Crumbling Sanctuary
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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Archenemy Legal
Block Constructed Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Custom Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Highlander Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Planar Constructed Legal
Planechase Legal
Premodern Legal
Quest Magic Legal
Vanguard Legal
Vintage Legal

Crumbling Sanctuary

Artifact

For each 1 damage that would be dealt to a player, that player removes the top card of his or her library from the game instead.

SufferFromEDHD on Mindskinner Ability Loss

8 months ago

Ipnu Rivulet

Mind Bomb discard or mill

Black Vise and/or The Rack depending on your meta

Ankh of Mishra value

Crumbling Sanctuary commander #2

wallisface on Mono Red Control/Mill (Premodern)

11 months ago

halanvaina My main suggestion is to stop trying to build a deck around Crumbling Sanctuary... 5 mana is far too high for a card that only lets you begin to enact a plan. It also undoes any work you've done towards defeating your opponent before its cast.

Good red cards i'm seeing in the meta include:

^ all of the above seem to be fairly frequently used within the meta, as seen from the links already provided in my last post.

From your statement "Mono red is a difficult color to work with outside of aggro" - yes this is true. But one thing worth noting is that your deck isn't doing any of the typical things a non-aggro deck would be doing... so your current build is kindof aggro, just extremely slow. If you're wanting to build towards Midrange or Control, you need a LOT more interaction with the opponent to slow them down. If you're wanting your deck to be more geared towards Combo, then you need to have reliable ways to win the game extremely quickly. In any case you can't decide to be both a slow deck and a non-interactive deck - your deck needs to either be very fast, or very interactive (that is the case for all decks generally speaking).

From your other comments:

  • What specifically do you think Feldon's Cane is helping you with? You keep defending it in a super vague way but I'm seeing absolutely zero reason to be running it (I also just re-read Crumbling Sanctuary and realised Feldon's Cane doesn't even help with that, so I honestly have no idea what value you think this artifact is bringing).

  • The problem with Devastating Dreams is that it costs you and your opponent the same amount of lands and creatures - your deck includes both of these so you're unlikely to make any big advantages in this area (especially as your deck needs a LOT of lands to function). But then, it additionally costs you (and only you) a bunch of cards from your hand. I don't see how that every advantages you.

  • On your comment "It does damage to each creature, and makes the both of us sac ideally all of our lands". What do you gain from losing all your lands? As the opponent almost-assuredly has a lower mana-curve than you, won't they just get back into the game quicker? Especially as they'll still have a hand of cards. Yes it can work with Mogg Maniac but your deck isn't geared around pulling off this combo so it feels unlikely to give you a payoff high enough to warrant this interaction.

My suggestions would be as follows:

  • What archetype are you wanting this deck to slot into? If its aggro, you need to drastically lower the mana-curve (i.e, have nothing over 3 mana. You need to be able to reliably apply enough pressure to deal lethal by turn 4-5). If it's midrange, you still need to lower the mana-curve a bunch, but additionally you need a bunch of cards that interact with your opponents boardstate and slow them down. If it's control, you need to have the vast majority of your deck as interactive pieces and game-controlling effects. If its combo, you need to reliably be able to win the game by turn 4-5.

  • Once you know what archetype you're wanting to build, you need to decide what strategy you're wanting to enact here... so far it feels like there's no clear direction going on - I can assume by the name of the deck you're wanting to base this around Crumbling Sanctuary, which I can't ever see working unless you're building some form of control-shell, which will likely need more than just red as a colour-base. But in any case, you need to ditch all cards that aren't either enacting your plan, or strengthening the archetype you're in.

If you'd like I can try and build you some kind of example list, though i'd need to have a clear indicator to the answers of the above 2 questions on archetype and strategy.

wallisface on Mono Red Control/Mill (Premodern)

11 months ago

halanvaina just to play devils-advocate to your latest comment, I've posted replies to some of the mentioned cards and ideas. I hope this doesn't come across too rude - I just really feel like your deck is lacking some really fundamental deckbuilding guidelines and feels very non-functional because of this.

  • I don't see the point at-all of Feldon's Cane. You have absolutely no way to mill yourself unless you've played Crumbling Sanctuary and then failed to kill your opponent before they've killed you... the entire plan here feels flawed if that's the case. Crumbling Sanctuary itself is already faar too expensive mana-wise, and there's very-good odds you won't even be able to cast it before the game ends.

