If white isn't "allowed" to have stable and good draw, what else could it have to make it viable?
General forum
Posted on April 28, 2022, 3:07 a.m. by TypicalTimmy
As we all know, mono-white lacks consistent, stable, reliable draw. It matters not if you are in Standard, EDH, Modern, Vintage, Draft, Legacy, etc. Generally speaking, white has never had a strong focus on draw.
What white does have is interactions on the boardstate. Exile effects are the most prominent in white, for starters. White also excels at creating token creatures, speeding out small creatures, gaining life and having creatures with a high toughness to sort of "block off" incoming attacks. White also loves anthems and - I could be wrong - but I believe it has the most out of any color? The amount of enchantments or lords that give a generic +1/+1 or +2/+2, cards that give vigilance or first strike or lifelink or indestructible... White clearly loves boardstate interactions.
So if white can't get reliable draw, but gets outstanding boardstate interactions, is there something else white could be getting to help balance the tides a bit better?
Maybe some mana generation as a replacement effect for life gain?
Something along the lines of:
If you would gain life you may instead gain for each 3 life you would have gained rounded down.
Would love for white to have some extra ramp.
April 28, 2022 6:09 a.m.
I agree completely with plakjekaas. Definitely wouldn't want to sit across from a mono-white boardwipe tribal deck that can consistently draw a different wipe on most turns, and stax and things would be really rough too.
White really hasn't been in a bad spot. It does what it does, and does it by far the best. In any other color Swords to Plowshares would be borderline bannable. One green or blue or black to exile a commander, at instant speed, would be nuts.
I just don't think that white needs any big changes. It seems like they are pumping it again in New Capenna (though I haven't checked out the set too much) and that's a little scary. These things remind me of back in the day when green was the weakest color, then they added good draw to green, and now look at the monster it created. Elfball and big finishers have been around forever, but when they gave green one more type of piece, it became by far the best color.
I say buff red. Red's effects plus good consistent draw would be much less oppressive than white's effects with good draw. I think anyways : )
April 28, 2022 7:57 a.m.
FormOverFunction says... #5
I always think of white having first strike, but there doesn’t seem to be as much of it as I expect there to be. That’s the option I would shoot for.
April 28, 2022 8:44 a.m.
Is this supposed to be in the Commander forum? If so, I'll happily move it there. But this "white doesn't have good card draw" holds little to no water outside of commander. And while commander definitely is popular, it is not the only format in the game.
Outside of commander, white does its thing via weenies or stax, or both. And what it does is brutal. There's a reason that archetypes like mono white death and taxes are a well defined thing. And additionally, you can run more than one copy of a card in non-singleton formats (shock horror). That means cards like Thraben Inspector can be run as up to a 4 of, which is now 4 cantrips in addition to being a 1 mana beater.
And hell, there are mono white decks that run 4 copies of Land Tax in addition to Scroll Rack for insane levels of card advantage. The deck is called Parfait.
As I said, mono-white is very strong and doesn't need anything to help balance the tides. And white as one of the main colours in a two or three colour deck is insanely strong. Take a look a stoneblade as a prime example.
Seriously, can we please stop thinking that Magic the Gathering lives on purely to service the Commander player base?
April 28, 2022 9:06 a.m.
plakjekaas says... #7
I did specify in the end my argument was constructed for Commander, because in 1v1 formats, you don't need to draw cards to win. I play mono white in Standard, and the advantage there is Usher of the Fallen (multiple creatures for just one card), Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (to keep the spell decks honest), Skyclave Apparition (premium removal that leaves a creature), Elite Spellbinder (taxing a spell you don't want to see, great tempo play on a 3/1 with evasion), Luminarch Aspirant (a must-answer creature that will run away with the game if you let it), a single Welcoming Vampire that barely ever loses summoning sickness, because literally every FNM opponent who plays against my deck doesn't want me to draw more, because my battlefield is annoying enough, and then post board, there's Archon of Emeria for when you're opponents are doing all the things and you need them to stop and Guardian of Faith to turn their boardwipes back into a 1 for 1. Practically all creatures have some mana- or card advantage built in without the words "draw a card" or "add a " written on. It's not obvious, but it's how white wins, that's why white is the underdog in commander, no matter how many colorshifted green/blue cards are added in commander to equalize the weaknesses, the good white cards are the nonobvious advantages like Ephemerate on your etb creature which blanks a removal spell on top of retriggering.
I don't really need to draw cards in Standard, it only dilutes the plan of tempoing out your opponent with efficient creatures to spend cards on it, and I'm pretty surprised people structurally kill the 1of Welcoming Vampire over any big Luminarch Aspirant or Elite Spellbinder, even when I threaten lethal next turn if I can remove their blocks.
