April 2016: Shadows over Innistrad
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Oct. 31, 2015, 6:42 p.m. by JWiley129
Announced during GP Indy, the Spring 2016 set is Shadows over Innistrad!
Edits for FAQ:
- Here is Mark Rosewater on why we're getting two returns in a row.
EverythingIsK says... #2
Just waiting patiently for Sorin's card in tomorrow's LSV post. I really want a Sorin Markov-esque Sorin, and not another token fap material card. I don't care about the cost, I'll play it.
March 16, 2016 11:58 p.m.
Some questions that I think need to be answered:
1) is the repetitive discard on ravenous bloodseeker necessary? Or can we just stick with the single discard cards that are much better value wise like heir of falkenwrath and lightning axe?
I vote no, but just wondering.
2) how do we evaluate a top end of a deck to be too top heavy if cards have madness? How many is too many 5 drops, even though 4 or so have madness?
I've been sticking to 6-7 (4 incorrigible youths)
3) is wolf of Devils breach worth it in these decks?
I'm currently trying him as a 2 of
4) will there be a viable GWx megamorph etc deck with sigarda as top end?
Idk, but I'm sure as hell gonna try! I already have an abzan Megamorph build from before; just gotta make room for anguished unmaking and sigarda
5) is splashing blue for Jace in the vampire madness necessary?
Please god no.
6) Jund midrange or Naya midrange?
The white removal this set is insane, but not sure which color pairing is the better one here.
7) is it possible to splash green for Arlinn in the Madness Vampire decks?
I'm trying, and will report back later
8) is Arlinn super busted?
I assume so... To the point where modern Jund will now probably never look elsewhere for a 4 drop.
9) WHY THE FUCK did wizards print an Insane storm card WITHOUT AN EXILE CLAUSE!? Is it possible that it's not as broken as we think it'll be?
They're crazy, this is most definitely insane, and storm is gonna get banned to oblivion AGAIN in 2 rotations. You heard it here first.
10) is nahiri Someone you want to jam in every RWx deck? Or only when you are utilizing madness?
Undecided, leaning towards no.
And finally:
11) Is straight 3 color still reasonably possible? Or should we stick to 2 and a splash? Or maybe even just 2?
Assuming 3 is fine, looks like we have exactly enough mana fixing to make it work. But I'm running 4 Evolving Wilds in every deck over 2 colors.
Anyway, let me know what your answers are? What do you think?
March 17, 2016 12:38 a.m.
EverythingIsK says... #4
1) I agree that there are better discard options like the ones you mentioned.
2) It's either you play vampire tribal with new olivia and madness vampire (can't remember the name), or play for madness. I don't think there is much in between.
3) Looks pretty Standard bomb, to be junk mythic after it rotates. (Way of the Stormbreath Dragon?)
4) I'm assuming you're talking standard, and I don't do standard. Modern though, she seems like some good tech against a lot of decks.
5) I mean... it wouldn't be the worst thing that you could do...
6) Why not mardu? :]
7) If vamps splash for her, you can also add Collected Company, which is something I'd expect people to do.
8) she's pretty hecking stronk. If I played green, I'd play with her in a deck.
9) I'm going to try it in skred, looks like some good tech, since I can slow the game down. Seems fun. Storm will love it coincidentally. Or I could be wrong. I don't play it, but I think everything is worth a try.
10) No. She's kinda "build around me" and I don't want to. I wouldn't play her over Chandra, Pyromaster or Ajani Vengeant. I hope new sorin would be a good Mardu tool. :]
11) I'm assuming standard again, so pass :]
March 17, 2016 12:55 a.m.
Maybe Sorin will be all black again and give us a -4 destroy all creatures like Damnation, then I can forget about this splash blue for Jace in my mono-black business.
March 17, 2016 12:58 a.m.
A six drop Sorin that starts with 5 loyalty counters and has a -4 Damnation would be great. Depending on his other abilities, he could be the new Elspeth, Sun's Champion.
March 17, 2016 1 a.m.
I'm pretty sure that if a 6-mana 'walker has a conditional wrath at -3, there's no way another 6-mana 'walker has an actual wrath as a minus ability, regardless of the amount of loyalty.
March 17, 2016 1:04 a.m.
Yea I was talking about standard. In standard tho, I assume that if you aren't playing Arlinn in just about every deck, you better have a damn good reason for it. So Naya and Jund are probably more viable than Mardu (even tho I love mardu. I tried...)
March 17, 2016 1:08 a.m.
