I hate cathars' crusade but it's too good not to run in a kykar deck
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Aug. 11, 2020, 6:08 p.m. by Monomanamaniac
I have a problem with Cathars' Crusade in my Kykar, Wind's Fury deck for all the wrong reasons. Don't get me wrong it is a monster of a card once you consider all the token makers in the deck, but it is really annoying to keep track of all those +1/+1 counters and it ends with me having a mess of different powered spirits. Is the crusade really worth playing in the deck if it makes the deck less fun for me?
SynergyBuild says... #3
I mean, it's pretty meh in Kykar. I wouldn't run it for a competitive or casual one. Too expensive when it just gets countered or destroyed in casual, and in competitive Kykar is storming, so doesn't care about token stuff.
August 11, 2020 6:23 p.m.
Monomanamaniac says... #4
jaymc1130 that's what I said but if I don't get board wiped then crusade wins the game in 1-2 turns. My kykar deck casts a lot of non-creature spells consistently every single turn, making a lot of tokens that can be sacrificed to make more mana to cast more spells to make more tokens. With crusade out you get a huge boost of power, what's better than an army of flying 1/1 spirits? Making them 4/4 or better and going for the win. But it creates 2 feel bads, 1 I have to keep track of all that nonsense (ok so these 3 tokens have 3 counters, this one has 2 counters, and this one has 1 counter) and also it's not as much fun to sac a 7/7 flying spirit for 1 red mana as it is to sac a 1/1. But I might just take it out of the deck because fun is what it's all about and it's even less fun to my opponents who have to sit there while I add counters on top of the tokens I'm making every turn.
August 11, 2020 6:31 p.m.
bushido_man96 says... #5
This is an odd issue to have,but if it's not necessary for the deck to win, replace it.
August 11, 2020 6:37 p.m.
Monomanamaniac says... #6
bushido_man96 it's really not, I can use Shared Animosity and accomplish a similar effect
August 11, 2020 6:40 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #7
You could always switch to a combo deck running Divergent Transformations or some sort of Splinter Twin line. It's a lot less to keep track of and just wins the game barring any interaction.
Cathars' Crusade is a wonderful casual card that incentivizes remembering triggers; much like soul sisters in modern. It'll help you become a better player if you stick with it :) it's a very good exercise to play cards that require you to stay vigilant.
August 11, 2020 7:54 p.m.
I don't run that kykar for the same exact reason, its too much if a mess to keep track of, especially since you dont really "win" quick enough for people can agree that you got the game where counting the counters doesnt matter.
August 11, 2020 8:13 p.m.
I plan to rebuild my jeskai deck back to Kykar, Wind's Fury now that I've had some fun with Brallin, Skyshark Rider Flip/Shabraz, the Skyshark
When I was playing Kykar, I ordered about a dozen spirit tokens so that I'd have a way to show which individual spirit was attacking/pumped/equipped etc. That's probably the best way to accomplish Cathars' Crusade shenanigans; lots of tokens and dice.
You could order about 20 spirit tokens for $1 + shipping. Could go huge and spend $5 for 100+ hahaha it'll make your board state look massive
August 12, 2020 9:44 a.m.
GhostChieftain says... #10
There are plenty of other strong things you can run instead that you don't need all the counters for. For example, Underworld Breach can let you cast and recast all your good instants and sorceries. Likely gaining more spirits overall or making you more of a storm deck. You could also do simple cheap anthem effects because those can come into play faster. Cathar's is good, but you absolutely don't need it if you don't want it.
August 12, 2020 10:41 a.m.
Monomanamaniac says... #11
RNR_Gaming that's a decent suggestion, I like the idea of exiling spirits for real creatures, considering the deck only runs a half dozen other creatures that are all serious synergy cards.
goodair as long as it doesn't get countered it's an amazing card that does generate a ton of value. And your absolutely right, it creates a HUGE mess, especially if you have other token generators in play at the same time.
greyninja that is actually a really good idea. I'll have to figure out how to fit all those tokens on my board, but having physical tokens would drastically reduce the confusion.
GhostChieftain my build is centered on being a toolbox deck, but I actually already run breach because it lets me recur draw spells to get to my combo pieces. Still, if I take cathars' crusade out I'll likely swap it for another draw card so that only would make beach better
August 12, 2020 1:49 p.m.
GhostChieftain says... #12
More draw is a fantastic plan. There are so many viable options. I would suggest checking out some cEDH builds for something. Even if you don't want to be cEDH you can get some great ideas that have nothing to do with cathars
August 12, 2020 1:55 p.m.
Monomanamaniac says... #13
GhostChieftain I actually took it out to try out Chromatic Orrery. It's actually amazing in kykar because the deck is mainly blue but the spirits produce red, and the draw ability on the card usually lets you draw 3 cards. I know 7 is a steep cost for a spell that doesn't let you win on the spot but kykar is capable of letting you produce a lot of mana so we'll see how it goes. If it doesn't work I'll probably put in Fact or Fiction
August 12, 2020 4:15 p.m.
If the card makes the deck unfun for you, just remove it. If what it provides is important to you, just replace it with something similar. When you produce tokens, your deck is going wide. Upping the power of the tokens is only helping you win a turn or two sooner than you would anyways.
Replace the crusade with Divine Visitation. You get basically the same thing without a lot of tracking. Or go with stuff like True Conviction, Dictate of Heliod, Intangible Virtue, Akroma's Memorial or Eldrazi Monument.
There are many creature-boosting enchantments and artifacts that would aid your wins without the hassles.
Or put the tracking on one card like Call for Unity. This would give you what you are getting from the crusade but all the bookkeeping is only on the one card and not all of your tokens. It's slower to grow but a lot less bookkeeping.
August 12, 2020 11:56 p.m.
Monomanamaniac says... #15
MagicMarc wow those are some great suggestions! Divine Visitation is decent, but it turns off the spirits from making mana. Eldrazi Monument is likely to be the real contender for the spot although I am really liking Chromatic Orrery for the utility purposes. Call for Unity is a really good suggestion considering I run a light amount of proliferate. I might make room for more than one of these suggestions because they're very good for the deck and can advance the combat focus that the deck can sometimes be lacking
jaymc1130 says... #2
If it's not fun then what's the point? Subjecting oneself to self instigated torture doesn't seem like the goal of playing a game of magic. Competitive magic, maybe, sure, at the professional level to prepare and play in professional tournaments with the goal of earning a living. Otherwise I can't imagine causing your own grief to be a worthwhile venture.
August 11, 2020 6:14 p.m.