Going infinite
Standard forum
Posted on April 10, 2014, 12:08 a.m. by Hunter_mtg
http://mythicspoiler.com/nyx/cards/sageofhours.html
This plus vorel and ajani goes infinite, That seems really inefficient. Has anyone figured out a way to put a decent amount of counters effeciently w/out ajani, he seems like the weakest link for the combo being 5 mana and a new color.
The nice thing is the combo fits pretty naturally into a deck, like
GGWP (Infinite Turns in Standard!) Playtest
Standard
SCORE: 8 | 11 COMMENTS | 213 VIEWSApril 10, 2014 1:03 a.m.
Sage of Hours, Vorel of the Hull Clade and new Ajani is infinite right there, assuming you have out some mana dorks like Elvish Mystic to pay for Vorel's ability after you cast Ajani on turn 5 at the slowest.
No need for Kalonian Hydra or Corpsejack Menace .
really though;
Turn 1 Elvish Mystic
Turn 2 Sylvan Caryatid
Turn 3 Vorel of the Hull Clade + card:sage of hours
Turn 4 card:Ajani, mentor of heroes; infinite turns locked in.
Kalonian Hydra could get a few turns going but isn't as repeatable as card:ajani, mentor of heroes with Vorel of the Hull Clade as that is truly infinite with no contingency on 'attack phases' or having an extra combo piece involved with Corpsejack Menace when you already need the card:sage of hours + card:Ajani, mentor of heroes, Corpsejack Menace requires you go 4 color so it's out immediately, and Kalonian Hydra is a 5-drop itself that needs to attack the turn AFTER it comes out, at best your ramping Kalonian on 4 into Ajani on 5, so I guess it's not That Bad, however I prefer to be locking in the infinite turns on 4, if your on the play it can take away your opponents ability to Supreme Verdict which would be one of the only ways to stop you, assuming you have Sylvan Caryatid as your main ramp source, Kiora, the Crashing Wave would make for a great win-con as would Elspeth, Sun's Champion , throw in Jace, Architect of Thought for good measure and you got Bant Walkers with an infinite turns combo.
April 10, 2014 2:11 a.m.
derKochXXL says... #5
I didn't think about how to go infinite, but I thought about ways to get the Sage of Hours online as fast as possible. I think additionally to all the suggested ways, wich are probably better, it could be fun to target a two counter heroic creature like Setessan Oathsworn and the sage with Bioshift i know this only amounts to three counters but I believe it's really low maintenance. Also Zameck Guildmage might help.
April 10, 2014 2:36 a.m.
April 10, 2014 2:49 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #7
Another, potentially easier, method of achieving infinite turns is Elite Arcanist + Triton Tactics + sage of hours with 5 mana available.
I already use the Elite Tactics combo with zhur taa druid so sage of hours easily slots in.
April 10, 2014 12:14 p.m.
Devilsmage says... #8
What about Kalonian Hydra along with bioshift and sage of hours?...If you can get to 5 and attack with Kalonian Hydra ... get a free turn , you can attack again with hydra which then will double the counters...allowing you to attack again to double its counters etc etc.
With the hydra and bioshift I think it is doable IN STANDARD.
April 10, 2014 12:35 p.m.
Devilsmage says... #9
Start with 4 counters on hydra, attack with it to get to 8, move 4 or 5 to the sage and then repeat?
April 10, 2014 12:36 p.m.
You would need infinite Bioshift .
Ajani, Mentor of Heroes + Vorel of the Hull Clade is a repeatable source of +5 counters on the Sage of Hours which is an infinite turns combo without Kalonian Hydra or Corpsejack Menace attack phases, or specific spell cards that are finite as you would need to crack an Elixir of Immortality and redraw the Bioshift over and over, which would require even more spells to dig for them after you shuffle them back into the library, basically its not infinite.
April 10, 2014 4:21 p.m.
