Why Are These Cards Not Used More?
General forum
Posted on May 27, 2014, 7:40 p.m. by InnerFlame
I was previously introduced the the leyline card, Leyline of Sanctity . As I built more decks I discovered more leyline like Leyline of Lifeforce , Leyline of Punishment , etc... There are actually a whole bunch of them as you can see by going to this link--http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=+[Leyline]
My question is why are these not used more?! Not only can theybe a free drop enchantment, but they can be a total game changer if playing Leyline of Lifeforce or Leyline of Sanctity since they completely shut down some decks.
miracleHat says... #3
Leyline of the Void i think is also used a lot. Leyline of Anticipation is an edh staple.
many of the other leylines are just really weak:
Leyline of Lightning
(seriously)
Leyline of Lifeforce
(phooey)
Leyline of Lightning
only stops 1 deck and that deck isn't used that much (soul sisters)
Leyline of Singularity
sucks with the new sucking legendary rule (only stops tokens)
Leyline of the Meek
is outclassed by Intangible Virtue
for the vigilance
Leyline Phantom
; what are you talking about! That card is used all of the time.
May 27, 2014 7:44 p.m.
InnerFlame says... #4
So you guys do see these? Okay, Good. I've never seen anybody else play them.
I was mainly talking about Leyline of Sanctity , Leyline of Lifeforce and Leyline of Punishment .
Why do you say Leyline of Lifeforce is phooey, miracleHat? It would go great in Gruul decks or zoo decks. Even mono red if you get it in your opening hand. It fixes the the enemy to those decks. Blue destroys my Gruul deck cause it doesn't let me get anything out.
May 27, 2014 7:51 p.m.
miracleHat says... #5
The point of an aggro deck is to outrace the control/midrange decks. If your deck is losing to counterspells, then i would seriously rework the deck to be quicker. also, Leyline of Lifeforce doesn't deal damage. Vexing Shusher does do damage and Spellbreaker Behemoth does a lot of damage depending on the deck.
Also, i meant Leyline of Vitality .
May 27, 2014 7:55 p.m.
InnerFlame says... #6
miracleHat Yeah Leyline of Vitality isn't that great lol.
Vexing Shusher and Spellbreaker Behemoth do double with damage, but can be countered or sent back to the hand to later be countered. Leyline of Lifeforce can't be countered if it's in the opening hand. Thus giving you a game of no counters from the start. You don't have to worry about when you should play those creatures that make it so things can't be countered. Creatures are also easier to get rid of.
May 27, 2014 8:09 p.m.
The fact of the matter is, you can't depend on it being in your hand at the beginning of the game. Putting your deck at the mercy of luck is (generally) considered a bad idea.
And if you don't have it in the beginning of the game, there are usually better things you can do turn 4.
May 27, 2014 8:17 p.m.
InnerFlame says... #8
I probably should have said this in the description but I see them as sideboard cards. Strictly sideboard but staple sideboard cards.
Orcinbob is it a bad idea to try and mulligan once or twice to get that card in your hand if you know your deck is outclassed without it, but will for sure win with it?
I mean I feel like, against some decks, Leyline of Sanctity and Leyline of Lifeforce are guaranteed wins.
May 27, 2014 8:20 p.m.
miracleHat says... #9
@Invisible_Stalker, may i see a deck that gets immediately killed by Leyline of Lifeforce ?
May 27, 2014 8:31 p.m.
Sideboard they are perfectly fine and I agree with that. However, I feel that you'd have a better chance at boning yourself with the mulligans.
While there is a certain amount of luck in each game of Magic you play, I feel making your deck more inconsistent and depending on mulligans when you don't have cards that you need is a design flaw.
May 27, 2014 8:34 p.m.
InnerFlame says... #11
miracleHat I was probably over exaggerating with that a bit lol. But it makes blue, which usually runs a ton of counters, very slow.
On the other hand, Leyline of Sanctity
absolutely shuts down this one deck i always play. It won't kell them, but their cards will be useless. I don;t know what to search to find it, but it focuses on making the opponent discard and then killing them with stuff like The Rack
.
So when I said immediate win, I guess I didn't mean instant win, but most of the cards in the opponents hand will be useless. Which ends up making them play too slow to win.
