Optimal Manabase for tri-colored commander
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on April 16, 2015, 10:04 a.m. by GeminiSpartanX
So I'm looking to upgrade the manabase in my Jeleva, Temptress to your Spells deck. The deck has many mono-colored spells that are double or triple costed, so I'd like your guys' opinion on the order of importance of dual colored lands in commander. I know that ABUR duals are the best, but after those what would your order be? For example, would you run checklands before painlands?
Epochalyptik says... #3
If you're running a large number of nonbasics, you might want to prioritize pains over checks because they always come in untapped.
April 16, 2015 10:18 a.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #4
Thanks for the comment Epochalyptik! I'm also curious as to how you'd prioritize basics in relation to the various CIPT lands like the refuges, bouncelands, vivids and scrylands in a 3 color deck. I do agree that your 3-3-9 philosophy is the ideal, but in my Jeleva deck I feel like throwing in all the fetches would dillute the overall amount of mana available to me. I generally want 10+ color-producing lands in play with my deck and I feel like thinning out 2 lands per drop would leave me somewhat mana screwed in the late game when the deck finally starts becoming a threat. (My playgroup is semi-competitive, but not to the point where they combo-kill the whole table by turn 6.)
April 16, 2015 10:54 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
Deck thinning is, mathematically, pretty irrelevant unless you're playing 3+ lands per turn or measuring over the course of many, many turns. The security and flexibility provided by immediate color fixing is vastly more significant.
Refuges and their new KTK-block counterparts are bad. You should avoid CIPT lands that don't offer significant bonuses. Ideally, you wouldn't run any CIPT lands except for staple utility lands like Boseiju, Who Shelters All. Bounce lands are ok if you don't have much LD in your meta. Temples are ok if you can't get any of the CIPU lands I mentioned in my previous posts.
April 16, 2015 11:05 a.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #6
Epochalyptik- Perhaps you could do me a favor and take a look at what lands I have so far for my deck? I'd like to get some personal feedback if at all possible.
April 16, 2015 11:13 a.m.
Indigoindigo says... #7
Epochalyptiks deck Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition might give you some additional tips for fixing like Forbidden Orchard or Cephalid Coliseum
How do you rate Mana Confluence, City of Brass and Halimar Depths?
April 16, 2015 11:21 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
Unless you have an outstanding reason not to, you should be playing the multilands.
Halimar Depths is ok in casual and semicompetitive, and it may be decent in monocolored or bicolored competitive decks. It's not the best, though, and tricolored decks will normally want a CIPU land and can cover the utility element with another card.
April 16, 2015 11:29 a.m.
FinchFalcon says... #9
So, forgive the newb who doesn't know yet... Which nice fetches are we talking about? In a three color deck, that's at most two allied fetches from Onslaught and two from Mirage, plus one enemy from Zendikar, which is only five. Does the nine include things like the tri-fetch panoramas and evolving wilds, etc?
April 16, 2015 12:07 p.m.
When creating a mana base for an EDH deck, I like going to ManabaseCrafter. Choose your general and it will populate lands as well as mana rocks usable in your color(s).
April 16, 2015 12:14 p.m.
architectofgoo says... #11
FinchFalcon I believe he was referring to all 9 Zendkiar+Onslaught fetches that access any of your colors. Leave out Windswept Heath for a Grixis deck, for instance.
April 16, 2015 12:25 p.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #12
The Halimar Depths is in there only for the synergy with Jeleva as another way to know if it looks good to cast her or should I take another draw step to get another land out of the way first. Until I can get a Scroll Rack or replace the Crystal Ball with Sensei's Divining Top it is there to help manipulate my topdecks. My commander games go fairly long, so I've been hesitant to use the City of Brass/Mana Confluence lands since the damage from them does add up. However I will try and add in Reflecting Pool and Forbidden Orchard, since I forgot about those ones.
April 16, 2015 12:35 p.m.
SimicPower says... #13
FinchFalcon: Since the fetch lands don't have color symbols in their text box, they actual all have a colorless color identity. This means you can run any of them in a deck of any combination. In three color, playing the one that is none of your colors is useless since it can't fetch anything, so 9 fetchlands it is.
April 16, 2015 12:42 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #14
@FinchFalcon: You should never be playing the Mirage fetches.
Between the ONS and ZEN fetches, every color pair is represented once. In a tricolor deck, only the fetch representing both of the colors not in the deck will be useless. All nine other fetches are still relevant to at least one of the basic land types playable in the deck.
April 16, 2015 12:50 p.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #15
One last thing- Until I can get the ABUR duals (I have none to my name), would it be worth it to run fetches with just the 3 shocks that I use? Or would me finishing out the painlands be better additions in the meantime?
April 16, 2015 1:57 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #16
Fetches are only worthwhile if you play at least all three of the shocks. Get the three fetches that are completely in your colors. After that, you can choose to run pain or check lands or keep adding fetches in preparation for the ABUR duals.
April 16, 2015 2:05 p.m.
A note on check lands: Any deck running black will essentially have extra versions of these in the form of the tainted cycle (Tainted Field, Tainted Peak, Tainted Isle and Tainted Wood). I actually rank these a little bit above check lands as they'll always CIPU even if they only tap for colorless that turn. I also like the Alara panorama cycle for this reason, although those are not optimal in any regard.
And for decks more interested in ramping than having early plays, Krosan Verge and Myriad Landscape are both pretty solid.
Epochalyptik says... #2
In general, the 3-3-9 (3 ABUR duals, 3 shocks, 9 fetches) is the optimal foundation for a tricolor deck's land base.
Barring those, pain lands and check lands are the best. Filters can be ok, but they have a downside in that they don't produce color unless you pay into them (which makes them almost useless for casting 1-drop spells).
Checks have this weird thing where they're really good when you have a suboptimal base because you'll be running many basics, get worse as you improve the land base with nonbasics, and get better again as you add the most optimal duals.
April 16, 2015 10:17 a.m.