@Hunter_mtg I guess if you really wanted to pull off the combo without Ajani, Mentor of Heroes you could use Elite Arcanist to imprint Bioshift then you could use Kalonian Hydra and it would all come together, however instead of trying to make it work without Ajani, Mentor of Heroes why not just use him. I've outlined a fairly detailed way in which to go infinite turns as early as turn 4, if your starting seven and first three draws net you the 10 cards needed to pull it off, including the four lands needed to cast everything, so 6 cards if you don't count the lands;
2x Elvish Mystic , Sylvan Caryatid , Sage of Hours , vorell of the hull clade and Ajani, Mentor of Heroes + four lands, 2x Forest , Island and Plains .
Considering my version I have outlined here is 10 cards, if you replace Ajani and Vorel with Kalonian Hydra , Elite Arcanist AND Bioshift , it becomes an 11 card combo, which gives your opponent the opportunity to have a fourth turn opening the window for them to cast Supreme Verdict .
As unlikely as it is to pull off the 10 card combo, it's nearly impossible if it were an 11 card combo.
April 10, 2014 4:56 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #12
Ajani puts 3 counters on sage, move to combat, double counters to 6. No need for Bioshift .
April 10, 2014 4:58 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #13
Hero removes all of the counters, then judges how many turns are given. It just seems to me like some of you guys are forgetting that in these wild, unplayable combos.
The only one so far that i've seen that looks the slightest bit plausible is Vorel of the Hull Clade and Ajani. And, well, Hero's Downfall / Doom Blade / Lightning Strike in response to ajani's ability / Last Breath at any time / Any other piece of removal in standard....
This is just not the sort of meta where playing Combo will work out.
That's not to say that you can't try this out at FNM, but this will never catch on in competitive play.
April 10, 2014 5:04 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #14
One thing I like about the Elite Tactics combo with Sage of Hours is that it requires only U to support it. This allows you to be VERY flexible in our color pairings, you can throw this combo into a Azo Control shell if you wanted. (Arcanist + Dissolve ? Or Azorius Charm ? Just dumb.)
April 10, 2014 5:09 p.m.
Bant infinite everything Playtest
Standard
SCORE: 0 | 0 COMMENTS | 15 VIEWSIf you're going infi combo, you should go all the way!
April 10, 2014 5:24 p.m.
Good point ThatBlueMage once you activate Sage of Hours ALL the +1/+1 counters are removed from him and for each 5 you get an extra turn. If your trying to make it work without Ajani, Mentor of Heroes you'll need a way to put More +1 counter's on the Sage of Hours to then double with Kalonian Hydra . The sage does have heroic, but that only puts one +1 counter on it for each castable spell that targets him. Assuming you manage to get 1 extra turn at some point you remove ALL the +1 counters on the sage, you then cast a spell targeting him, likely one that doesn't even add counters, heroic triggers and the sage gets one +1/+1 counter, then you move to combat and swing with Kalonian Hydra that puts the count up to 2, then you pass turn. Kinda fizzles out right there.
Ajani, Mentor of Heroes is fairly integral to making the combo truly infinite.
April 10, 2014 6:02 p.m.
Elite Arcanist can help here, as an addition combo of moving parts in and of itself with a repeatable spell that targets Sage of Hours , but really how many ways can we convolute this concept.
I still prefer my idea best; Sage of Hours , Vorel of the Hull Clade and Ajani, Mentor of Heroes .
No Bioshift or Triton Tactics
All that free's up space to protect the core combo., as well as a butt load of mana dorks to pump out the combo pieces and get it up and running as soon as possible.
Once you have infinite turns you can pick how you win, likely by accepting your opponents concession.
April 10, 2014 6:09 p.m.
The combo deck:Elite Taaactics is an established and complete combo deck, it doesn't need Sage of Hours as it already has a plan of attack and can 'get there'. Adding the sage actually convolutes the Elite Taaactics game plan by jamming up the opening hand with an unnecessary card that doesn't help or effect the decks main win condition. Sure you can end up, 'going infinite turns' but why, to get to the decks main win-con during the infinite turns? One could just win any old way once infinite turns is online, which makes the addition of the Elite Taaactics combo/moving parts obsolete, IMO.
tl;dr you can actually combo off faster with Elite Taaactics without Sage of Hours as it would not help the main win condition at all, and in fact would slow it down because you drew 'not a combo piece' related to Elite Taaactics win-con.