April 28, 2022 10:28 a.m.
wallisface says... #8
I second this thread being moved to the commander forum - as White does perfectly fine in every other format. It’s (arguably) one of the strongest colours in modern even!
I’m not even sure why a colour not being able to do things is bad - in any eternal format it’s pretty common to be playing 2+ colours, and those other identities can shore-up each-others weaknesses.
In any case, for those that enjoy meandering rants, i ranked all the “mono-x” colours a while ago from a modern perspective, so here’s that:
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Blue 2/10: There’s virtually no monoblue decks in modern outside of Merfolk, a tribe that struggles to remain relevant in the meta (and often isn’t). There’s also admittedly U-tron. Blues ideal play pattern, of control, is just soo much stronger with the inclusion of white/black/both, and so there’s basically no reason to confine yourself to monoblue. It’s biggest weakness is that it generally requires other colours to shore-up its weaknesses, so can’t really operate on its own - there’s too much the colour lacks that it often needs support.
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Black 3/10: There are a few black decks that crop up within modern, most notably Devotion and 8rack. The devotion deck isn’t particularly competitive, but 8rack has seen some good levels of strength from time to time (though the archetype frequently wants to include a second colour). Blacks biggest issue is that many of its cards (particularly creatures) don’t really work well with each other. While it has some good creatures like Dauthi Voidwalker or Plague Engineer, the colour lacks any solid 1-drops, and in general all the creatures just do their own thing- there’s no synergy.
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Green 6/10: Green has had reasonable success with the Stompy deck, and this is a build that can still perform well. Additionally, there is Tron, as-well as decks like Hardened Scales, which has performed well while being mono-green. Greens big benefits are consistency, which allows for synergistic builds, and aggression, which allows it to outpace more complicated/clumsy decks.
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Red 7/10: Red has had Burn, which has constantly managed to remain a top-tier deck (though not always mono-red). Additional to this, red has 8wack, and Skred-Red. The colour benefits from many of the same benefits green has, while exploring a shell that provides stronger competitive options.
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White 9/10: The longest lasting mono-white deck is Death&Taxes, which remains a huge threat to many, many top tier decks. Outside of that, there is the very popular Hammer Time, and the less-seen Maytr-Proc. The colour has (arguably) the most diverse range of competitively-viable monocolour decks, and the modern meta has consistently had a mono-white deck among its top tier lists.
April 28, 2022 4:39 p.m.
xtechnetia says... #9
Seems like every attempt by Commander players to buff white is an attempt to turn it into green or something.
White is the worst at card draw, and that's perfectly ok. Honestly, I think the real issue with white is that its strengths are unwelcome to the majority of Commander players - there are frequent complaints about stax, sweepers, and so on being "unfun" even though that's precisely the type of stuff white is supposed to be about.
If any color is suffering in 60 card formats right now, it's black. Fair black-based strategies are close to nonexistent in Modern/Legacy.
plakjekaas says... #2
Stax, tax & boardwipes? Forcing your own weaknesses for others to enjoy is something white is great at. Not many great tutors? Aven Mindcensor, now neither do you. Bad at drawing cards? Spirit of the Labyrinth, now you are too. Overwhelming me with many spells I can't keep up with? Rule of Law. I don't have very efficient noncreature spells compared to other colors? Thalia, Guardian of Thraben now neither do you.
All these things are powerful, and giving white good carddraw so they can collect and stack these kinds of effects, will make white a lot more powerful, which is why it's a good thing that Rhystic Study isn't actually white, even though it feels like a white effect.
Yet, Mentor of the Meek, Dawn of Hope, Welcoming Vampire, Esper Sentinel, Bennie Bracks, Zoologist, Bygone Bishop, Thorough Investigation, even when you exclude colorless supplements, white is building a catalog of consistent carddraw anyway, especially if you consider Teleportation Circle has an array of targets to blink for carddraw in mono W as well: Spirited Companion, Inspiring Overseer, Priest of Ancient Lore, Thraben Inspector, Professor of Symbology, Resistance Squad, Search Party Captain and Wall of Omens.
Also strategy-specific stuff like Mesa Enchantress, Sram, Senior Edificer, Puresteel Paladin, Losheel, Clockwork Scholar. I think it's weird to say white can't draw cards, I'd say you're not trying hard enough if you're still complaining about that today. At least for Commander. In 1v1 formats, carddraw just isn't as important to win the game if it has to happen before turn 5.
April 28, 2022 6:03 a.m.