Just looking at this deck makes me want to foil all of my decks :)

Flooremoji:

Thanks, I'm going to take that as a compliment, if nothing else the foil overlay on tappedout is just very satisfying. I will say though, while it feels great to own a foiled out deck that is quad-sleeved (yes I have quad-sleeved this deck in paper because, as my friends tell me, I'm crazy) whenever I want to test something it can get quite annoying :p I don't know when I'm going to cave and get the foil Veil of Summer's that I now need lol, and add to that that whenever I want to test something it feels like an obligation to get a foil just in case, as evidenced by the foil alt art Grim Tutor I have sitting on my desk right now lol.

I know your comment is lighthearted, but also thanks for bringing it up as it gives me a bit of a chance to warn some players, who may want to get into heavy foiling, as to the amount of "hidden" costs in doing so, as far as testing and the ever-shifting landscape of the format are concerned. So anyone who is scrolling through the comments, KEEP THIS IS MIND if you go to foil one of your decks, especially outside of Commander.

On a slightly different note, thanks for all your support Flooremoji over the years on this deck, and the always insightful and kind words, it does not go unnoticed and I appreciate it very much :)

Lets not get ahead of ourselves... insightful is a bit much :)

so i run 4 necromentia mainboard in a mono black controlish deck do i just win if i get ad nauseam ?

mikeb388:

Thanks for the comment, about 6 months ago the answer to that question was generally yes, now, while it will put me at a severe disadvantage, it does not remove my ability to win thanks to Thassa's Oracle, specifically the game wining combination of Thassa's Oracle, Spoils of the Vault, and either Phyrexian Unlife or Angel's Grace. There is also the outside possibility I can win using Simian Spirit Guide to beat you down. In fact, while effects like Necromentia are very good against Ad Nauseam, there are some nuances to playing it correctly.

Necromentia and similar effects such as Lost Legacy or Unmoored Ego have the drawback of being 3 mana, this effectively means that you have to be smart about your name, keeping in mind whether you are on the play or the draw. For example, if I have opened the game by playing a Pentad Prism on turn 2, I may not be so inclined to name Ad Nauseam on turn 3 if I am on the play, the reason for this being that the more immediate win is the Thassa's Oracle method outlined above. The name in the face of that combo will depend some on circumstance, but generally Angel's Grace or Thassa's Oracle would be the correct choice. On the draw I'm almost always naming Ad Nauseam with something like Necromentia as in order to cast Necromentia one has had to have passed the earliest window for the Thassa's Oracle kill.

I would argue however that Thoughtseize + Surgical Extraction is a generally more powerful and efficient means of combating me as it can be done on turn 1, but Necromentia and its ilk are very effective. One other thing to note is that sometimes lines will present themselves that may seem awkward, let's do a thought experiment and say you are on the play, I pass turn 3 with a Lotus Bloom coming down next turn meaning, in essence, you have to assume that I can win next turn. You go to turn 4 and draw a Necromentia; you play a land and have 4 mana available. In hand you also have a Thoughtseize. The tempting play here would be to fire off the Necromentia and name Ad Nauseam, likely preventing me from winning next turn and buying you, in all likelihood, a lot of time to just land a threat and beat me. However, the correct sequence here would be to Thoughtseize first and look at my hand. For sake of argument we will say that my hand is Angel's Grace, Ad Nauseam, a land, and Lightning Storm. Again the tempting play may be now to take the Ad Nauseam or the Angel's Grace, but the correct answer is to take Lightning Storm, especially considering your hypothetical hand. With Lightning Storm gone, the only card left in my deck that actually wins the game is Thassa's Oracle, meaning you can then Necromentia that away and win on the spot. This could seem like an obvious line to you but I have had people miss it in the past and feel its best to have this articulated on this page.

In short then, yes and no, you don't technically win the game by naming Ad Nauseam with Necromentia, but fundamentally the game is probably over unless I find the auxiliary combo fast enough. Thanks again for the comment I hope my response was adequate.

yea i see what u mean and i also see that u run blue have u thought about weather main or sideboard miscast it can counter early game hand hate or necromentia and the like and it is only 1 mana. I feel that hand hate is bad for u and surgical extraction.

mikeb388:

Miscast is definitely a cool card, and I can see its sideboard applications in certain decks, however as far as this deck is concerned, Veil of Summer is strictly better as, not only does it turn off targeted discard and protect me from Necromentia-like effects, but in doing this it also replaces itself via drawing a card. It is also a superior "counter-like" effect, in large part because it is one of the few cards that can actually answer Dovin's Veto. For these reasons, I would rather have the green counter, also taking into consideration it isn't difficult for me to make green mana.

I'm also not sure I would even say Miscast is my second choice for the role you specify; that would likely be Swan Song which may be an easier point of comparison as both have their drawbacks. The benefit to Swan Song is that it is always a hard counter, yes if it has to be used early then it can give our opponent some measure of inevitability, but considering we are looking to win relatively quickly this usually isn't a problem. Miscast, while it doesn't provide our opponent with a way to win, is not a hard counter, and while it could be useful turn 1 to deal with discard, it can be very underwhelming and potentially damaging in matchups where I am expecting a counter war when I try to win, both Veil of Summer and Swan Song don't suffer from this problem.

In other words, while I think Miscast is a very good card that isn't getting enough attention, I don't believe this is the deck for it, that spot would likely be as the 60th card in a UW control list. The issue you identify with early game hate is already well covered by Veil of Summer and Leyline of Sanctity out of the board, and I would say discard heavy matchups tend to be fairly even or even favorable for me postboard. Additionally, Necromentia effects just don't see a lot of play in modern, Surgical Extraction also doesn't see a ton of play anymore with Faithless Looting gone. I also have 7 dedicated cards to this problem already which unfortunately renders Miscast surplus to requirements. The truth is, I don't fear discard, I can still dig afterwards assuming I have no way to answer it or an active Leyline of Sanctity, playing against discard is really a matter of experience, sure there are times they will just bury you but you have to be able to move on from those with a deck like Ad Nauseam lol. People playing Necromentia effects like yourself have an extra tool for the matchup, a tool that I would say pushes the balance into your favor as it represents just a tad extra flexibility and an effect that, if it resolves, can be detrimental, but I'm not overtly worried about them for the reason's outlined above postboard; though there is a good chance I may lose game one.

Thank you again for your comment its very much appreciated :) I hope I make a good case! Good draws, from what little you describe, this mono-black brew you have sounds pretty cool :)

Vale,

Oloro