Hey guys. Can we also brainstorm for viable lifegain options now? Seeker and soulfire are gone. Pretty much all that's left is the incedental life gain from Lili and Kalitas... For people trying to play Read the Bones or Painful Truths, or even more likely Anguished unmaking, I don't think just those is going to cut it. Is it time for main deck Cleric of the Forward Order?!
March 17, 2016 1:11 a.m.
I'm actually thinking of trying Cleric of the Forward Order in a Mardu midrange shell. I tried Mardu before and deemed it too hard to retain a reasonable life total, but Clerics and multiple K commands in the deck should counteract that nicely.
brewing intensifies
March 17, 2016 1:13 a.m.
EverythingIsK says... #11
@GearNoir: LSV said Sorin is 
. I'd be perfectly fine paying 6 mana for something that isn't tokens related.
Maybe...
Sorin, Shadow of Innistrad
Cost: 
Starting loyalty: 4
+2: Sorin may deal 3 damage to target creature. If that creature dies, exile it instead.
-3: Exile target non-land permanent.
-10: Choose 3 non-land permanents target opponent controls, exile them. Return each permanent exiled by Sorin to the battlefield under your control.
I feel like this seems a little overboard, but it's the general idea of what I'm hoping for.
March 17, 2016 1:18 a.m.
I personally doubt we get a May clause for the + abilities from now on. Nahiri got the "may" because she had discard in the plus, and we saw how well that worked out with tibalt.
March 17, 2016 1:21 a.m.
EverythingIsK says... #13
I added "may" because if the board is empty, no creatures in play would mean the ability would have no target, and I would assume including "may" is for clarity for this.
March 17, 2016 1:38 a.m.
Just switch it to target creature or player. At 6 mana, he should be ending the game fairly quickly anyway, so a lightning bolt on a stick shouldn't be a problem.
March 17, 2016 1:49 a.m.
the mat clause is crucial to planeswalkers that target, IMO it will never be removed as if your opponent has hexproof and no creatures you'd have to bolt yourself, wizards don't make those scenarios with + abilities on walkers
March 17, 2016 2:07 a.m.
bennybubbles says... #16
Couldn't it be worded "Up to one"? That flows better than a "may" clause
March 17, 2016 2:33 a.m.
"Abbey of the Eastern Vale"
Land
T: Add to your mana pool.
5, T, pay one life: Put a 1/1 white and black human cleric token onto the battlefield.
5, T, sacrifice five creatures: transform and untap Ormendahl, "Prince of Profaners"
Haven't found a translation for this.
March 17, 2016 6:25 a.m.
Ormendahl, Prince of the Profane
Flying, lifelink, indestructible, haste.
9/7
"After the disappearence of Griselbrand, Skirsdag adepts impatiently waited for another demon demanding their devotion. Ormendahl didn't make them wait much longer."
March 17, 2016 6:28 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #22
Black EDH/Commander token decks, rejoice. Oh wait... That's just Prossh and Ghave for the most part. Well thanks for flipping your land, I'll play Dominate.
March 17, 2016 6:39 a.m.
Metroid_Hybrid says... #24
I bet that will make a legit finsher for W/B (Orzhov)-Tokens..
March 17, 2016 7:31 a.m.
Here we see another elbrus.
Really cool, but completely unplayable (in standard or eternal formats)
March 17, 2016 7:36 a.m.
Looking at Ormendahl...
9/7 Flying, Lifelink, Indestructible, Haste. Okay, looks good.
Checking how to get it in play...
Pay 35 mana, and 5 life over 5 turns, and sac a land!
Okay, I know it'll never really be that bad to get it transformed... but the 6 mana (you have to tap the land as well, so I'm calling it 6) and pay a life... they may as well not even have the token generating option on the card. - I guess more utility is generally a good thing, but it would actually look more appealing without it.
March 17, 2016 7:44 a.m.
Turn 5 Secure the Wastes or Blight Herder for 4 creatures into this land on turn 6 with 1-2 creatures left from previous turns seems easy enough to flip for me.
March 17, 2016 7:49 a.m.
Metroid_Hybrid - -Tokens is a 'go wide' strategy. When you have 5 tokens, you're usually in a winning position. - Sacing them for this generally not a good idea.
Having it as a 1-of..? perhaps... it's only good against decks with constant board wipe options. - It is good that it can be transformed at instant speed as it means you can respond to a wipe by getting an indestructible finisher.
March 17, 2016 7:50 a.m.
This land is the 1 dollar rare I will buy 12 of. Insane in commander, standard and anywhere else. Super flavorful too.
