sonnet666 Contamination packages usually involve some number of Reassembling Skeletons. Nantuko Husk in conjunction with Sorin Markov can easily read "kill target player" since you can just sac the skeleton a few times for lethal damage easily.

Contamination would be the best/easiest way for a mono B deck to hate out other decks. It seems a logical direction to take it since we can't really ramp into sorin TOO fast, there are options of course but BBB is a lot of color to come up with. I suppose T2 sorin isn't outside the realm of possibility but eh.

Also, keeping in mind that setting someones life total to 10, while not outright winning the game can put a cramp on someone looking to win via ad naus/necropotence.

I'm not saying sorin is bannable but he certainly isn't garbage is the only point I was trying to make.

I'm aware cmc restriction is meant as a loose guideline but SOOOO many cEDH players take it as a solid unbreakable rule. It happens quite a lot and It's a little frustrating.

So... Solid Tier 3?

I feel like we're saying the same things just differently.

I'd say more than T3 personally just because I've actually seen it in action.

I know there's not a whole lot of more fine tuned Borborygmos Enraged deck lists out there, so I figured that I could link my deck list that includes a primer that goes over card choices and general strategy.

Huge Tracts of Lands

Commander / EDH* invigorate_berserk10

SCORE: 4 | 4 COMMENTS | 856 VIEWS

Hey all, given Lilbrudder's comment, I've thrown together a Saffi Eriksdotter lists based off my paper one but that has no budget:

Just Stay Dead: cEDH Edition

Commander / EDH* enpc

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I would be keen to get people's thoughts on it as well.

What is the major differences between a T2 and T2.5 deck? What main factors separate those?

So... How would sorin be tier2?
looks to me like
T4- Sorin, put someone at ten.
T5- bump +2
T6- Ibid
T7- put some one at ten
T8- Bump + 2
T10- put the last player at ten

All the while you need to keep Sorin Alive, figure out how to deal 30 more damage (in black) while also keeping whatever stax lock you made (T1-3) (I'm assuming that the deck is capable of 5 mana T4 which also takes away from setting up a stax lock) Additionally, Sorin's ability doesn't deal 30 damage so the Adnaus/Necro person (the people that will be hit hardest) are fine as long as they beat you to it

Not hating or anything (OK maybe that was a little vhement) But Sorin seems more like kallia and purph in that their Jerks, but that doesn't mean their good.

(All the same I like being a jerk so if someone makes a sorin list I'll probably play it, lol.

So... How would sorin be tier2?
looks to me like
T4- Sorin, put someone at ten.
T5- bump +2
T6- Ibid
T7- put some one at ten
T8- Bump + 2
T10- put the last player at ten

All the while you need to keep Sorin Alive, figure out how to deal 30 more damage (in black) while also keeping whatever stax lock you made (T1-3) (I'm assuming that the deck is capable of 5 mana T4 which also takes away from setting up a stax lock) Additionally, Sorin's ability doesn't deal 30 damage so the Adnaus/Necro person (the people that will be hit hardest) are fine as long as they beat you to it

Not hating or anything (OK maybe that was a little vhement) But Sorin seems more like kallia and purph in that their Jerks, but that doesn't mean their good.

(All the same I like being a jerk so if someone makes a sorin list I'll probably play it, lol.

freakingShane: I think the difference is that tier 2 decks can hold thier own in tier 1 environments, whereas tier 2.5 decks are missing a couple important cards needed to be relevant. For instance Food Chain Zegana is just a couple tutors away from being a viable deck.

No, the Sorin line is simple. All you need is 35 mana, Claws of Gix, Panharmonicon, and Gray Merchant of Asphodel.

Play Sorin, set opponent 1 life to 10, sac Sorin to Claws of Gix, replay Sorin, set opponent 2 life to 10, sac to Claws of Gix, replay Sorin, set opponent 3 life to 10, play Panharmonicon, play Gray Merchant, gg.

It's totally practical and not infeasible at all and you're very likely to get over 30 mana playing mono-black and this planeswalker discussion is a very good use of our time here and I'm not being sarcastic about any of this.

Gates88: You can go much more easily than that. Just play Wound Reflection, then next turn play Sorin with Rings of Brighthearth and Strionic Resonator. Set a player's life to 10, then copy it and copy the copy. Then just end the turn and they die to wound reflection. It's like you're over thinking this or something :P

Lilbrudder that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification!

