran Orb and steal their lands to then sac...

I like the niche it fills, I think it’ll certainly mix things up and be a solid red staple in a ton of builds. Yes, it’s creation is warranted. No, I don’t think it’ll have too much of an impact. Cool card for me!

July 31, 2018 11:17 p.m.

Coward_Token says... #13

DemonDragonJ: Might not be what you want since it's not permanent agnostic, but Guardian Beast works in this case. (Robot dorks like Palladium Myr are out of luck though.)

August 11, 2018 2:51 p.m.

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