Will Phyrexian Mana Return?
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Nov. 3, 2022, 10:31 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
With a massive battle between Dominaria and Phyrexia soon to occur, I hope that Phyrexian mana shall return, as I think that it is a very fascinating and flavorful mechanic, but, thus far, WotC has been very cautious with it, which disappoints me, so I would like to see it return in greater prevalence, soon.
What does everyone else say about this? Will Phyrexian mana ever return in large amounts?
sergiodelrio says... #4
legendofa except, there are two cards with phyrexian mana in Standard right now. Ajani, Sleeper Agent and Tamiyo, Compleated Sage
Hence, I conclude they're generally willing to print them, but I doubt there will be more free spells or color breaks (possible, but unlikely).
November 4, 2022 6:29 a.m. Edited.
DrukenReaps says... #5
I wouldn't say they've been cautious with it after something like this K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth lol. I wouldn't mind seeing more of it though. It's a fun mechanic.
November 4, 2022 8:15 a.m.
TheOfficialCreator says... #6
I think it's likely we'll see more cards with the Compleated mechanic, that punish you for paying life. It may not just apply to planeswalkers :D
November 4, 2022 8:39 a.m.
So far, Completed falls under the "mixed" casting cost, and I would say we'll never see anything like K'rrik again, but we just got the Defiler cycle, which more or less gives your permanents a light touch of Phyrexian mana cost. So variants are still coming. I guess my previous comment was referring to New Phyrexia-style costs, where it basically removed all color requirements.
November 4, 2022 10:21 a.m.
Phyrexian mana is an incredibly difficult to design mechanic that leads to a number of problematic gameplay issues. It tends toward being over powered, since life tends to be a far less valuable resource than preserving mana and it enables issues like allowing decks to easily slot in off-colour spells, removing the opportunity cost to which colours you are playing which constitutes such a fundamental core of the game.
I would be surprised if we see it return in the next Phyrexia set, or any other Standard set, as written. We might see something like Compleated (as TheOfficialCreator mentioned - though the rules for Compleated specify “loyalty counters”, so the rules would either have to be reworked or a new keyword created) that tries to mitigate some of the problems with Phyrexian Mana.
I also expect we might see a few new cards with Phyrexian mana in the Commander products being released with the new sets - Wizards can stretch a little bit there and take more risks with card design.
November 4, 2022 10:57 a.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #9
What's that scale called, that rates the overall power and impact of a mechanics within the game?
Is that the Storm Scale, named after the same ability?
Anyway, I wonder if Phyrexian mana is on that scale, somewhere? If it is, I wonder where it is rated at?
November 4, 2022 11:27 p.m.
TypicalTimmy - The Storm Scale rates how likely MaRo thinks something is going to return in a standard-legal set. Though some top-level entries are based on power (such as Storm and Dredge at 10), there are plenty of other ways to get a high ranking. Banding, for example, is a 10 because of its complexity and difficulty for players to understand. Ante is a 10 because it is likely against real world gambling laws. Fear is a 10 because it was supplanted by Intimidate.
Phyrexian Mana is a 9, meaning “I never say never, but this would require a minor miracle.” It is one of those that is ranked high for its power, though the difficulty it presents to the design team when trying to balance certainly is a factor.
November 4, 2022 11:57 p.m.
plakjekaas says... #11
Artifact lands like Treasure Vault and Phasing like Guardian of Faith or Slip Out the Back were also 9 on the storm scale, it's not that great of an indicator for what's actually printed in Standard
November 5, 2022 3:42 a.m.
The new Defiler cycle (Defiler of Vigor, Defiler of Dreams, etc) already grants phyrexian mana to your spells in that color. Worth peaking at
November 8, 2022 5:42 p.m.
Looking for an old comment, found an old thread, one necro-comment later...
Phyrexian mana exists as an activation cost in March of the Machine. I'm going to indulge myself in a little back patting for my prediction. Not a lot, since I underestimated how much it would be used, but I did guess how it would be used.
Most of my predictions are dead wrong, so I'm happy with a partially right one, even if it seems easy in hindsight.
April 18, 2023 2:43 a.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #14
I feel that. I'm still riding high on how insanely close my depiction for Kolga and Yidaro was, lol
April 18, 2023 3:04 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #16
legendofa, I am very disappointed with how severely WotC has reduced Phyrexian mana in power and prevalence, compared to its original appearance, and also sad that it may potentially never return, as there was so much unexplored design space with it.
April 18, 2023 8:58 p.m.
DemonDragonJ It was fun to play with for a set, but it did break the game pretty hard. I'm not surprised it got pulled this far down.
April 18, 2023 9:41 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #18
legendofa, how did Phyrexian mana break the game, in your mind?
April 20, 2023 8:52 p.m.
The way I mentioned it in my first response up top. It gave colors access to effects that don't even pretend to respect the color pie. Cheap removal, reliable creature filtering, and free counterspells were the worst offenders, but Mutagenic Growth and Noxious Revival are honorable mentions.
legendofa says... #2
I doubt it. It gave a lot of freedom to colors, importing effects that, if priced normally, would be serious breaks. Dismember and Mental Misstep are probably the biggest offenders (how would you cost them in ?), but all of them are potentially problematic.
One or two in a Horizons set are possible, but I would be very surprised to see it in any large scale.
Possibly, there could be mixed regular and Phyrexian mana in a casting cost, or Phyrexian mana as an activation or trigger payment, but not for casting.
November 3, 2022 10:46 p.m.