Lilbrudder that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification!

aight guys. I tried to make a fast, powerful Shirei deck: this

u like?

aight guys. I tried to make a fast, powerful Shirei deck: this

u like?

illumfolly, needs Infernal Darkness, and I'd prefer if you had a gameplan beyond "make things come back from the yard a lot." Can you think of any combos that fit? Mike&Trike might work, especially since Triskelion can function with Shirei to clear out your opponent's boards in between turns, but the deck would need more of a reanimator subtheme to support it. You can definitely cut a lot of the 3 and 4 mana stuff, like Disciple of Phenax and Falkenrath Noble.

enpc that is exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned making alternate lists. You did a great job of streamlining and not being attached to cards or lines of play, which can be really difficult when evaluating your own deck, so good job, really nice work.

I think the cards you cut are also really great examples of how paper lists often look different than in-theory, competitive, "optimized" lists. There are certain cards that are super fun and interactive to play with in real life, like Titania or Gift of Immortality from your list, that you don't want to cut from you deck because of advantages they afford you, the player, like fun or meta advantages, but become slightly outclassed when you move into a vacuum with no budget, where all you're trying to do is just win as quickly as you can. That doesn't mean it wrong or non-competitive for players to play those cards, just like players aren't non-competitive if their decks don't look exactly like the lists posted here. It just just means that the cards they're playing are affording them different advantages than what is generally considered optimal.

Anyway, discourse over, you should totally port your primer over to the new list, or link back to your other decklist, or both. (Also, I love your Wrath of God alter, definitely keep that included.)

Lastly, and this may just be me, but I totally think you could keep Crucible of Worlds in the streamlined version, especially if you freed up some u-land slots for Wasteland, Tectonic Edge and maybe Dust Bowl. Do you really need Mikokoro, Center of the Sea and Miren, the Moaning Well? The life isn't really worthwhile, and the Altar of Dementia combo kills people just as easily when you pass the turn. Also, neither Mikokoro or Selvala are really card advantage like you say in your primer, they're card parity. Card advantage, at least in my book, is only when you get more cards than your opponents.

sonnet666: Thank you for your kind words :D it's good to know I'm heading the right direction.

I will definately be keeping my Wrath of God Alter (I need to get a higher res version of it done). Also, as a side note, I finally got the D.Va cute spray last night, thank you Zarya for ulting next to my mech :P

I'm not sure if I will do a primer for this one or just a simple breakdown and link to the primer in my main one (and from my main one to this deck). The other thing is that the primer is a quite out of date. I was thinking of talking about different builds in the new version I've been writing (for the last 12 months, real life has been super busy this last year) and then just talking about the basics of the combo in the cEDH one.

As for the deck itself, I had considered including Crucible of Worlds / Wasteland / Tectonic Edge (which is better than Dust Bowl) but was on the fence about it. Could be worth including though. Miren, the Moaning Well is just another sac outlet on a land which is super usefule for things liek Academy Rector.

Mikokoro and Selvala are carry-overs to help deal with opponent's reshuffle effects. I'm not sure how common these are so I thought I would leave them in (at worst Mikokoro is a colourless land) and with typically lower land counts, Selvala should be tapping for ~3 mana a hit. Though I am open to ideas for replacements.

Gates88 the explanation for sorin makes sense, HOWEVER! now we are looking at a 4 card mana intensive combo with a generall that adds very little value outside of the combo. Frankly at 32 you can probably win with exanginuate, a nod to Oloro though...

enpc to the best of my knowledge This combo doesn't work as Sorin does not cause damage or life loss (think about it if you at 2 health then Sorin's ability is actually life GAIN)

Setting a life total is loss of life/gain life as per the comprehensive rules. (loss/gain depends on the direction of the set)

118.5 If an effect sets a players life total to a specific number, the player gains or loses the necessary amount of life to end up with the new total.

Dunadain - From the Comp Rules: 118.5. If an effect sets a players life total to a specific number, the player gains or loses the necessary amount of life to end up with the new total.

Thx, Ill still point out it's a 4 card combo that fizzles if any player is below 20 life

I'll point out that that's the point :P I posted it as a joke to try and make a really convoluted way of using Sorin to kill 3 players in one hit.

So, a friend of mine is taking a stab at Thrassios + Vial Smasher but he wants to do the turns version, he's looking to make it competitive as possible but some pricy staples may be out of reach, feel free to suggest anything.

This pair and combo is a little out of my wheelhouse so anyone with some experience plz halp.

Party at Vial Smasher's !!!

I hate the be that guy, but there are many ways to build Thrasios-Smasher than turns. Storm, Eggs, Hermit Druid, Reanimator, even Twin combo. All have one or more advantages over Turns, be it less dead/overcosted combo pieces or better commander synergy. Thrasios-Smasher's only real synergy with Turns is Vial Smasher's ability to deal small amounts of damage off your high-cost spells, which isn't significant in multiplayer. I'd recommend your friend switch to another build.

NarejED Feel free to let him know, I'm not an expert on the pair as I said.