  • swapping one overcosted card for another doesn't really solve any problems... Kamahl, Pit Fighter is still too high a mana cost to be useful imo. I agree it is a very-strong improvement over Butcher Orgg, but that doesn't mean either should be played.

  • I'm not sure what you're hoping to achieve from Devastating Dreams? This looks like it hurts you much more than your opponent, especially considering your mana curve is so egregiously high.

  • You seem to be relying a lot on Jayemdae Tome but I really can't see how the card is playable. Yes it lets you draw 4 cards but at the expense of effectively doing nothing for two full turns - i'm not sure how any deck doesn't just automatically lose when they're taking two turns off doing nothing impactful.

  • I get that Helm of Awakening is there to try and accelerate your mana curve, and that will help, but even then you've only included 2 of them, and your curve is still massively high. You need a LOT more mana acceleration, or to severely reduce your mana curve - and ideally you would do both.

  • I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve with Mangara's Tome, presumably card selection, but this really isn't the answer. Your mana resources are too limited already and either triggering or casting this thing likely means doing very little else in your turn. You're better-off drawing blindly from your deck than paying 2 mana to draw sudo-blindly anyway.

My biggest concern is your statement "While I do agree with opponents choosing two different options a terrible idea most of the time, the thing is with damage and fairly low cmc means that eventually your opponent will just have to do what I want."... the problem is that your deck doesn't have low cmc - I've checked other premodern decks and none of them are even remotely this slow. I don't believe the opponent will have to "choose what you want" because firstly if they're switching to the other choice, that means the first option would be hurting them more, so they're still taking the best path for their own survival, and making your life harder. And secondly, because I don't believe your deck is remotely fast enough to apply any pressure... your opponent will win long-before you put them into any kind of a bind.

I had a look at a bunch of competitive premodern decks here and there is a big gap between these decks and what you're currently running - namely that these decks can enact their plans much more quickly, and run a much lower mana-curve. I see premodern has archetypes like burn, which is effectively what you're doing but without all the extra steps and self-induced complications.

wallisface on Mono Red Control/Mill (Premodern)

1 year ago

I’m not familiar in the premodern format, but this list seems to be doing a lot of things that feel weak/wrong.

Crumbling Sanctuary feels very weak, in that its basically saying to the opponent “hey you know how you had 20 life… now you effectively have around 45-50”. I get this impacts your own life total as well, but with no cards in your deck to profit from being in the graveyard, and no other cards that naturally mill (outside of Book Burning) before you drop this 5-mana arifact, i don’t see how this card helps you… it’s much more likely to benefit your opponent.

Cards that let your opponent choose an option are considered pretty-universally terrible. This is because the opponent will always choose the option that benefits you the least, meaning the card will always be doing the weakest of its effects.

Your mana curve feels excessively high. I don’t know the format well but it feels adjacent to modern/pioneer, and in that regard your mana curve is far too high. Your quantity of 4-5 mana spells is excessive, but also I see no way you’re ever realistically casting either Butcher Orgg or Avatar of Fury.

boq-condor on Umbris, Deck Eater

3 years ago

Coward_Token, Crumbling Sanctuary was in my original list but I was worried about the backlash of it impacting my deck as well. It might get added back in though.

Rocketman988, I still need to playtest, I play mostly tabletop EDH with friends so I will have to see what works. Thanks for the suggestions!

Coward_Token on Umbris, Deck Eater

3 years ago

Crumbling Sanctuary was mentioned in the Command Zone video, could be fun.

unwucht on Omnath, A Song of Creation and Chaos

4 years ago

So I got a nice success story to share: first round on spelltable, I played a gouphug/groupslug deck and an Esper enchantment control deck. The Esper guy manages to get a Crumbling Sanctuary on the field early game. All opponents have like 88 cards in their library left. I managed to get Purphoros on the field and exiled their complete libraries. That was such a tremendouns performance, I do not regret putting Purphy in the deck any more.

zAzen7977 on ULTIMATE TINKER 2021

4 years ago

ClockworkSwordfish, darn! Thanks for letting me know and citing the rule. I’ll take out Crumbling Sanctuary.

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