Is Scavenging Ooze Bad for Standard?
Standard forum
Posted on Oct. 8, 2013, 11:31 a.m. by SnowCoveredRevenge
I have never been a fan of reanimator decks, they seem dirty to my sensibilities, yet I have found myself more and more wanting to play one, with cards such as Obzedat's Aid and whip of eberos in standard there are real spells to make this happen. Of course we don't have the wonderful Unburial Rites anymore but we have the Whip.
However I cannot bring myself to build this deck because of a single card.
is it possible for one card to deter an entire archetype?
Should a card that can single handedly (do ooze have hands? furthermore what is the plural for ooze?) stop a vibrant deck building option be allowed in standard?
Now calm down I am not advocating a banning so no need for torches or pitch forks yet. (I think a spoon would be more effective since it is an ooze)
I am simply proposing that the designers of M14 mad a mistake by placing such a raw and powerful card into a standard enviroment with plenty of support and depth for an archetype that ultimately will not see play. it feels reckless and wasteful of spots that could have been dedicated to other methods.
In a world with out Scavenging Ooze I would play a reanimator deck but alas we find ourselves in this world.
...End Rant
What do you think? Am I insane?
vampirelazarus says... #3
First, oozes would be a plural.
Second, let me ask you a question: Did Supreme Verdict ruin creature based aggro decks? No. If you are worried about Scavenging Ooze , run kill spells. I hear good things about Doom Blade and Ultimate Price .
Hell, Lifebane Zombie can even get rid of it.
October 8, 2013 11:39 a.m.
vampirelazarus says... #5
Also, don't let the fear of one card stop you from playing a deck. Every deck has a weakness, and certain cards that will destroy the game plan. Does Pithing Needle make AEtherling a bad card?
October 8, 2013 11:43 a.m.
You're playing black. There are a ton of options for dealing with the ooze: Doom Blade , Hero's Downfall , Devour Flesh , Far / Away , etc.
Don't be scared of a little ooze, no more then Deathrite Shaman anyway (oops, oh Snap!). Haha, you'll be fine.
Hope this helps,
Apop.
P.S. Think about the matchups where you might hit Scavenging Ooze , Selesnya has a ton of amazing 2 drops with Voice of Resurgence and Fleecemane Lion , in that matchup usually they'll run at most 2x Scavenging Ooze , usually out of the sideboard. Don't sweat it. The ooze can be dealt with appropriately.
October 8, 2013 11:46 a.m.
megawurmple says... #7
I see what you're saying, but on the contrary, reanimator would be insanely powerful without a bit of hate in Standard. Hell, look at just about any viable deck in any format and there will be powerful hate. The key part of a solid strategy is getting around that hate. Besides, Scavenging Ooze hitting the table doesn't instantly mean that reanimator dies. It's a good card, but it's not good enough to wreck an entire archetype by itself. One kill spell and the Scavenging Ooze is dead. Given that most black decks run kill spells, it shouldn't be too difficult to get rid of before it can do too much damage to recover from.
October 8, 2013 11:46 a.m.
Scavenging Ooze isn't very good in standard. Junk reanimator was still good at the end of last standard when scavenging ooze was in the format.
October 8, 2013 11:46 a.m.
SnowCoveredRevenge says... #9
I'll give it a shot and then post a list after TNM tonight then see what you guys think?
October 8, 2013 11:53 a.m.
Reanimator was a thing while Deathrite Shaman has been in standard. DRS didn't deter anything, ooze will be interesting, but it shouldn't deter reanimator.
October 8, 2013 11:58 a.m.
SharuumNyan says... #11
Sorry if I sound a bit snarky, but basically what you're saying is "I want to play this one deck archetype, but this one card poses a possible threat. I don't think it's fair that my deck should have any kind of opposition."?
Isn't that what Magic is supposed to be all about?
October 8, 2013 12:08 p.m.
wait what? No one deck masters every other type of deck. Every deck has a bad matchup, the key is to find ways to victory despite bad conditions.
October 8, 2013 12:15 p.m.
I agree with everyone else her. Ooze is a great card, but it dies too...burn it or just kill it. So much removal available you can get rid of it before it's even an issue. Personally, I run ooze to feed off my removal, not just to wreck possible Reanimator. You can deal with it easy enough that you should play whatever you want.
October 8, 2013 12:16 p.m.
There's plenty of options, depending on which support colors you're running. Black itself gives you access to plenty of removal, if you go Esper you have access to counters and Supreme Verdict , and I think I've already seen some Rock lists appearing with Whip of Erebos .
