Manaless and Bananaless

Commander / EDH EleshNornsFs

SCORE: 10 | 23 COMMENTS | 718 VIEWS | IN 5 FOLDERS


Mana Severance? Help Needed —Oct. 8, 2020

As the deck is right now, I'd call it a 3. It is essentially a one card combo, so when it can play the Citadel soon enough it can be a 5 or 6, but if it can't, it's a 1. I figure splitting the difference is okay. In the original thread for this deck, Reznor indicated, he was hoping for more of a 7.5. I am trying to explore some options to increase consistency. First (and more minor of an issue) is a problem when you have the Citadel out. The first several cards are going to take a huge toll on life total. It is entirely possible that the top of your deck ends up being nothing but mana rocks and MDFC's, so that you don't gain enough life to keep the storm going. A possiblity I was considering was adding an extra wincon in the form of Consuming Aberration or Sanguine Bond. They are a little mana expensive, but can be quite devastating. They also makes up for the problem of hitting Brain Freeze or Tendrils of Agony too soon in the storm count to actually deck someone, and if you have to stop casting, it still leaves you with a monster creature to swing with or a little set up for the next turn.

The other issue is getting enough land. The most common solution that comes up is Mana Severance. It would allow for the use of land in order to stay consistent in the early game, but still allow you to cast a landless library. I am a little wary of including it, because it would be another hurdle to the combo. It is an additional tutor to draw and cast to find it, and depending on the tutor, an extra turn before I can even cast the extra spell, before I cast the Citadel. I'm not sure how I feel about it, but would love some input.

RNR_Gaming says... #1

So, I'm a huge fan of Whir of Invention and Reshape for Bolas's Citadel lines. Additionally, lowering your curve with aggressively costed high impact beaters like Serra Ascendant could help you run things like Ad Nauseam with maybe Angel's Grace to be extra degenerate and just rip through your deck. Necropotence, Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora cannot be beat when it comes to draw engines.

September 29, 2020 4:11 p.m.

EleshNornsFs says... #2

RNR_Gaming You have some interesting suggestions, but I don't quite know if they are what the deck is looking for. The main use of Whir of Invention and Reshape would be to tutor for the Citadel, but at the cost of 7 or 8 mana, in a deck that already struggles to produce 6. Additionally, in a deck that's main source of mana is in artifacts, the improvise ability on Whir doesn't actually reduce the cost. They are incredibly helpful in the scenario that you do have enough mana but no Citadel. I will definitely consider them as substitutes for some of the other tutors. Ad Nauseam feels redundant to the Citadel, although it does not allow you to do the lifegain rituals, so I don't think it is a good fit. Serra Ascendant definitely is a good fit though. As for the draw engines, I am unsure how to feel. I think they would make good budget substitutes for Scroll Rack and Sensei's Divining Top.

September 29, 2020 5:04 p.m.

RNR_Gaming says... #3

Never replace top in a citadel deck lol...

September 29, 2020 5:12 p.m.

EleshNornsFs says... #4

That is a good point, RNR_Gaming and although I don't often use the top in conjunction with the Citadel (due to being mana starved) it does enough work in the early game to justify its slot. I switched out Cruel Tutor (redundant) and Personal Tutor (used only to tutor another tutor) for Reshape and Whir of Invention. I also switched Goldnight Redeemer (situational gains and high cost) for Serra Ascendant and Scroll Rack (budget and clunkiness) for Rhystic Study. Does that seem wise to you? I didn't want Remora because it is too mana hungry, and I passed on Necropotence because the Citadel is supposed to go off on a single turn.

September 29, 2020 9 p.m.

RNR_Gaming says... #5

You don't need mana to play things if you have citadel out; maybe I'm misunderstanding - but the point of top with citadel is to storm out with Aetherflux Reservoir. Redundancy is also a good thing in most cases unless you dispose linar game play. However, I do like your swaps but I urge you to give Necropotence a shot, being able to reload your hand each turn or using it as part of a combo feels fantastic.

September 29, 2020 9:30 p.m.

EleshNornsFs says... #6

I guess it would help if I better explained the play pattern. In my testing, I can usually get the Citadel in hand before I have the mana to cast it. As soon as I have the ability to play it, I do and use it that turn. Because of the lifegain cards and the lack of lands am capable of casting the whole library. While it works best if I already have Aetherflux Reservoir, it isn't necessary. Chances are that the storm count is so high by the time I cast it that even if it were the second to last card, it would still get the job done, and if not Sphinx-Bone Wand, Brain Freeze, and Tendrils of Agony should finish it. In short, once I have the Citadel out, I usually don't have any mana to activate the Top, and if I did, it wouldn't matter horribly much because I will probably cast it all anyway.

September 30, 2020 12:31 p.m.

RNR_Gaming says... #7

I actually just noticed I dont see lands anywhere. Is this a landless deeck?

September 30, 2020 4:34 p.m.

EleshNornsFs says... #8

It is, sort of. The only lands are MDFC's, which is how the Citadel can cast the whole library in a single turn.

September 30, 2020 8:03 p.m.

RNR_Gaming says... #9

Maybe go the Mana Severance route? no lands is super rough in commander.

October 1, 2020 12:18 a.m.

EleshNornsFs says... #10

Someone suggested mana severance options in the original thread, but I chose not to go that route for a couple reasons. First, it is another hurdle to jump through before you can cast the Citadel, which is yet another thing to blow tutors on and second, the jank route just seemed a little more fun.

October 1, 2020 8:05 a.m.