April 10, 2014 6:35 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #19
I think you're missing my point Behgz.
Ajani, Vorel, and Sage, while being a good combo, is a three card combo that is VERY color intensive (U/G for Vorel and G/W for Ajani) and requires 3 colors, and it forces your hand as to which colors that can be.
Arcanist, Tactics, and Sage is ALSO a 3 card combo and doesn't require much in the way of color. (Just U for each) This makes splashing easier. You could go Azo, Dimir, or Simic without having to add anything other than the combo. This combo is also cheaper mana wise.
My point is simply that the Ajani combo shoehorns you into the three colors but the Arcanist combo could be slotted into any shell. You are devoting the same amount of slots to the deck in either case so that can be ruled out entirely.
You don't HAVE to run the Arcanist version as Elite Tactics. It's just what I plan on doing with it.
April 10, 2014 7:22 p.m.
@Ohthenoises I get it now, Elite Arcanist + Sage of Hours +Triton Tactics + 5 open mana is infinite turns, all blue cards, easily packaged as a splash. Pretty cool.
Elvish Mystic would help to get the Elite Arcanist out on turn 3 with an untap into infinite on turn 4. I can see how that would be optimal, no Ajani, Mentor of Heroes required. Not Bad.
April 10, 2014 7:41 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #21
Cheaper on the wallet too.... lol
I really think that the best slot for this to go in would be an Azo control shell. They are running the countermagic suite to protect for the turns, and even if you don't get the desired Triton Tactics on an Elite Arcanist you can always put an Azorius Charm on him. Which would be ridiculous to think of.
Simic flash with Prophet of Kruphix could be another method, giving your combo pieces pseudo haste with the Flash ability. T1 Elvish Mystic , T2 Sylvan Caryatid , T3 Prophet of Kruphix , on your end step flash in Elite Arcanist , untap and take infinite turns.
April 10, 2014 7:47 p.m.
I'm scrapping my initial idea LoL it was a tall order anyways :P
While we're in Magical Christmas Land, our opponents won't be disrupting our plans G1, G2 or G3;
Turn 1: Land Elvish Mystic
Turn 2: Land Sage of Hours
Turn 3: Land Elite Arcanist imprint Triton Tactics
Turn 4: Land 'Go Infinite'
I like this route because it's the Least amount of cards and lands required to pull it off as soon as possible, 8 to be exact, 2x Island , 2x Forest , 1x Elvish Mystic , 1x Sage of Hours , 1x Elite Arcanist and 1x Triton Tactics .
You could Mull to 5 on the play and still get there.
This is basically tapped back together and being sold as 'refurbished', cough broken cough.
April 10, 2014 7:59 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #23
I would also suggest Prophet of Kruphix . Haste is nothing to be trifled with and neither is Flash.
April 10, 2014 8:13 p.m.
I can see the applications of Prophet of Kruphix , but that Is a 5-drop, assuming you either go infinite or bust, a 5-drop might not be the best thing to draw into unless you're already infinite and looking for Jace, Memory Adept to win.
I'd be willing to unblock you if you disband your 'posse' of doctor and fluffypants, just tell them to ease up, will ya?
April 10, 2014 8:25 p.m.
That's Fine. I still unblocked you, I feel we are going to have to learn to live with each other here.
Can't say the same for the other two, at least not yet..
Servo_Token says... #2
As of right now, there aren't any efficient ways of putting 5 counters on a creature every turn. I mean, Corpsejack Menace + 2x Forced Adaptation gets there, but that's pretty clunky. The Elite Taactics combo works a lot better, but that requires a huge mana investment. I'm sure between all the simic crap from Ravnica, Kalonian Hydra , and Bioshift , you can come up with a decent deck that takes quite a few turns, but right now there isn't a stable infinite combo that is very effective.
Granted, this is strictly for standard. In modern, this card is broken as all get out.
April 10, 2014 12:12 a.m.