As gufymike said, DRS didn't deter reanimator in Standard and while Scavenging Ooze does add another element of graveyard hate, I don't think it'd stop people either. Junk Rites balanced itself out with ramp and utility and played just about as effective as a midrange deck. The fact that it had access to reanimate targets quicker when there was no hate to worry about was just gravy.
October 8, 2013 12:27 p.m.
I hated playing against Junk rites. It crushed my American control decks every time.
October 8, 2013 12:38 p.m.
RickyHoeppner says... #18
October 8, 2013 1:25 p.m.
build a deck using the ooze, add some Ranger's Guile to the list...watch them squirm when they cant rid of your ooze....
October 8, 2013 1:57 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #20
Until the next turn.
There will alwaysbe a way to trump other cards.
JTMS? I can O-ring him. Doesn't stop him from being a $100+ card.
October 8, 2013 2:09 p.m.
just put a little salt on him, oh wait that's for slugs. Does salt kill ooze? Maybe a shot of penicillin will clear up an ooze problem.
October 8, 2013 2:12 p.m.
notamardybum says... #22
Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze will ruin your day if you play against them with a reanimator deck, but as long as you can keep them off the board you're have a chance
October 8, 2013 2:14 p.m.
SnowCoveredRevenge says... #23
I understand the "There is always an answer to any card" principle, That is a big reason why magic is great, what I am debating is if the answer completely thwarts the threat, why place the threat in the same enviroment.
I get that, but there is a time when one or two cards can overpower. Essentially I am saying that the ooze and Deathrite Shaman are such a threat that you cannot take the risk because if your opponent plays one they will hose you,
Furthermore I am saying that it is irresponsible to put such reanimation spells into an environment when the two greatest repeatable reanimation hosers are in the same standard!
October 8, 2013 2:22 p.m.
megawurmple says... #24
Yes, but that's like saying you shouldn't put boardwipes in a Standard that has Aggro or creature based Midrange decks because the boardwipes hose them. If your deck can't answer the threat of a 2/2, run more removal.
October 8, 2013 2:33 p.m.
SnowCoveredRevenge you are giving too much credit to both. Yes, someone could hypothetically make a deck that runs 4x Scavenging Ooze and 4x Deathrite Shaman , but they are few and far between. You might also come up against someone who has Rest in Peace . The deck you will play is always shaped to at least some extent by the local meta you play in, and you need to adjust accordingly. But every good deck has answers to bad matchups. In short, if they don't they die. Bad matchups will always exist and one of the great things about Magic today is that there are many different viable strategies. Reanimator is a powerful strategy that most decks need to account for and sideboard accordingly. Toughen up kid, 18 years ago when I started playing Magic, this is the deck that my friend played casual: Big Blue. And that was a typical top tournament deck one had to face.
October 8, 2013 2:41 p.m.
Meh, Thoughtseize takes out any spell turn one, but that doesn't make you say, "I just wont play magic till it cycles!" does it?
If you really want to play reanimator just hope to play against green-less decks and such, or wait till it cycles.
Hell Rest in Peace is a thing too!
October 8, 2013 3:41 p.m.
Back during original Ravnica block Tormod's Crypt was a 4 of in any side board at my LGS because of Golgari Grave-Troll and Dread Return . I built my reanimator for back then to have answers for crypt by putting 4 Willbender in my sidebaord. Went undefeated at more than one fnm. Put a little removal main board and some more in your sde board so you can have it when u need it in case you play against someone running a lot of gy hate
October 8, 2013 4:52 p.m.
Bottom line. If you don't have spot removal in your deck, you're asking to get thumped.
October 8, 2013 5:01 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #29
Once again, plan ahead, lot's of things own Scavenging Ooze and Deathrite Shaman side board those answers for when you need them. (or mainboard them, if there good against everything.)
Underworld Cerberus is a good example, not the normal card you'd want to use in reanimator, but it stops your graveyard being targeted, so all you need to do, afterwards is get it killed.
October 8, 2013 5:58 p.m.
so play your own ooze. there are many ways a green black re-animater deck ruins my days. especially 3 color..... g-w-b
October 8, 2013 7:25 p.m.
with ooze i just eat everything in response to them killing it. Gain some life for your troubles,
Kcin says... #2
I once had an Esper Reanimator with Skaab Goliath , Headless Skaab , and other self-exile cards.... it worked out... just gotta take those sacrifices smartly... even if something is good on the field if something better can be gotten by exiling from the graveyard, do it. that's my 2 cents
October 8, 2013 11:38 a.m.