How do pros do their mana curve (no percentages)
Modern Deck Help forum
Posted on Jan. 29, 2016, 2:56 a.m. by WickedVampire
When building a deck what format do you guys usually go by like when i build a deck i stick by a rule to have at least 8 1 drop spells in the deck then 4 2 drops then the rest goes accordingly
Or when doing Ramp i tend to keep out 2-3 lands from the 24 and have at least 12 Ramp creatures in the deck, i'm trying to get better at deck building, so i wanna know how other people go about brewing up a deck! <3
asasinater13 says... #3
generally you make the deck's shell out of what you want it to do, put in all of your auto-includes, look at your pile of cards and decide if there are any issues (for instance, being too top-heavy, or having low finishers), then filling in the rest of the deck with removal, then draw spells/filtering (higher in importance for a combo deck), and then looking to see where you're missing spots on your curve and which cards can fit there that either further your strategy or make some bad or barely favorable match ups better. I usually tend to fill in my spots with cards to make bad match ups less bad, but I am not a pro and it may be better to just use those spots to "guarantee" winning against decks that were 60/40 and using heavily sideboarding against the unfavorable match ups.
and I want to point out that what leaplath said is very true. it's rarely going out to build "generalized aggro deck" usually it's "I found a card interaction/group of cards that work well together and want a deck to best benefit this, what do I do?" and you put the cards that you're looking to use into a pile and decide how to best support that interaction or group of similar effects. Like if you wanted a ramp deck you have to decide what to ramp into, and whether you're trying to be a creature dork deck, tron, eldrazi, or a Fertile Ground/Arbor Elf/Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx style deck.
January 29, 2016 3:35 a.m.
WickedVampire says... #4
Well lets say we set aside the archetype and the card pool's and say for a mid-range deck what should a basic mana curve look like? (ex: ammount of 1 drops, 2 drops ect) to have a smooth start and glide into your mid-rangey cards I just like to see examples so i can think of it when im building a deck myself (like the 24, 12, 24 rule for building a basic 60 card deck) it'll help me look at the curve and say well okay i need at least this many 1 drops to have a good starting chance then tweak it from there so just throw out a basic mana curve for a mid-range deck o.o
January 29, 2016 3:48 a.m.
RoarMaster says... #5
I think what they are trying to say is that there isnt really such a thing as a set number of cards at what cost in an 'average midrange'(or any type)deck, since really each decks curve is tailored specifically to each different deck itself.
January 29, 2016 4:27 a.m.
I think you are shooting yourself in the foot a little with your "(no percentages)" as statistics is a big part of not only building a deck but playing it well
If you know what you want your deck to do and what cards it wants to draw etc you can use statistics (percentages) to A, plan your turns and plays better and B, fine tune your deck to do better what you want it to do
If you are sat there saying I need to draw a land next and work out that its a certain chance that you do but that chance isn't what you want it to be then maybe you need to add another one or two of that card
It avoids times when you go all in on a turn with the hope that your next draw is what you need is a burn spell, however a player that knows his deck and its a 9% chance that the next card is a burn spell thus its a bad move and going all in just relies on blind luck to win
As a magic player maths is your friend and if you don't embrace that it is very hard to advance into the top tiers of players
In answer to your question however, like said before it depends on the deck itself. Burn for example uses mostly 1 and 2 drops and less lands because it wants to draw more damage and rage. However a control deck doesn't need to draw threats every turn and want wide mana availability so drawing a land on a turn you say "land, go" is not a bad option
Best think to do is playlets with different configurations and find one that works for you and suits your play style, there really is no "right" answer for your question
January 29, 2016 5:10 a.m.
Yeah everyone ought to be using statistics to plan out their mana curve and game plan.
January 29, 2016 5:36 a.m.
i look at it. put in some shit, and look at it again. if it is midrange it should have a few 1 drop dorks, a bunch of 2-3 mana stuff, and some 4 mana stuff. combo, you need the combo, and counterspells, so mostly 2 mana, 3 mana and 4 mana with spell snare and spell pierce. Aggro is usually nothing above 2 mana for me.
January 29, 2016 7:22 a.m.
WickedVampire says... #9
This is a midrange Abzan deck i brewed up a few days ago like the way the deck sits now is it to clunky to you guys or does it just need a few tweaks?
January 29, 2016 11:39 a.m.
I usually build around what my plays each turn are going to be, based on what archetype I'm playing.
For example, if I'm playing an aggro deck, I want to curve out and use all of my mana each turn. That means I need to cast something on turn 1, start dealing damage/playing more threats on 2, and then brace for Wrath of Gods and removal on 3 and 4 while maintaining pressure. This means having lots of low mana creatures and burn spells. If I'm casting something after turn 2 that costs more than 2 mana, it needs to be either resilient or game-ending (Collected Company, Etched Champion, etc.).
So in the case of control and midrange, I'm not always looking to play a threat on turn 1 as much as I am focusing on taking out my opponent's threat. Or I'm building up my resources. Playing Godless Shrine into play tapped on turn 1 when I'm going first is perfectly fine if it means I have Path to Exile or Abrupt Decay available on turn 2 with Liliana of the Veil ready to go on 3. If my opponent doesn't do anything, I'm okay with sitting on my removal and just playing lands. Even though I'm not casting spells, I'm still advancing my board state.
That being said, you have to consider what it is you're doing each turn. Even though Cloudshift is one mana, it's not a turn one play because it likely won't even have a target on turn 1. Likewise, you may not always cast Lightning Bolt on turn 1. You probably shouldn't cast it on turn one unless you're killing something with it or you're playing the aggro role as a midrange deck vs. a control deck (but in that case, you still want to cast your hand disruption/creatures first).
So when I'm making a deck, I'm more concerned about what my lines are. This is especially true outside of Standard and Limited where games in Modern are much faster. If my 1-drop is Cloudshift, my 2-drop is Daybreak Coronet, and my only creatures are 3 or more mana, I'm likely going to lose each game because I haven't done anything for the first several turns! Even worse, now my 4-drops are fighting with my "1-drop" and "2-drop" because I can likely only cast one of them in a turn. My Cloudshift and Daybreak Coronet in this shit-tier deck are essentially 4-mana spells, because I won't be able to do anything with them until turn 4 and they tie up all my resources.
MollyMab says... #2
It depends on the deck really.
A lot of compmodern decks have auto includes.
For example, Scapeshift always ran 4 copies of its namesake, 4 Sakura-Tribe Elder, 4 Search for Tomorrow, 4 Remand, 4 Stomping Ground, 4 Steam Vents, 2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle and 2 Mountain. From there you play some number of Misty Rainforests, Breeding Pool, Cryptic Command, Snapcaster, Farseek, Anticpate/Peer Through Depths etc. But you always play them. This then leaves you with about 6-8 flex slots for cards like Bolt, Anger of the Gods, Farseek etc.
They don't just play "an aggro deck". They play an archetype that has numerous BIS cards and tweak their sideboard and flex slots generally.
January 29, 2016 3:23 a.m.