|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Commander 2017 (C17)||Mythic Rare|
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Mythic Rare|
|Conspiracy (CNS)||Mythic Rare|
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- Question about Control and losing the game.
- With Marchesa, the Black Rose work with creature tokens?
- If a player board wipes while Marchesa is in play, can you still return creatures to the battlefield?
- Marchesa, the Black Rose and Undying
- How does Living Death work with Zombie Mikaeus and Marchesa?
Marchesa, the Black Rose
Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
Dethrone *(Whenever this creature attacks the player with the most life or tied for most life, put a +1/+1 counter on it.) *
Other creatures you control have dethrone.
Whenever a creature you control with a +1/+1 counter on it dies, return that card to the battlefield under your control at the beginning of the next end step.
Commander Recommendations Start Commander Deck
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Marchesa, the Black Rose Discussion
5 days ago
jimmyfoas the choose to play no recursion is due at my meta graveyards hate. At the beginning me and my friends have abused about playing from the graveyard so the hate has grown and sometimes my recursion inside this deck have becomed a dead draw. In the previous list i ran Sun Titan but i cut it off because he has never been so decisive in the matches. Now, in the last month, it seems that graveyards hate has lowered a tiny bit, I will think about Yawgmoth's Will , it s too good to stay out and it is a second chance for trigger Ad Nauseam combo if the first chance go bad, the same is for Animate Dead , another card that i would add in the list. Another reason for the which i don t play recursion is that i play Rest in Peace . I play against a lot of archetype that pass by graveyards for combo or mechanic as Ghave, Guru of Spores , Scion of the Ur-Dragon or Kess, Dissident Mage , Muldrotha, the Gravetide , Marchesa, the Black Rose so it frequently happen that i have tutor for RIP. With RIP in play i stop their engine but as you could imagine all my recursion are useless, this last one is probably the main reason for which I don t play recursion. I hope to have exhaustively respond to your question . Thanks again for comment.
3 weeks ago
Hey, saw your forum topic asking for help.
Good start here for your first Commander deck. The decklist is missing Marchesa, the Black Rose , no image of her card. To make her the official Commander of your deck then add her to the decklist in the editor with a CMDR tag.
1x Marchesa the Black Rose *CMDR*
Marchesa can benefit from a combo and that's why Sage of Fables is a card to consider adding. Sage combos with Wizards with persist and undying creatures because it removes the -1/-1 counter of persist by canceling the counter with a +1/+1 counter. Sage can also remove the +1/+1 counter from an undying creature allowing it to keep undying. If not using Sage with a combo then she can be a good source of repeatable draw by removing a +1/+1 counter from a creature.
This combo mills your opponents which puts creatures into their graveyards, then you steal those creatures with Puppeteer and attack your opponents with those creatures. Puppeteer can repeatedly steal opponents creatures from their graveyards, or gain control of them with Marchesa, or exile them after you attack with them. Since Puppeteer is a Wizard when it ETB (enters the battlefield) Sage can put a +1/+1 counter on it. When it dies it has persist, but it doesn't ETB with a -1/-1 counter instead it ETB with no counter since the +1/+1 counter that Sage puts on it cancels out the -1/-1 counter. This interaction lets you repeatedly sac Puppeteer and it repeatedly comes back onto the battlefield.
The Puppeteer combo with Sage doesn't require Marchesa, but with her on the battlefield you can potentially gain control of opponents creatures your stole with Puppeteer. This interaction works because you can sac your opponents creatures before your end step. Doing this means that each creature that's saced will not get exiled. The creatures that attacked the player with the highest life total get a +1/+1 counter thanks to dethrone; if they're saced after getting the counter they will return to the battlefield under your control.