May 27, 2014 8:37 p.m.
miracleHat says... #12
What i mean to say is:
french control (u/w/r) has burn/path/creatures of it's own
delver has bounce/burn
gifts esper has bounce/kill/discard
blue moon has bounce/Blood Moon
mana restrictions
storm should combo off quicker then the aggro decks
twin only needs to counter other counterspells
straight up control has boardwipes
There are too many ways to get around Leyline of Lifeforce . all of your noncreature spells can also be countered. Vexing Shusher prevents all spells, and Defense Grid slows down other decks that want to counter and gives protection to everything. it also allows you to win counter wars when it is during your turn.
May 27, 2014 8:37 p.m.
InnerFlame says... #13
Orcinbob Thank you for that tip. I was wondering about that, weather it would be wise to give up handsize and consistency for a mulligan.
May 27, 2014 8:38 p.m.
miracleHat says... #14
Also, Leyline of Sanctity is used. There is a reason why they're (HOLY SHIT) $19. They are used in the sideboards, but not the other ones and definitely not the green leylines.
May 27, 2014 8:39 p.m.
InnerFlame says... #15
miracleHat that was quite the run down on strategy...I'm impressed lol. I didn;t realize there were so many ways to get around it. Very impressed.
When I said it couldnt be countered, I meant if its in your opening hand it can't be since it isn't being played and the opponent won't have any mana. Granted there is one spell in modern that doesn't need mana.
I just think that if thats what you want to do, it'e the best card.
May 27, 2014 8:43 p.m.
There are a bunch of problems with Leyline of Lifeforce , which is why is doesn't see more play. Sure sometimes you stick them with a hand full of counterspells, but it's not that effective in the long run. If you were to play 100 matches you'd probably find it pretty disappointing. It's not in fact a guaranteed win.
You're still down a whole card on this, a often overlooked cost. You probably want 4 if you want a reasonable chance of drawing it in the opening hand and now you have these 4 non-threats in your deck. That doesn't sound like a lot, but you're suddenly drawing that much less pressure every game. Think about how groan worthy it is to top deck a land, a second Leyline of Lifeforce late game is essentially even less useful than a land.
Which leads into that there are no purely counter magic control decks, at least not good ones. Counter spells are always one of your best exchanges with a control deck as an aggro deck, it's nearly always 1 for 1. It's the removal and sweepers where they can get an advantage on you. You want to put steady pressure on them that puts them on the back foot, not try to strand cards in their hand. There's no guarantee that they draw only counter spells that game.
Assuming this is for Modern, most of the control decks are siding inversely in relation to this sideboarding plan. Usually some number of the counters, especially cards like Remand , are coming out against fast decks, and more removal is coming in. If they fall behind a counter spell off the top won't help them stabilize. And stuff like Cryptic Command still isn't dead against it.
Honestly, more threats, hand disruption and reach will take you much further against them then trying to make your team uncounterable.
Where the Leylines are most useful, are when they are intrinsic to protecting a gameplan. Like a combo deck that doesn't want their hand Duress ed and brings in Leyline of Sanctity or when they actually shut down an entire deck.
May 27, 2014 8:52 p.m.
Uh. Leyline of Sanctity is almost $20 and sees regular play in both Modern and Legacy; not sure what you guys are on about. Starting on turn-0, you basically can't lose against most Storm and combo decks provided they don't have an alternate win condition... and it can't be countered if it's in your opening hand.
Storm decks have other methods of winning through the Storm mechanic, though, as with the card Empty the Warrens , but Leyline of Sanctity definitely throws a wrench into its main plan of attack.
Leyline of the Void is an EDH staple and it also enjoys frequent Modern and Legacy play.
Leylines are an uncounterable (from opening hand) way to stop decks that can win on turn-1 and turn-2 if left unchecked. Back this up with "free" spells, like Force of Will and Mindbreak Trap , and you've got yourself a counter-strategy.
May 27, 2014 9:30 p.m.
zandl They don't even need Empty the Warrens if they are sideboarding correctly. Leyline of Sanctity doesn't stop them from going off, so they'll just flip the deck over until they find a Echoing Truth or any other answer and then Grapeshot you. I actually wouldn't side it in against Storm if you respect your opponents at all, and if they are that bad then they probably are not winning with Storm any ways.
May 27, 2014 9:39 p.m.
"Back this up with "free" spells, like Force of Will and Mindbreak Trap , and you've got yourself a counter-strategy."
May 27, 2014 9:42 p.m.
I'v never seen those Leyline cards before.
Looking over the gatherer these are also those 5 Chancellor cards, like Chancellor of the Annex and the Gemstone Caverns .
Magiclover318 says... #2
Leyline of Sanctity is used in modern a lot, in Hate Bears and others. The other Leylines are probably used in EDH
May 27, 2014 7:43 p.m.