March 17, 2016 7:53 a.m.
Its fine in modern in tier 2. Path to exile is a pain but not many people run it. You can use mana dorks and stuff in green to ramp and find the land. Sac the mana dorks to activate it. Get a demon.
Indestructible lifelink is huge.
March 17, 2016 7:55 a.m.
So you could go with like 4 birds of paradise, 4 noble hierarch, 4 expedition map, 4 raise the alarm, 4 gather the townsfolk. Then run 4 of this land as a finisher and dudes like kitchen finks because sacrificing them is great.
March 17, 2016 8:03 a.m.
ChiefBell - For some reason, I feel Rancor should be in that list...
Allows early things to be threats, and when you sac them for Ormendhal you get to give your finisher trample... last thing you would want is for your opponent to chump block every turn.
March 17, 2016 8:15 a.m.
canterlotguardian says... #34
I mean I'll pick a few up for random EDH decks but that's about it. I'm not too crazy about it.
March 17, 2016 8:15 a.m.
beakedbard says... #35
Starting to wonder if Avaricious Dragon is actually playable now what with all the madness.
March 17, 2016 8:16 a.m.
Avaricious Dragon + Madness as well as Sea Gate Wreckage. Lots of extra cards, lots of cheaper spells.
March 17, 2016 8:20 a.m.
As I was reading the 'Delirium', I was assuming it would allow the land to enter the Battlefield instead of Hand... sadly mistaken. :(
It should be noted that the 'Delirium' does allow searching for any land, not just Basics.
1CMC "Tutor for a win-con" is still good though.
March 17, 2016 8:34 a.m. Edited.
AgentGreen says... #39
I just think the costs to get Ormendahl out is too high to make it strong in Standard; and without hexproof one bounce spell and you're in big trouble
March 17, 2016 8:35 a.m.
...can Tron reliably hit Delerium early enough to make this a way to search for a Tron land? - I doubt it, but I don't play Tron.
March 17, 2016 8:36 a.m.
Maybe a U/G build using Thought Scour? Seems unwieldy tho.
March 17, 2016 8:41 a.m.
canterlotguardian - Limited play. No one wants 
"Find my best creature" at uncommon.
Rayenous - They don't run fetchlands, and only have a few ways of getting spells in their yard. Ancient Stirrings and Chromatic Star both go to the 'yard, but then you need 2 other card types. I feel like that's a stretch.
March 17, 2016 8:43 a.m.
canterlotguardian - It's an easy to enable 1cmc creature tutor?
March 17, 2016 8:43 a.m.
canterlotguardian says... #46
I guess so. But by the time you enable Delirium, you should probably already have advanced enough in your boardstate to where your best creature shouldn't do anything but seal the deal. And if you're that far behind that you need your best creature to bring you back into the game, chances are you don't have Delirium online anyways.
EDIT: And this will be a format without Dredge, with cards that don't want to stay in the bin if they get discarded (read: Madness). There'll probably be some pseudo-Dredge spell in SOI but still, do you really want to bank on hitting four card types in a single spell?
March 17, 2016 8:47 a.m. Edited.
The only Madness cards that won't stay in the graveyard are creatures. - All others will still end up in the graveyard... and you can expect that creatures will likely be killed at some point and end up in the graveyard anyway. (I guess Enchantment and/or Artifacts could have Madness... but I feel it's much less likely)
By your logic, Madness and Delirium shouldn't be played together at all, but that actually work well together.
March 17, 2016 8:56 a.m. Edited.
Suffers from all of the same downsides as the mechanic itself, but Sorcery search for any creature or land is pretty much better than other tutors that green gets. It will certainly find some homes at least.
March 17, 2016 8:57 a.m.
Heck... Grishoalbrand decks often suffer from not getting the creature they need/want, and they usually have Delerium enabled by T2.
Having a reliable way to dig for a Craterhoof Behemoth could actually make it see more play.
And if Eye of Ugin gets the Ban Hammer, Tron can use this in it's place as a (worse) way to search for Newlamog of Emrakul.
GoldGhost012 says... #1
Actually, this is only the second time Sorin's appeared to have a major role in the plot of a block. The first time on Innistrad, he arrived to search for Avacyn, but ended up getting distracted by Tibalt until after she was released. On Tarkir, he basically revived Ugin- which was a major thing, but he wasn't actually in the story much. Compare both of those times to Zendikar, when he had an active role trying to retrap the Eldrazi before Nissa released them for good.
Hopefully he gets more spotlight in SoI. I really like his stories.
March 16, 2016 11:14 p.m.