Other budget dual lands to consider adding:
Cards to consider cutting:
- Vivid Crag
- Vivid Creek
- Vivid Marsh
- Crosis's Catacombs
- Visage of Bolas
- Nicol Bolas, the Deceiver
- Dark Privilege
- Portent of Betrayal
- Press into Service
- Slave of Bolas
- Yawgmoth's Vile Offering
Unless you have a way to put more counters on a Vivid land then they're not worth playing, too slow and not reliably enough. Cards that are a repeatable source of stealing your opponents creatures are better than cards that are a single effect. Five mana to steal one creature is too much mana if you're only getting to do it once. Because you have Nicol Bolas you don't also need to play the Deceiver since Deceiver is a much worse card. Good luck with your deck.
3 weeks ago
Thanks for the upvote and the suggestions!
Yeah Zombie Infestation is definitely one of my favorites.
At first, I was skeptical about the Syr Konrad, the Grim idea, because it seemed to be doing exactly what our combo was doing, and I didn't want to use up another card slot for another Altar of Dementia , but after some thought, I'm starting to reconsider. Maybe Konrad doesn't need a combo to be deadly. I'm picturing a scenario with Konrad on the battlefield, and then resolving a Living Death . Or even just drawing a whole bunch of cards, then discarding a whole bunch of creatures. It'll be something interesting to try out.
I put Desecrated Tomb into my Marchesa, the Black Rose deck, and it did really well, but I don't think it'll do too well in Hogaak's case. In general, I try to stray away from exiling creatures from my graveyard, but even if I did start exiling them, I don't picture myself getting that many bats....
I've never been too much into the token build. I usually don't need a whole bunch of tokens to replay Hogaak, though there are a couple times when I'm short on creatures. I don't think I'll need the Plague of Vermin or the Spontaneous Generation if I'm being honest.
I feel like for each person who makes this deck, they have to make the decision between Hermit Druid and Traverse the Outlands . I personally think I'm fine without the Hermit, so that's why I don't include it and have the Traverse instead.
Now Cadaverous Bloom .... Wow. Just wow. I think this card is busted, and I'm surprised that this is the first time I've ever heard of it. I know it exiles, but that's a small enough price to pay when you're drawing 8 cards a turn. A definite include.
I think I've put in and taken out Skirge Familiar twice now. It's good, but sometimes I need to replace it with some better stuff. For example, that Cadaverous Bloom you just mentioned! If I have the space, I'll add it in.
I think Living Death is enough. I don't particularly need a whole bunch of mass recursion.
Again, thanks for the suggestions! I know I'm rejecting a whole lot of them, but I'd rather stay honest, than give people my false opinions. But that doesn't mean people shouldn't give me a whole bunch of suggestions; the more the merrier!
3 weeks ago
My thoughts on it are:
1: The color swap MUST be a Commander's PRIMARY color i.e. Green w/ Animar, Black w/ either Marchesa, etc. (playgroup vote in the case of no clear primary color). This prevents you from just adding a few cards and forces a big change up.
2: Playgroup Votes before you even attempt the change. You won't get away with something degenerate like adding green to Marchesa, the Black Rose .
3: A little honesty goes a long way. Explain your planned deck strategy and if you've noticed a card that would be too OP... offer to not run it or let them know you'll drop it immediately if it turns out to be too OP (i.e. W/U Sisay I'd offer to omit Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage )
1 month ago
Depending on your color/s these are what I would go with personally. My favorite choice is marchesa.
3 color- Marchesa, the Black Rose
4 color- Saskia the Unyielding
5 color- Morophon, the Boundless
Interestingly morophon allows you to play another phoenix. Worldheart Phoenix
1 month ago
I don't like the idea of being mono red. Jori En, Ruin Diver would work out nicely because Phoenix's always find a way back to your hand or battlefield so there's a place for good card advantage with Jori En, Ruin Diver .
Marchesa, the Black Rose would work nicely too for the added recurring resilience that Phoenix's already have. Marchesa also is in some strong color's with black and blue
1 month ago
Secondly, when it comes to casual commander, the one thing I have learnt is that as a general rule, people suck at deckbuilding. That's not a dig at anyone in particular, but the common theme I notice is that people just don't want to devote deck slots to things like ramp or card advantage. They want to play all of the big, splahsy spells and as such their deck suffers. This especially goes for white. White has some very powerful creatures with quite board altering effects, however to offset it they are expensive to play.
Yet time and time again I see decks ruuning really heavy curves with minimal ramp or card advantage and then people wondering why their deck is running slowly. But they don't want to cut the big, fun spells to actually make their deck work properly. Again, I don't see how that is the fault of the colour pie.
This is where our experiences differ, and I can't refute what you have experienced with the format, and it's perfectly valid. It's just not what I've experienced. "Casual" commander, in my experience, involves crazy infinite combos, huge board presence, artifact ramp, etc. When I go down to my LGS to play commander night, and a guy sits down with Marchesa, the Black Rose , I can expect him to combo off turns 4-6 if nobody stops him. That's "casual", as I've experienced it. And that's not even a very optimized combo commander imo.
Within my personal playgroup, we tend not to be that... aggressive about our deckbuilding, because we do like big splashy spells, but we understand that we need to ramp into those spells for them to be viable. Even then things can happen, I can drop Bolas's Citadel turn 3-4, reveal Aetherflux Reservoir and just go off.
Now onto decks that are playing good artifact integration and yet are still falling behind, how many of these are then leveraging the stax effects that white offers? Because again, if you're not slwoing your opponents down because you choose to not run certain cards because they are "unfun", then that's on you.
The issue here isn't with "unfun" necessarily, it's with making yourself a target. With the level of decks I'm used to going up against, if I just drop a Rule of Law , I can expect that I probably won't get another turn this game. Because the moment I throw that on the stack, I have sent the message to the rest of the table that if they don't kill me ASAP, they have no chance. I do tend to run some of White's stax-type effects in my white decks, but I can't include too many or they'll clog up my hand because honestly, the important part with these kinds of cards in EDH isn't the deckbuilding, so much as it is the play sequencing. You have to play around the fact that these cards turn your opponents against you, and if you aren't prepared to deal with a 3v1, playing these cards will kill you.
I'm sure that there are some good white decks that still get outpaced by their bretheren of different colours. But at the end of the day, you're never going to strike a perfect symmerty with all colours and all commanders across all levels of play within a format.
This I agree with. The game will never be perfectly balanced. But as eternal formats go, the disparity between White/Red and Blue/Green/Black in EDH seems significantly larger than color disparity in other formats imo. It's enough that I've watched newbies catch on to it pretty fast. People with no previous knowledge of the format, getting into it, and figuring out that White is just bad.
Arcane Signet and a few other "command zone" based cards are not relevant in any format where there is no commander, however the kind of white based ramp you're descibing wouldn't fall within this.
Perhaps I've described it poorly then, because Arcane Signet is exactly what I want. I want to see it printed more, and I want to see more cards like it. It alone, in my experience in the short time I've had to play around with it, has done wonders to help close the gap on ramp between colors. It's actually better than most green ramp cards, unless your deck cares about lands specifically. Arcane Signet is available to all decks of all colors (barring mono-colorless), and provides colored ramp for 2. For green decks, this is often a slightly worse Nature's Lore . For decks weaker in ramp like White, it's just great. The closest comparison I can even find for it in White is Marble Diamond . And wow. Just wow.
give white some more powerful stax effects, preferably ones that got stronger based on the number of player still in the game
This is a pretty cool idea though! I'm not sure how this would work out exactly, but I'd be interested to see something like Undaunted becoming a White thing, as opposed to a one-off single-cycle throwaway keyword. The idea of fending off multiple foes at once has always been a pretty White concept imo, with cards like Guardian of the Gateless , Grasp of Fate , etc. It seems kind of ironic to me though that White would then struggle in a multiplayer format.
1 month ago
Marchesa, the Black Rose - Her ability enables permanent theft even out of temporary theft effects like Act of Treason or Sower of Temptation . If it has a +1+1 counter when it dies, it goes to its owner's grave til end of turn, then comes back permanently under your control.
Marchesa, the Black Rose occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%
UBR (Grixis): 0.53%